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Sonic upgrades

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Also I like to play Matt's game on Riders' canoncity. So he thinks Riders isn't canon because it has futuristic cities and tech right and Sonic should NEVER have futuristic settings and items at all. So you know what that means? Sonic Heroes, Sonic Forces, SA2 (Space Colony ARK), Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic CD, and pretty much almost every Sonic game out there should NOT be canon. Since they all have some futuristic settings and tech in almost all of them that it don't make sense. OH Sonic Riders isn't canon because Sonic has different shoes and gear on. SA2 is DEFINITELY not canon since Sonic wore those Soap Shoes and we never see him wear them ever since. Not only that, but Sonic also had different voice actors. Meaning all those games from each era the voice actor starred in should not be connected to one another.

You see where I'm getting at this? It's ridiculous. That's why I made that comment about Matt earlier: To show off his claims and arguments are ridiculous and lame and anyone with some common sense can easily debunk it. It's like he desperately wants to lowball Sonic just for the heck of it and I'm getting sick and tired of people like him doing that all the time when it comes to vs debates. It's like they don't want to see a strong Sonic period. Like really?
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
I don't agree with 5-A. Just 5-B.
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I do. And a lot of evidence suggest that too. Also I like a High 6-A to 5-B Sonic since not only it's the best of both worlds, but he does have a clean consistency of alternating the two tiers with his feats. I mean he's not far off with having Tier 6 feats compared to Tier 5 feats in my honest opinion.
 
Amexim said:
Chill. Don't get banned Mr President.
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I am chill. I just wanted to debunk Matt's argument and showcase why it's ridiculous. It's just arguing. It's what we literally do for a living on this site. Nothing completely hateful in my comments whatsoever. I just think you guys take them to heart at times and not understand them completely at a philosophical level.
 
I mean he's VERY vocal on his opinions. I wish more people were like him. That's why I idolize him and why I debate like him. He's just confidence and not only that. He's very respectful once you get to see and/or know him. He's not even that bad like many assume he is. I like him more than just some political icon, everyone...
 
It's best to wait for Matt to come back. Anyway, I think the Chaos Emerald/Gaia Temple calc is the main thing that needs discussion. The rest have been either not a direct 5-B feat, or is an overtime attack that would one shot the cast. Matt might have other things to say about it. I normally would but I'm tired from RL work.

Also, Vermin Supreme for President.
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
No offense to Violet but I can jus imagine President Trump is typing all of his responses lmao XD
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I read his comments in Trumps voice, but lets not get off topic lol.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It's best to wait for Matt to come back. Anyway, I think the Chaos Emerald/Gaia Temple calc is the main thing that needs discussion. The rest have been either not a direct 5-B feat, or is an overtime attack that would one shot the cast. Matt might have other things to say about it. I normally would but I'm tired from RL work.
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Same plus pride month stuff. But I was planning on adding those comments since yesterday. Cause tbh, I started this back in the 4-A rebuff thread and I never really got my say in this until now.
 
I also like how no one even gave any kudos or anything to say about my second, let alone first comment much but a simple sentence or me talking in a way that sounds similar to a political icon. I feel a little disrespected. A little mind you.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It's best to wait for Matt to come back. Anyway, I think the Chaos Emerald/Gaia Temple calc is the main thing that needs discussion. The rest have been either not a direct 5-B feat, or is an overtime attack that would one shot the cast. Matt might have other things to say about it. I normally would but I'm tired from RL work.
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Temporarily surviving the Colors black hole is fine and makes sense.

A single Chaos Emerald splitting the planet is fine, as there's no proof Eggman had all seven.

Emerl being stated to blow up the planet is fine. There'd be no reason to assume that him destroying the entire planet isn't a supporting baseline 5-B feat, especially when the planet would've likely been destroyed within such a quick timeframe considering the urgency of the entire situation.

The Eggrobo gathering power from something that's stated to blow up the planet without leaving a trace is fine.

Even if you want to discredit Master Core: ABIS, those feats are still valid. You can't just say "those feats are invalid" and expect us to follow along. Actual debating is needed, not just your word or a quick half-hour back and forth that only solidified some beliefs of 5-B. Not trying to be rude, but this has happened too much for me to not say something.

However, I completely respect that you came back from work and you're tired. I'm not trying to bash you or anything btw, so I hope you aren't taking offense from anything I'm saying, but it always seems that there's little to no discussion on the validity of some of these feats and it's instead just "that's not valid, so no."
 
I apologise. I meant no disrespect.
 
@Shake, I have elaborated above the problems with those feats; and actually there is proof that Eggman has all 7 at the beginning of Sonic Advance 3. Don't just watch the intro, but the plot of the game literally outright confirming he had 7 and taken them across the planet. As well as the fact that if 1 was enough to cause the planet split, then 1 would normally be enough to also reverse the effect. Requiring all 7 Chaos Emeralds to reverse in effect assumed to do by one makes no sense at all.

Emerl simply said destroy the planet, it never said blow up the planet. And it was Final Egg Blaster that was going to blow it up, not Emerl himself. Eggrobo was going to eventually blow up the planet by over time absorbing the entire energy. But you defeat him before he has a chance to avoid all if it and so far simply absorbed all life on the planet. Which is a High 6-A feat.

The Colors Black Hole doesn't even look legit for 5-B. And he escaped the Space Station before it blew up. Not to mention the Space Station blowing up would be a chain reaction. Gaia Temple feat is the only one that seems fine, but prefer to here Matt's input before we continue.

Also, I'm not offended at all. And I do appreciate your concern.
 
Andytrenom said:
You don't ask for kudos dude
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Not actual kudos, stan. I mean say anything worthwhile about them or actually talk about them rather what I sound like or simple senteces that don't add much weight to them. Context is a necessity.
 
@DDM I'll ask this again, where in the game does it state or show Eggman having all the Emeralds? Just because all 7 Emeralds were used to restore the planet doesn't change that it was a single Emerald shown to be splitting the planet. Look at it this way, you can use a bomb to destroy a city but you cannot use it to restore a city.

Destroy or blow up, it doesn't make a difference. Emerl was stated by Gerald Robotnik to be capable of destroying the whole planet. Blatantly 5-B. Emerl using the FEB has nothing to do with its capabilities that were stated by Gerald and Shadow.

Said energy Eggrobo absorbed would blow up the whole planet without leaving a trace. Nothing High 6-A about that, it's 5-B.

How is a black hole that can destroy the amusement park a chain reaction?
 
@DDM Even then, we have no definitive proof that he used the power of all seven to split the planet. It even says he used Chaos Control to do it, so he wouldn't even necesarilly need all seven to do it either.

Emerl absorbed the residual energy of the FEB, awakening his original programming and causing him to go nuts. This causes him to go a little berserk, and the context of the story emphasises that it'll happen fast. Sonic canonically has to beat him in umder 30 seconds or boom, that's it. So the FEB causing it doesn't make any sense, as Sonic doesn't interact with the FEB to stop it whatsoever (at least from my knowledge). Yet even if you don't go by this, Emerl has a Tier 5 statement here and here, where he's stated capable of (or possibly in the latter's case) destroying the planet. Nothing suggest a slow amount of time within the context, and some don't even mention a timeframe at all.

Even if you don't accept that, they're capable of defeating Emerl after he absorbed the power of a Chaos Emerald to amplify itself. So even with the potential scenario that Emerl wasn't going to destroy the planet in that battle, this proves that fighting Chaos Emerald-empowered beings isn't just from Chaos. Shadow does it here.

Colors' Black Hole isn't a chain reaction, it causes an implosio that destroys it. Eggman even uses the energy to create the Nega-Wisp armor, and we all know how Sonic beat it to a pulp. And yes, the larger ones are planet sized. The creators even talk about how large it is, so none of that "it's small so no" business.

Also, thank you for being understanding! Even when debating, I do like to stay grounded and friendly with you all.
 
Anyone who's played Sonic Advance 3 should know that Eggman already was in possession of all 7 Chaos Emeralds at the very beginning of the game; it would be arbitrary to assume he only had one just because the cutscene only showed one. Each and every Emerald is founded by taking it from Eggman's possession. Chaos Control is a teleportation/reality warping ability, and they use Chaos Control to also restore it. Why would all 7 be needed to fix something 1 would cause if Chaos Emeralds should be equally capable of fixing what they destroy? It literally makes no sense unless both feats were done using all 7.

Those statements simply say "Destroy the world" It never elaborates how he destroys the world and it would be the same thing as saying Kid Buu is 3-A or that all Yu Yu Hakusho S Class Demons are 5-B.

The implosion is a chain reaction that's triggered. Similar to a 9-B explosive causing a Building sized explosion when it triggers the engine of a airplane. Sonic doesn't actually tank it either; let alone the epic center of it and would thus not scale.

I never argued that Eggrobo blowing up is 5-B, only that the feat itself wouldn't quite scale to Sonic from the context alone. Just that he has yet to perform it and was still in the middle of building the energy necessary to do so. But was thwarted before he could do so.

Going to sleep for now.
 
The comparisons made don't hold water. Kid Buu being 3-A in a series where a 4-B feat reigned supreme is an obvious outlier. Emerl having a Tier 5 statement where other Tier 5 feats actually happen makes more sense than the comparisons you made, in which those are obvious outliers and this one's consistent.

Even if the implosion is a chain reaction, it doesn't hinder the fact that Hyper-Go-On energy fueled it and the Black Hole itself. The Wisps also cancel it out as well, and Sonic can harness their power when he transforms with them. Sonic doesn't tank the Black Hole for an extended period, but he isn't immediately killed when being sucked in despite him not having assistance until the Wisps help him shortly after. The epicenter argument doesn't make much sense, as it would logically negate durability and kill anything in the epicenter.

No, Eggman states he used the same energies for his Eggrobo and states he even supercharged it from said energies with all the time he got from faking his death. There was no interruption here.

I'm going to bed as well. See you guys later!
 
Japanese Lost World Eggboi states the Egg Robo mecha's current destructive output is immeasurable when he gets his hands on it.

And just in that game he could clearly measure and concieve of the planet getting blown away without a trace by an explosion.

Honestly don't see how the hypergenius wouldn't rate its output as ambigiously higher than 5-B here if he can recently determine the output of an earth exploding scenario if we are citing that instead of the English version.
 
Well, up until Forces. Then he just stopped giving a care and wanted to fry the surface and rule the ashes.

Not like he really gave much of a care to the huge portion of the world decomposing during Lost World tho.
 
Area of effect wise the Egg-robo's attacks being planet level are as believeable as them previously being continental busting or whatever.
 
And Eggman only wanted to absorve part of the planet's energy with the Extractor, the Zeti were who used it to absorve in it's enterity, Eggman's says that there was still left areas for him to rule over once he recovered his machine from the Deadly Six
 
Theuser789 said:
Infinite's Sun would only afect the resistance because the Ruby illusions are only real to the target of the Ruby
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It would've fried the surface as that was Eggman plan to reduce the world to nothing but ashes. The Ruby being able to affect selected targets is why Eggman wouldn't have died from the sun falling right on top of him.
 
Yeah, the Ruby illusions are only real for the people inside it's area of efect, people outside of it feel nothing
 
@Matt We're still waiting for your input on the Sonic Unleashed calc. That aside, I've offered actual debunks for at least one of his arguments (specifically the Eggrobo), but I guess those don't mean anything huh?

@Zamasu Speaking of the Eggrobo, him not wanting to blow up the planet doesn't really hinder his AP whatsoever. We're talking about the same boss who created a one-time 5-A Psuedo-Black Hole, slammed it into the ground, and everything was fine and dandy.

@DDM I forgot to talk about your first point so I'll get to that now. A Chaos Emeraid destroying the planet with Chaos Control but being unable to fox it isn't unbelievable. I can take a baseball bat and smash a vase, but can I use that same baseball bat to fix it? And yes, I know that I'm comparing a mystical gem to a baseball bat sutting in my living room, but the point is that the power to destroy doesn't mean it's as easy to fix.
 
The Smashor said:
Sonic also has the feat of a single emerald being 5-B.
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And the series has portrayed Sonic and co. as being able to keep up with people who were empowered by them. Team Sonic did so with Chaos 1-4, Sonic and Shadow have both done it with Emerl, Sonic defeating Ultimate Emerl (nkt an actual example, just a supporting 5-B feat), etc.

You can literally discredit every other feat if you want to (which won't make any sense because some of them are actually valid, but hey). But fighting beings empowered by the Chaos Emeralds is consistent.
 
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