• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sonic Infinite Speed Downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

Read my comic
VS Battles
Retired
40,446
12,915
I said I'd do it and I did.

Legit the only being that should have a speed that begins with I is Solaris...and Illumina but that's besides the point. I'll go into detail why, but the gist of it is that it's all based on outdated void standards.

Time Eater
Already talked to Sera about this one and she said that this one's already agreed on. First off, the two Sonics never fought him in a void. It's outright said by Tails that they were fighting in a wormhole. Secondly, the voids in the game doesn't have the requirements to be considered true voids. Not unlike the voids in Dragon Ball.

Solaris
Solaris actually is an immeasurable being. Undoubtedly. Not just infinite, immeasurable. Problem is a few things. Unlike tier 2 AP, immeasurable speed for Super Forms is a giant outlier when they don't have feats that go above a few million times FTL.

"But Cal, the Chaos Emeralds are a variable!"

So if Super Sonic beat a tier 1 being, we'd accept it because of variables? No. If it's too far off of what's the norm, it doesn't matter how much of a variable it is, it's not going to be accepted.

Second, Solaris was stated to be anchored down to this dimension by Eggman, which would explain the above. A superdimensional being anchored down to the current dimension makes sense.

Thirdly, the void being moved in is simply a void by name. Pretty much every Sonic character that's in the game is in the same rift. I don't recall it being stated to even be timeless rather than just being a rift in space and time.
 
Time Eater's Warping Arm attack by its very nature bypasses linear Space-time & can attack anywhere & anywhen,especially in the context that Eggman describes the technique.Both Super Sonics dodge the attack consecutively throughout the battle(immeasurable).The Super Trio travels to their respective time periods via movement speed(immeasurable) & the actual battle with Solaris takes place in a void(infinite),the rest of the cast is in the rift. The anchoring was it's consciousness, which had nothing to do with speed. You folks might aswell not even consider scaling to Solaris if power & not speed is being considered.That's my 2 cents, which isn't changing anything.
 
Okay.

1) AD INFINITUM 444 addressed the Time Eater part nicely, so I'll focus on Solaris.

2) Not how it works. You can't do a half-measure where the hedgehogs scale to Solaris's AP but the speed is an outlier. Either they scale (otherwise Solaris would blitz them) or the feat is an outlier.

Yes, the Chaos Emeralds are variable, so if Super Sonic did beat a tier 1 being, he would scale to it. Can't say "it's too far off the norm" when the gap between 4-A and 2-C is more than infinite. Doesn't matter anyways since Super Sonic's best feat is 2-C, so the tier caps at that.

Eggman said that after the sentence where he said "he eats dimensions for lunch." He was not referring to a spatiotemporal dimension, he was referring to universes, or dimensions as they're called in the Sonic games. Solaris was anchored to every timeline version of Sonic's dimension (because LOL plot).

Sonic's friends aren't in the void. They're on the remains of the destroyed planet inside the rift. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver went into the void to fight Solaris. I do however agree that Solaris should have immeasurable speed, as he's a higher-dimensional being that exists beyond linear time.
 
Time Eater's attack is literally a portal. No.

Then if it's all or nothing, Solaris is an outlier and Sonic would be Scales to Egg Wizard. If Shulk for example kept up with someone who was Immeasurable, it doesn't matter if the dude was Low 2-C or 5-B. It'd still be an outlier. Now I'm all for Sonic scaling in AP but definitely not speed.

There are so many nopes in that that I can't begin where to start. No, lolvariable would not begin to justify a fraction of that. At all. That's wank to an extreme degree.

Then Solaris wouldn't be higher dimensional at all. Because all evidence of the thing being higher dimensional comes from that same paragraph. That's cherrypicking. And then no one but Illumina would have above finite speed. And who cares if it's lolplot? It changes nothing. If we use PIS here, as you said, then everything involving Solaris would need to be PIS.

There was nothing that implied they were in a different realm than where the rest of the crew was iirc. Especially given that Solaris was able to be heard by the crew from where they were.
 
I'd need some scans about Time Eater's attack.

If it is what Cal says it is, then I agree with the downgrade. If it isn't, then things are up for debate.
 
That's for a different time and I know little about Archie. I also like Archie far more and would feel bad about affecting those profiles
 
You said it yourself, "the Chaos Emeralds give Sonic power that is proportional to the enemy he is facing." So if he did defeat a tier 1, then he would be tier 1. But since he hasn't and almost certainly never will, his best feat is 2-C.

"He is a transcendent life form that exists in the past, present, and future," which establishes that Solaris is a higher-dimensional being. I just let "LOL plot" slip because it was never explained what was anchoring Solaris.

The crew talk during gameplay to guide the player in how to defeat the boss. It's always been like that.
 
I'm talking about when Sonic was dead. They could hear Solaris doing his business close by in a cutscene.
 
I was gunna agree with Cal, buuuuut Shadow does have a point on the variable tier. Even though I disagree with a lot of scaling with Sonic, but more on that tomorrow. For now I'm neutral on this.
 
That means little, man. The Emeralds don't bestow the power onto Solaris. Solaris as the original being was already a 2-C. It just caused Mephiles and Iblis to merge.
 
Solaris was originally a sentient flame, which the Duke of Soleanna experimented on, resulting in it splitting into Mephiles and Iblis. Mephiles of course later used the Chaos Emeralds to fuse with Iblis and recreate Solaris.
 
Aight. I'll admit wrongness there. Thanks for informing me. But the first half of my sentence stands. For example, just because Potara Earring can fuse people into Vegito/Fused Zamasu/Kefla doesn't make them Low 2-C.
 
Chaos used the Chaos Emeralds to amp itself up to becoming Perfect Chaos and Mephilis used the Chaos Emeralds as a catalyist to merge with Iblis and becoming Solaris in the process. It'd be a stretch that Solaris is the only instance where they don't reap the benefits of using the Chaos Emeralds as a power source since every other villain in the Sonic series who's got their hands on the Emeralds and used them actually grew in power (ex: Perfect Chaos, Ultimate Emerl, and Gemerl).
 
You should probably ask Dark649 and Sera EX to comment here. I think they are knowledgeable about Sonic.
 
So should we close this thread and continue the discussion there instead?

It seems unnecessary to discuss the same thing in two threads at the same time.
 
Antvasima said:
So should we close this thread and continue the discussion there instead?
It seems unnecessary to discuss the same thing in two threads at the same time.
Click to expand...
I think yes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Eseseso
Sonic General CRT
2
Replies
52
Views
4K
GlaceonGamez471
GlaceonGamez471
ShakeResounding
Even Further Beyond: The Hypertime of Sonic the Hedgehog
4 5 6
Replies
211
Views
17K
Eseseso
Eseseso
JJSliderman
Sonic Cosmology 5Ds: Dreams, Dimensions, Data, Delusions, and Downgrades
2
Replies
70
Views
4K
JJSliderman
JJSliderman
Brogeefrong
WE MAKIN IT INTO A HIGHER COSMOLOGY WITH THIS ONE🗣🔥 | Archie Sonic, Solaris and Cosmology additions | 0-0-0
2 3 4
Replies
150
Views
11K
Brogeefrong
Brogeefrong
CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Finite Speed? That's Small Time! (Modern Base Sonic Speed CRT)
4 5 6
Replies
217
Views
13K
AdamVhenJP
AdamVhenJP
Back
Top