Sonic Shuffle conclusion + 06 revision

[ShakeResounding]

No Super Form has Invulnerability listed on their profile. There'd need to be a CRT on it if people are seriously considering the Super Trio not dying from Solaris is due to that.

 

[BlastX]

Would their Invulnerability let them tank 2-B attacks then?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@inverted I'd like to see your explanation for phase one.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

No Super Form has Invulnerability listed on their profile. There'd need to be a CRT on it if people are seriously considering the Super Trio not dying from Solaris is due to that.

Completely agree and this is why some consider the Solaris fight an "outlier" despite there being multiple tier 2 feats/scaling in the franchise.

 

[BlastX]

Sorry, got it wrong before

Would their Invulnerability let them tank 2-B attacks then?

 

[ShakeResounding]

That's the thing. Unless they have some outrageously good invulnerability, that's just their durability.

 

[Wokistan]

Honestly, invulnerability (along with one shot kill) shouldn't really be powers. It's just durability (or AP). Thread on that soon.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Why does One Hit Kill even exist? I wouldn't have that for squashing a bug would it?

 

[BlastX]

TBH I was wondering that too

 

[DMB_1]

One-Hit Kill is unspecified Death Manipulation or just any hax that kill the opponent with the one-shot.

A power that was supposed to be removed some time ago, but eh.

 

[Genericstickman]

One-Hit Kill seems like obvious game mechanics

 

[Wokistan]

OHK is either just hax, or that one attack has more AP than the rest of them. Let's not derail this thread though.

Edit: here's my thread

 

[The_Smashor]

They don't tank Solaris' attacks. They take damage, but they survive.

 

[GoldenBoyBlue]

Guess it's not gonna be that easy.

I agree with the 2-B upgrades.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Phase 1 is still 2-B. Eggman states it's destructive capapability & it's Super-Dimensional existence in this form.Stop using the anchoring as a crutch,there's no further context as to what it was in the first place.

Just to address this, Eggman never said "Solaris in his first form will destroy the multiverse". Eggman didn't even see Solaris from where he was standing because there was a bright light. It's then after the Supers fly up to Solaris where Eggman sees Solaris fully. He then states that he's "anchored to this dimension". If he's anchored against his own will and in a weaker form, put two and two together and you get Solaris was much weaker. You also gotta remember this is fiction, characters can move from tiers like a hot knife through butter because fiction doesn't care about our tiering system.

Also answer this, if weak spots aren't that much weaker than the actual body then why couldn't direct attacks from 3 Supers harm Solaris anyway?

 

[The_Smashor]

They don't tank Solaris' attacks. They take damage, but they survive.

 

[Elizhaa]

Zamasu Cha, Eggman stated it as Solaris was transforming in his form: https://youtu.be/tLN812WawlA?t=385

Dude was suprised when Solaris went to his second form highlighted that he did known about it: https://youtu.be/BSavm5JpCGo?t=209


I am not Solaris's fan but we literally went over similar point in the last Solaris' downgrade where his change was rejected. The only difference here is that Solaris is being argued in a different tiers, like Shadow said.

I believe that you conceided and made change to the Op about the topic: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2684332

• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...684778-20190210184141?diff=prev&oldid=4132006

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Eggman stated it as Solaris was transforming in his form: https://youtu.be/tLN812WawlA?t=385

Dude was suprised when Solaris went to his second form highlighted that he did known about it: https://youtu.be/BSavm5JpCGo?t=209

The only credibly Eggman has is his one statement about the timelines.

 

[Elizhaa]

Zamasu Cha, it is not contradicted.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Eggman somehow knows about the timelines and light shells but he doesn't know about his second form. Especially since Soleana is littered with Phoenix symbols, implying they know what true form Solaris looks like.

 

[Elizhaa]

Eggman somehow knows about the timelines and light shells but he doesn't know about his second form. Especially since Soleana is littered with Phoenix symbols, implying they know what true form Solaris looks like.

I don't think this he proves he known here. Besides, the statue could have been thing like Easter since it was rarely or if ever expended upon.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Eggman somehow knows about the timelines and light shells but he doesn't know about his second form. Especially since Soleana is littered with Phoenix symbols, implying they know what true form Solaris looks like.

Really? You're going to argue semantics like that?

The wings in Phase 2 do look like the antlers on Solaris's head in Phase 1.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Shadow Antlers. Nice try, the symbols would only have wings if that were the case.

@Elizhaa Easter? You're joking right? The beginning of the game Elise says that they're honoring their god.

These assumptions are far more absurd than mine.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Also answer this, if weak spots aren't that much weaker than the actual body then why couldn't direct attacks from 3 Supers harm Solaris anyway?

 

[Ryukama]

Matt and Zamasu seem to make sense but I'm fine with whatever most people agree on.

 

[Wokistan]

They can though, in phase 1.

This also sorta implies that Sonic isn't allowed to scale to 80% of the bosses in the series because he hits the glass of eggman's pod. Obviously the core is a weaker part of Solaris's body akin to a neck. What I'm not on board with is saying it's so much weaker that it's randomly 2-C. Hedgehogs don't scale in full, between needing to need Solaris and have the 3 fight it, but to say the core is 2-C because game which basically always used weak spots (gasp) has the boss beat by a weak spot.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I really tire of the argument that "Variable" means outliers can't exist. It's asinine and I've actually heard it used that if Super Sonic had a tier 1 feat, it wouldn't be an outlier because lolvariable.

Variable as it is currently used is trash.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Agreed, my dude. Tbh, Sonic's profile is a mess.

 

[Ryukama]

I really tire of the argument that "Variable" means outliers can't exist.

Lol I was thinking about typing the same thing.

Also isn't Hyper Sonic supposed to always be above Super Sonic?

 

[Elizhaa]

I really tire of the argument that "Variable" means outliers can't exist.

Lol I was thinking about typing the same thing.
Also isn't Hyper Sonic supposed to always be above Super Sonic?

Rip Doraemo!

I think Hyper Sonic is only superior in Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Universe). None of the game feats put the form close to Super Sonic.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Apparently, Hyper Sonic was written out of the canon.

 

[Wokistan]

Hyper so just sorta... Disappeared. He was in one game then dipped.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Iizuka said in a Q&A that Hyper Sonic is non-canon and the Super Emeralds are just a bonus add-on.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

I don't take what he says seriously since sometimes he contradicts or he doesn't give enough background for his info. I just don't trust him

 

[Ryukama]

The Super Emeralds are referenced in Sonic Mania though.

 

[ShakeResounding]

That's... A good point. Still, Hyper probably shouldn't be on the profile unless the form makes another appearance later on.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

Hyper Sonic served zero purpose in S3&K's plot,it's as non-canon as they come.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Ryu-Sama, Matt and Cal. Can you guys elaborate on the variable tier?

 

[Dark649]

Hyper Sonic is not-canon and should not added unless it appears again in a canon setting.

There is no need for a variable tier, the Super Trio just just ranges from Dark Gaia feat to the Eggwizard - Solaris if accepted, the emeralds can allow them to have every tier but we should only use Gaia [5], Time Eater [2], Eggwizard [2] and Solaris [2], The Sol Emerald possibly scales to the Chaos Emeralds - Solaris feat if accepted, but not for Blaze.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Pretty sure fixing the Sonic profile should be its own thread and Hyper Sonic has nothing to do with Sonic 06 moreover it's completely featless (aside from having "true" invincibility, having a AoE attack and being implied to be superior to Super).

Also there's no Hyper form in the Archie comics (that I'm aware of) then again Ultra is enough overkill already, again the hyper form should be discussed in a thread dedicated to fixing the Sonic profile (despite the obvious canon issues).

Let's not derail this thread shall we?.