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Sonic Revision Summary

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@Cal

Classic Sonic in the Modern Era is now a separate character. Do I have to explain Sonic Forces?
 
I'm going to repost somethings from the old thread, because people seem to have forgotten the arguments there:

"Also, to refrain my previous point.

https://youtu.be/TDI-mOibA6k?t=782

In the ending to Sonic Adventure, Perfect Chaos obtains the 7 Chaos Emeralds and drains them of all their power, living them as grey glowless stones. However, since he did this through negative thoughts / emotions (Pure rage and destruction), he didn't truly obtain the Emeralds' power. Sonic, drived by his positive emotions to his friends, is capable of using the drained Emeralds and becoming Super Sonic, and defeating Perfect Chaos.

The Chaos Emeralds were drained of their energies by Chaos, but Sonic was still capable of harnessing greater power than Chaos simply because his emotions were more positive and his will stronger."

"What part of the Variable Tier do you people don't understand? The Chaos Emeralds are a plot-device that converts the will, emotion and thoughts of the user into power.

There is a bazillion statements across the entire franchise about how the Chaos Emeralds can hold / grant "unlimited / infinite power". Now, obviously this is a hyperbole, the Chaos Emeralds can't make Sonic 1-C per say, but what this effectively means is that the power that the Emeralds' user gains is entirely dependant on their user's heart. This is explained ad-nauseum in the games."

"The servers are the 7 Chaos. Chaos is power... Power enriched by the heart. The controller is the one that unifies the Chaos."

— Tikal, Sonic Adventure
 
@Ryu

I can tell you 100% honestly that is a lore explanation that crosses over to all Sonic media.
 
Whether they are or aren't, Super Classic would be tier 2 if we're scaling from Time Eater, which would be an outlier given every other Super Classic feat. If you mean the games post Unleashed, Sonic episode 4 uses modern artwork rather than classic, and there's still Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World that don't show anything near tier 2, and at best show tier 5
 
@Howard

Do you want me to explain the Sonic Timeline?

Also, neither Colors, Episode 4 nor Lost World have Chaos Emeralds int he plot.
 
Super Classic Sonic has no other feats really. Personally that tier is a mystery to even me.

Sonic 4 means nothing. Super Sonic is a gameplay mechanic.

Super Sonic is not part of the story of Sonic Colors

Super Sonic is not part of the story of Sonic Lost World.

Mentioning them is meaningless.
 
Yet those are the only games post Unleashed other than Generations, which I just explained can't scale to Modern Sonic without scaling to Classic Sonic.

Also, mind doing so? Didn't really know there was one.
 
@Sera

I think that all Super Forms scale, I argued about this in the previous thread. Because of Generations, we know that Modern Super Sonic = Classic Super Sonic, but the game also explictly states that Modern Base Sonic is stronger, if I believe.
 
One more thing I'd like to say, regardless of if it seals the deal against me. I'm personally not convinced that it varies in power, as the statement that supports it is vague enough that an alternate interpretation is contradictory.
 
Sonic 4 doesn't even have Classic Sonic nor does Sonic Colors or Lost Worlds...
 
Actually, I'd like to go back to Kirby for a second. We don't even scale his Super Abilities to Magolor, despite that being their only appearance, and has no contradictions unlike base Kirby. Why is this different?
 
All Super Forms do not scale. As I stated only the elite few can harness to full power of emeralds. Sonic, Shadow, Silver, and Blaze (sol emeralds) are examples. I could argue Mephiles but...that's another story. Not every super form utilizes this full power. Super Tails and Super Knuckles in the Adventure Era for example. They only have glowing yellow auras.
 
Wait, are you talking to me or Matt on this one?

Also, just to be clear, I'm not against it because I hate Sonic or anything. I love Sonic...or at least Classic Sonic
 
Okay, here is the Sonic timeline:

Classic Era:

  • Sonic the Hedgehog: First game in the series.
  • Sonic CD: Second game in the series, takes place in an unspecified time between 1 and 2, because Sonic hasn't met Tails yet.
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2: Takes place after 1 and CD. Sonic and Tails meet, first time Super Emeralds appear.
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles: Sonic 3 happens immediately after Sonic 2, and Sonic & Knuckles immediately after 3.
  • Knuckles Chaotix: This game is a spin-off, but it doesn't contradict the plot so it can be used. Happens sometime after 3 & Knuckles.
  • Sonic MANIA goes here.
Transition Era:

  • Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1: Takes place after 3. Sonic has a modern design but the world is still very much classic.
  • Sonic the hedgehog 4 Episode 2: Takes place after Episode 1
Adventure Era:

The games in this era happen after everything that came before. However, the previous events from now on are only mentioned loosely, and the world is completely different. They no longer live in Mobius with Eggman as the only human. They live on Earth, in an expy of the United States, and there are plenty of humans.

  • Sonic Adventure: First Adventure Era game.
  • Sonic Adventure 2: Direct sequel to Adventure.
  • Sonic Heroes: Direct sequel to Sonic Adventure 2
  • Shadow the Hedgehog: Direct sequel to Sonic Heroes, but with Shadow as protagonist
  • Sonic Advanced 1 through 3, Sonic Battle, Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure all happen in this era, though it's unclear where exactly.
Second Transition:

  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2006: Yeah, that one. This is explicitly the last game of the Adventure Era (Though it contradicts the Spin-Off Rush Games). At the end of the game, there's another Cosmic Retcon that makes so that the game's events both happened but technically also never did.
Modern Era:

Once again, the theme, world and tone has changed. Events from Adventure to 06 are barely referenced, and generally only in loose terms. The world is again significantly more cartoony and the stories are more lighthearted.

  • Sonic Unleashed: Starts the Modern Era.
  • Sonic Colors: Happens after Unleashed.
  • Sonic Generations: Happens after Colors. And if it wasn't for this game, you could honestly argue that each Era takes place in it's own separate continuity.
  • Sonic Lost World: Happens after Generations.
  • Sonic FORCES goes here
Sonic and the Secret Rings, and Sonic & the The Black Knight are both spin-offs of the Modern Era.
 
I was responding to Matt. Some of my answers are actually starting to fall off. I'm tired...
 
The real cal howard said:
I'd like to go back to Kirby for a second. We don't even scale his Super Abilities to Magolor, despite that being their only appearance, and has no contradictions unlike base Kirby. Why is this different?
Click to expand...
Because Kirby fought against a tier 3 Magolor only in one game while Sonic fought tier 2 beings Solaris and Time Eater in two different games.
 
Don't compare Kirby with Sonic. The two require completely different forms of analysis. Peach-chan even knows that and she's 100% devoted to Nintendo
 
Sonic Forces is not part of the modern era. It's a stand alone game meant to extend Sonic's 25th anniversary.
 
Also, btw, the Sonic the Hedgehog producer confirmed in an interview that the World Rings are equal to the Chaos Emeralds.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
Sonic Forces is not part of the modern era. It's a stand alone game meant to extend Sonic's 25th anniversary.
Click to expand...
I think this game has also its own timeline because it was mentioned to be another reboot of the series.
 
It was never stated to be a reboot. Just stand alone. At least not a reboot in the sense that it starts everything all over again.
 
https://youtu.be/0nzxRoIX4QU?t=1203

Here is the timeframe. Takashi Iizuka (Head of Sonic Team and producer of most major Sonic Games) is asked why the Super Emeralds were created for Sonic 3 & Knuckles and if they would ever appear again. He gives a long answer that isn't at-all decently translated by the guy next to him. This is what he says translated:

"We started introducing more magical items like the chaos emeralds since Sonic 3 but all of them were just alternate chaos emeralds to bring about a different backstory to these games we did this with the Super Emeralds in Sonic and Knuckles but those were more powerful"
 
Not this again...

The World Rings are obviously comparable to the Chaos Emeralds but that's something I'll save for the blog. Not relevant in this thread.
 
Yeah, Sera already exposed the nonsense behind Darkspine Sonic > Super Sonic. Come on...that was the old thread.
 
That can be interpreted as they are all Maguffins or however it's spelled, just like the Chaos Emeralds. Besides, AU=\=Equal.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
Not this again...
The World Rings are obviously comparable to the Chaos Emeralds but that's something I'll save for the blog. Not relevant in this thread.
Click to expand...
Well, it gives another Tier 2 feat. So it helps.

Sonic has 3 Tier 2 feats, if I am not mistaken:

Beating the Time Eater, defeating Solaris with help, the Darkspine feat.
 
That's all subtle details. The entire point of this revision is not about Super Sonic and no one said anything about my Metal Sonic AP description suggestion. This thread is nothing but arguing about the same thing I explained millions of times quite logically, explained how it is coherent with Sonic Team's current management and have a blog that will go in-depth. Sesang-e...this is just retreading the old thread when it is meant to be a summary with a few additions...
 
There's also the Sonic Rush feats if I'm not mistaken which would bring the total to 5 feats within the Tier 2 range, but my memories shaky regarding those titles
 
This risks to turn into too many responses. Since Howard seems to be the only staff member who disagrees, I think that we can probably mostly go with Sera's suggestions.
 
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