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Sonic upgrades

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The Single Emerald feat is questionable and the Emeralds themselves are inconsistent. And I strongly doubt that Sonic can harness the same amount of power from an Emerald just by holding it as Eggman can with giant complex machines.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The Single Emerald feat is questionable and the Emeralds themselves are inconsistent. And I strongly doubt that Sonic can harness the same amount of power from an Emerald just by holding it as Eggman can with giant complex machines.
Click to expand...
On this note actually

Apparently the power of emeralds varies depending on the strength of one's heart or something

So scaling base characters to them is gonna be incredibly iffy
 
1. Emerl's statement of destroying the planet happened from Gerald Robotnik 50 years before the Egg Blaster was a thing.

2. Sonic got hit by the black hole after it had sucked in a huge portion of the Interstellar Amusement Park. It's also not a chain reaction, seeing as one explosion of Nega-Wisp energy is what created the black hole.

But hey I'd love Universal base characters based on one Chaos Emerald having enough power to repel the Time Eater.
 
Well if I pushed it even further and really wanted to go on the wank side I could scale one Chaos Emerald to the Preciousstone.

Bam, Universal+ Base Sonic.
 
The argument isn't that Sonic can harness the Emerald by holding it.

The argument is that they were able to contest with Chaos after he absorbed up to 4 Emeralds and can repeatedly contest with Emerl after he absorbs one.

That's excluding Emerl's 5-B statements, the supercharged Eggrobo, Sonic temporarily surviving the Black Hole, the Nega-Wisp Armor that shares the energy of said Black Hole, and ABIS. While ABIS is being contested, those others are as clear as you can get.

Why is the Emerald fest "iffy"? Literally nothing is wrong with it.
 
Matthew voiced his opinion by calling the calc iffy, but gave no further context as to why.

No disrespect meant but if that's his opinion, he's just gonna have to elaborate why when he has time. I'm pretty sure we already talked about and cleared up everything that made the calc iffy in the first place, so everything seems to be good. Gravity had no part in it, Dark Gaia wasn't struggling with the continent, the math was checked and even corrected, and it was confirmed to all be the Emerald's doing.
 
I guess people are still iffy that the emeralds are tier 5 on their own and that Sonic scales to them.
 
@Ultimate Then people just need to say that instead.

If there's nothing wrong with the calc and the problem is scaling, then argue for the scaling rather than the calc. It'd be discrediting a calc and calling it incorrect for no reason other than to prevent scaling from it, which isn't a really fair practice.

Am I saying that's what's happening? No, I'm not pointing fingers at anybody in this thread so I wanna make that clear. But if that's what somebody is gonna aim to do, it only makes that side seem as if they're doing it on purpose to prevent an upgrade.

Remember, kids. Nobody likes bias! ;)
 
Sorry. Just got a bit annoyed that Matt responded like that after accusing me of being hostile earlier.
 
@HERO It happens, don't wirry.

@Everyine Bear with me folks.

I have to complete my second essay (which i haven't started) that's due tomorrow, so I'll be a little stagnant in activity until I'm done. I'll pop in here and there, but I gotta put school first.

See you guys later!
 
Btw y'all, I rewatched and replayed the Chaos 6 fight back in Sonic Adventure. You know those ice weapons Eggman sent out? And how you need to freeze Chaos with those weapons? People say those are his weakness but there's 3 problems with that.

1. Anyone who doesn't resist ice manipulation can get frozen solid easily. It was also not stated those were his weakness. Which brings me to my next point.

2. The ice robots were use to make Chaos 6 a solid mass. Making an intangible being a solid isn't the same as weakening it. It was just to froze him in place and to hit him since the guy is made up of water.

3. It wouldn't make sense for Eggman to throw ice robots like that clumsily hurting Chaos 6. It was meant for Chaos to help defeat Sonic more likely. This isn't much of a problem and more of me pointing something out. Just a thought.

Also Chaos 6 can break free easily after getting frozen. You think a guy supposedly weak to ice won't break free like that once he's frozen right? Plus it doesn't hurt him as the boss gauge doesn't deplete. Also you don't need to use ice or anything cold to stop Chaos 0, 2, 4, and Perfect Chaos to defeat him. So why is Chaos 6 the odd one out? It could be because the ice robots were just simple game mechanics.
 
Shadow casting his Emerald aside in Sonic Battle and instead relying on his normal attacks to hurt Emerl when previously he was using Chaos Energy attacks powered by his Emerald. Literally stated in the same game by him while he's holding one Emerald:

"Shadow: Hmph! The only one who can use the true power of the "Chaos Emeralds" is me."

>Totally must be weaker than the positive power of 1 Emerald.

Ya no.
 
JJSliderman said:
Well if I pushed it even further and really wanted to go on the wank side I could scale one Chaos Emerald to the Preciousstone.
Bam, Universal+ Base Sonic.
Click to expand...
You literally did try to push Universal Base Sonic thanks to Sonic Shuffle or whatever the **** it was.
 
I don't see how Chaos Emeralds would be 2-C at their peak individually since you'd be incorrectly downscaling their feats when they are specifically stated to be become stronger than the sum of their parts when gathering 2 or more in the same vicinity. You can't just divide by 7 lol.

If they are separated, individually, they are capable of what the calc listed. Shadow discarding the true power of 1 Emerald and stating he doesn't need it is pretty obvious powerscaling here. 7 required to fight 2-C Egg Wizard / Solaris and shiz. Kinda the reason why powerscaling to more than 1 is possible even due to the accumulative energy shenanigins with Chaos 2 and higher.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Also, bringing up the Sonic Colors "Black Hole" is silly since it would have explicitely killed Sonic, who had to run from it to survive. Sonic doesn't scale to the black hole feats being attributed to make him 5-B.
Click to expand...
Tbf, Sonic is a very durable boy that barely phases from a lot of damage. He's able to bust through ice without phasing, a bunch of terrain with ease, survive the egg carrier exploding while holding Elise, and bust through an Eggman Fortress in Bullet Station at the end of the level. So Sonic not getting phased by the black hole ain't far-fetched and just means he's resistant to black holes if that makes any sense.
 
I still agree with both my one sentiments and the details Matt gave even if his a minor. And to elaborate upon his points, a lot of Chaos Emeralds feats are actually done in combinations of Chaos Emeralds AND something else, not just Chaos Emeralds. I'll explain in more detail in the next couple of Paragraphs.

First of all, feats done by Eclipse Cannon are done by the combined power of the cannon itself and enhancements from Chaos Emeralds. Not just the Cannon, which would be far weaker without Emeralds, or the Chaos Emeralds which isn't always channeled to the same level when absorbed by someone or something else Example was the 5 Chaos Emeralds having a 6-B calc, 6 having a Low 5-B recalc, and all 7 having statements about destroying the planet.

For the Gaia Temples feat, it's more so the Chaos Emeralds, and the Gaia Temple's combined power that did the 5-B feats and not the Emeralds alone. The Gaia Temples are the Temples sealing away the powers of Dark Gaia long ago and thus would have power of their own. And what happens for each Gaia Temple is that Sonic places an Emerald on the temple to restore a Chaos Emerald as it was drained by Eggman to use on his Chaos Cannon to awaken Dark Gaia. Dark Gaia was enhanced by the depleted Emeralds channeled by Eggman to perform his 5-A feat.

Now as for Chaos, no version of Chaos with the exception of Perfect Chaos as much of a feat. And that feat was him destroying the planet with a Flood Noah's Ark style; which would only come out as High 6-A. He's currently 5-A via backwards scaling from Dark Gaia, which is fine for now. But it does explain the inconsistent nature of Chaos Emeralds.

And as Matt said, it's far too vague to assume Eggman only used one Chaos Emerald to split the Earth. Not only is it more so the Emerald combined with the Death Egg's power that did it, but the Death Egg regularly requires all 7 to even perform any planetary feats. Exception was in Sonic Battle, but that's another issue altogether. And to address the point, "Requiring all 7 to fix it isn't contradictory if it only took 1 to destroy". Except the Chaos Emeralds are reality warping tools where its creation and restorations feats should be equal to its Chaos and Destruction feats. And that means, if one can destroy something, then it should only require 1 to fix it. If it took 3 or 4, it should require 3 or 4 to fix it. If all 7 are required to fix something destroyed, then it should require all 7 to cause said level of destruction in the first place.

And we already gave our two cents on the Sonic Colors, Eggrobo, Emerl, ect. Especially anything related to black holes.
 
Don't really see anything wrong with Emerl, ABIS, Semi-Perfect Dark Gaia, or the Gaia Temples feat.

Eggrobo and Sonic Colors feats maybe.
 
Again, The Gaia Temple's do nothing but return a singular Chaos Emerald to their original state. The Gaia temples don't do anything else.

"If we act now, we may be able to restore the planet by returning power to the Chaos Emeralds. Sonic, you must travel to each of the temples listed in the Gaia Manuscripts. The planet's power will restore the Chaos Emeralds, and in turn the Chaos Emeralds will restore the planet and help it heal naturally."

It doesn't say the Chaos Emeralds and the Gaia Temple in the last line. Just the directly states the Chaos Emeralds restoring the planet. Its literally spelled out for us.
 
And it restores the Emeralds by channeling the energy absorbed by Dark Gaia back to the Chaos Emeralds, while also breaking the seal containing Dark Gaia.
 
@DDM In order:

6 Emeralds having a 6-B feat is such an oddball when compared to everything else that I don't think it's even worth mentioning, but I'd actually want a link to the calc to see it for myself. 6 Emeralds having a Low 5-B recalc is also the time where Eggman blasted the moon to prove a point that he was essentially the one with all the cards to play, and that they all better start listening.

DaBoi/Mephistus seem to have covered this.

I have no recollection of talking about Perfect Chaos, so I think that might've been directed at somebody else.

My main issue is Emerl and the Eggrobo.

These guys have plain old 5-B statements that are ignored because... Why? There's no indication of a slow timeframe that warrants a High 6-A Ultimate Emerl, it absorbs a Chaos Emerald to amplify itself within Battle throughout multiple stories (this particular one ties in with a 5-B Emerald), and he has a 5-B statement that comes from the time of Gerald Robotnik. You argued that it was the FEB that would've caused the destruction of the Earth, but that doesn't even make any sense in the context of the game.

The Eggrobo was literally stated to be supercharged with energy from the Extractor that would've made the Earth "vanish without a trace". That's very blatantly 5-B, and I'd like for you to repeat why exactly it's so invalid of you don't mind. I don't wanna have to find it in all of this mess.

It just seems as if you're writing it off some of the feats because you argued for it once so you don't need to do it again despite my rebuttals. I offered rebuttals on Eggrobo, Emerl, and the Colors black hole (although sure, you can argue that one), yet it's as if my counterarguments aren't being read.
 
Emerl is never stated to "Blow Up" the planet, only that he would destroy the planet. Our standard statements for destroying the planet with no elaborate context or on screen demonstration would be destroying all life on the planet unless it outright says they would explode the planet.

And Eggrobo does have the blow up the planet. Making the Earth, "Vanish without a trace" is still too vague. And says the extractor is going to eventually, explode and blow up the planet, not that it already has enough energy to do that. And there's no proof that Eggrobo absorbed all of it.

They aren't ignored, but they're literally circular and repetitive.
 
If it said "destroy the world", then maybe it could be seen as life-wiping, but the fact that it says planet and the fact that Emerl caused physical destruction to massive chunks of the ARK with just one Emerald makes it seem more likely it's actual...destroying the planet.

You do have a point about it not absorbing all the Extractor's energy though.
 
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