Sonic Shuffle conclusion + 06 revision

[BlastX]

Eh, I settle for getting 2-B already

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

It's open to interpretation,Senhor.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@DarkDragon Airplanes and meteors are not only a lot bigger than 3'3" hedgehogs, but they're also not constantly changing directions in a fight so their movements are easier to track.

Solaris being anchored simply kept him from leaving Sonic's dimension. Even so, he isn't anchored in Phase 2 as he loses the light shells.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Matt That's... Not the most compelling argument.

How MFTL+ characters aren't lolblitzed when going up against an Immeasurable is beyond me. It's not as if Solaris was going easy on them when the diety's intent is to destroy everything, and it especially wouldn't go easy when the Super Trio are the last thing that's stopping that from happening.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Whelp this thread has only just started and I predict a lot of chaos ahead, I will change my neutral stance once I've seen the arguments from the other's for the time being I'm off.

I can't wait to see the answer to my original question.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

One colored name's opinion>>>>>>100 bluenames' opinions.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I'm overall neutral on this matter (although those who are for the upgrade have presented a more compelling argument imo, for the time being).

Btw how do MFTL+ characters manage to react as well as dodged attacks and keep up with a character with immeasurable speed? (Unbound Solaris).

That's the thing, they can't.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Guys, don't start thinks like that. Number of votes are irrelevant because that's the definition of quantity over quality. And higher colored names don't automatically mean our input is above everyone elses yes; but it is very important to consider that our reasoning skills is what got us colored names to begin with. We go by quality over quantity here; and it's not by colored names or number of people, but with solid reasoning skills that fit the standards of the rest of the site's policies is what gets approved.

As for how a character with Massively FTL+ speed keeping up with an Immeasurable speed character? I already explained above Solaris being anchored. Also, we can't give Sonic Immeasurable speed for reasons the Flash doesn't have Immeasurable combat speed and only travel speed, or Pre-Crisis Superman not having Immeasurable combat speed and only travel speed, or Zamasu not having Immeasurable attack speed. Also, as for; "Why would Solaris slow by a multitude uncountable infinity?" Darkseid says hi, Mister Mxy says hi.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Solaris being anchored simply kept him from leaving Sonic's dimension. Even so, he isn't anchored in Phase 2 as he loses the light shells.

And it also wouldn't somehow slow his reaction speeds by two infinites.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Solaris wasn't just anchored by light shells, he was in a weaker much form as well. So that alone debunks immeasurable speed and 2-B.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Phase 2 is stronger, but nothing implies Phase 1 is literally countless times weaker. That's ridiculous.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Shadow You should notify Sera to come here, broski.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Shake Maverick already did.

 

[Elizhaa]

Phase 2 is stronger, but nothing implies Phase 1 is literally countless times weaker. That's ridiculous.

I do agree.

Solaris wasn't just anchored by light shells, he was in a weaker much form as well. So that alone debunks immeasurable speed and 2-B.

I disagree. By this logic, it would that Sonic and the other would need to be countless time stronger to affect it and there no prove this.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Phase 2 is stronger, but nothing implies Phase 1 is literally countless times weaker. That's ridiculous.

And like I said before, phase 1 isn't just a first form it's a weakened state. If it was a natural transformation then the light shells wouldn't need to be destroyed for Solaris to transform.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Which is completely irrelevant. If Solaris was that much stronger in Phase 2, then why don't his attacks one-shot the hedgehogs?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Which is completely irrelevant. If Solaris was that much stronger in Phase 2, then why don't his attacks one-shot the hedgehogs?

Because it's a video game.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

...Ok so?

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

*slow clap*

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

...Ok so?

Game mechanics says hi. Sonic gets one shot by robo crabs lmfaoaoao.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sonic also dies from water.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Which is completely irrelevant. If Solaris was that much stronger in Phase 2, then why don't his attacks one-shot the hedgehogs?

Cough Cough

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

So are "weak points."

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

So are "weak points."

That doesn't matter when none of the Supers can't do shit to even harm Solaris directly. They only scale to phase one.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

"Can't do shit to even harm Solaris directly."

Then how did they defeat him hmmm?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

I agree with OP

 

[Elizhaa]

We do have the Non-Physical Interaction page; harming it is consciousness can still be a weak point but still scale to Solaris's durability?

I think all the hedgedogs got Non-Physical Interaction (Can tag the Hyudoros, Boos, and King Boom Boo); I don't see what I listed is impossible.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Because either plot or the core is many times weaker than the actual Solaris. 3 Supers were needed to fight phase one and they couldn't do a damn thing to phase 2 without hitting the weak spot. Either way they only scale to phase one because they don't just jump tiers mid battle.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Any way I'm going to sleep.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I agree with Matthew and Zamasu chan.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

"I guess it's not going to be that easy"-Super Sonic

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Zamasu Chan Or Phase 1 just isn't ridiculously weaker than Phase 2 because Solaris destroying all of existence is mentioned in Phase 1.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

By that logic, Exdeath would be 2-A and Immeasurable speed in base.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

It's destruction doesn't jump from 2-C to 2-B,It's 2-B to begin with via Eggman's statement,if that's what's being argued.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It's destruction doesn't jump from 2-C to 2-B,It's 2-B to begin with via Eggman's statement,if that's what's being argued.

This basically. Zamasu Chan is arbitrarily backscaling Solaris to inferior Sonic Rush bosses with baseline 2-C feats.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I... am Neutral for now.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

I agree to this.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Nobody scales to Solaris. The Super Sonics were explicitely hitting a weak point and doing no damage whatsoever prior to that.

The trio Supers are able to destroy Solaris phase 1 armor ...

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I can only post this one message, I'll be gone for a few hours. So you guys can keep discussing this while I'm gone.

It's not arbitrary Shadow, it's facts. Solaris was in a weakened state and anchored so he's unquantifiably lower than his full power but very very likely superior to the Egg Salamander and Wizard. This same exact thing happened to Ifrit, he was stated to destroy worlds then he was later stated to never be fully awakened. That's why Sonic nor Ifrit are 5-A.

- Solaris is stated to destroy the multiverse. - He's stated to be anchored. - His second form can't be harmed directly by the Supers. - The Supers are only able to harm his first form. - His second form has a convenient weak spot.

It's like the writer are saying "Hey we made Solaris too stronk so we had to make up some BS way for him to be defeated ┬»\_(Òâä) _/┬»"

And yet all who defend Sonic to the end fail to answer one simple question. Why the **** were two sets of some of the most powerful objects in the multiverse only destroying two parallel worlds and not the multiverse itself.

Goodbye, I'll see you guys in like 9 hours.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Just as I expected my question wasn't answered...

I explicitly asked how can only MFTL+ characters keep up with a character with "immeasurable" speed (Solaris Unbound) aka 2nd phase when Solaris is at full power or is it being assumed he's doesn't have immeasurable reaction's and combat speed too? (despite being no longer anchored by the light shells).

Also the weak point argument is "weak", if I remember correctly in SA2 it was stated in-game that Biolizard was "invincible" moreover conventional attacks don't work on him (you needed to hit his weak point aka his core to hurt him) and the same thing happened to Finalhazard the super hedgehogs couldn't harm him directly so they needed to hit his weak point yet they still scale to him so why doesn't this apply to Solaris?.

To answer Zamasu's question, it has being explicitly stated multiple times that the emeralds are sentient (plus it has already being agreed on that the emeralds have a variable tier of power). In Sonic Rush the Sol emeralds were forcibly taken into Sonic's dimension and it caused two dimensions to merge yet in Rush adventure it was heavily implied that the Chaos emeralds willingly brought Sonic & Tails to Blaze's dimension and surprise the dimensions weren't merging this time, I wonder why?.

Also both set's of emeralds have never been in the hands of someone who wanted multiversal destruction, this is just another tell but don't show fallacy where just because we don't "see" a feat, it doesn't mean a character/item/object etc isn't capable of it.

I'm switching my stance, I'm for the 2-B upgrades however I'm not convinced about the immeasurable speed (not until I get a coherent answer and using game mechanics as an excuse, is just a cop out).