'''Son of the sun VS Max Overlord of Nazarick '''

[OpMasada]

On Karna's profile it's mentioned that Kavacha and Kundala do not protect him from attacks that specifically target his internal organs, which is exactly what Grasp Heart does.

And on karna's profile.......it states that he shrugs off getting hit by internal attacks regardless..

 

[Schnee_One]

They're not talking about Ainz @Masada

Ainz can just kinda beat him to death considering he still has a huge AP advantage.

Plus, correct me, Karna's only way to victory is an attack that is restricted

 

[Jugger47]

@Jugger his profile already states he has resistance to death manip, comments above already state that BB has death manip that karna resists.

Tell me, what was the death manip that BB used? I'd like to know, was it projectile or physcal based?

 

[OpMasada]

They're not talking about Ainz @Masada
Ainz can just kinda beat him to death considering he still has a huge AP advantage.

Plus, correct me, Karna's only way to victory is an attack that is restricted

Ainz actually isn't immune to mountain level attacks, he takes less damage, but he's not immune, and he shouldn't be island level physically unless he uses Perfect Warrior.

 

[Maraderchik]

No, no conceptual stuff for Ainz unless shown to,

Dude, wtf? I mean it's you who said Karna resist conceptual Death Manip. I'm point out that if so then Ainz have no chance, unless he remove his resistance via Wish.

Vote for Ainz for Gargoyle reasons. Ainz get plenty of time to cast Wish or TGOALID or whatever he want due to Karna AP disadvantage (which i didn't even see at first...)

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Lets not forget Karna can just drop a few Brahmastras and Brahmastra Kundala.

 

[FDrybob]

He will be forced to use perfect warrior or TGOALID if his spells don't work on Karna. If he uses perfect warrior, he gains a huge AP advantage.

 

[OpMasada]

No, no conceptual stuff for Ainz unless shown to,

Dude, wtf? I mean it's you who said Karna resist conceptual Death Manip. I'm point out that if so then Ainz have no chance, unless he remove his resistance via Wish.

Your assuming he can remove possibly (I don't know much about fate so I can't say if BB used the conceptual version of her hax or not, but she most likely did) Conceptual resistances.

I'm pretty sure that implies conceptual hax which is no-no. Of course, i'm also assuming it's conceptual death hax, but if BB was capable of death-haxing the world, including undead, it shouldn't matter regardless.

@Jugger idk I don't play Fate/Extra CCC

 

[Jugger47]

@Jugger idk I don't play Fate/Extra CCC

Reason why im asking is because his armor is what gives him his Death Manip resistance, so, if a spell bypasses his armor and he doesn't resist it, he will still die. Grasp heart does all of that, attacks his internal organs, and karna does not resist spells that powerful, and it bypasses his armor. So if anyone knows what type of attack BB uses and its something similar to what Grasp heart is, im leaning towards Ainz simply grasp hearting and winning.

 

[Maraderchik]

>Your assuming he can remove

That's it.

 

[FDrybob]

@Jugger47

Since Karna's magic resistance is only C, I'm pretty sure he won't resist Ainz's high tier spells if they can bypass the armor. For that reason, I think that if Vasavi Shakti weren't restricted, it would actually be better for Ainz since he can just resurrect and hax Karna to death now that he's sacrificed his armor.

 

[Jugger47]

@Jugger47
Since Karna's magic resistance is only C, I'm pretty sure he won't resist Ainz's high tier spells if they can bypass the armor. For that reason, I think that if Vasavi Shakti weren't restricted, it would actually be better for Ainz since he can just resurrect and hax Karna to death now that he's sacrificed his armor.

Yea I was going to mention the same thing, allowing his strongest attacks would actually kill karna even faster ironically enough.

 

[Jugger47]

It took a little thinking but I'm voting for Ainz.

Grasp heart bypasses his armor, karna doesn't resist spells that strong, Ainz wins.

 

[FDrybob]

Does mana exhaustion factor into this? Karna is very difficult to upkeep for a servant.

 

[OpMasada]

@Jugger yeah but I still can't give you the answer to your question as I don't play it.

@Maraderchik

A possibly conceptual resistance

@FDrybob

True.

 

[Jugger47]

Does mana exhaustion factor into this? Karna is very difficult to upkeep for a servant.

Assuming what I did. I would think not. Battle is over too fast.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If all feats are allowed short of VS, then Karna is running on practically infinite mana like during Apocrypha. Stamina isn't going to be factoring into this fight.

 

[OpMasada]

Does mana exhaustion factor into this? Karna is very difficult to upkeep for a servant.

Fights in regards to servants usually result in them having infinite mana unless stated otherwise. (Because it's dependant on their master and they dont usually have one in vs debate)

 

[Schnee_One]

It took a little thinking but I'm voting for Ainz.

Grasp heart bypasses his armor, karna doesn't resist spells that strong, Ainz wins.

He regens from Grasp Heart and resists Death that can kill Undead's.

 

[Jugger47]

If all feats are allowed short of VS, then Karna is running on practically infinite mana like during Apocrypha. Stamina isn't going to be factoring into this fight.

While I agree its not a factor but not for the some reasons. Only due to the fact that this battle wouldn't last long enough.

Weaknesses: Karna's magical energy consumption is extremely high, preventing him from making full use of his abilities and taking up most of his Master's magical energy supply. He is also extremely obedient, obeying his Master's orders without question and following their will to the letter. Due to a curse, Brahmastra cannot be used against those more skilled than him, though such individuals are rare. To use Vasavi Shakti, he has to sacrifice his armor, and is weakened in the process.

You or someone else should make a CRT if thats really what you think because his weakness is straightup high magical upkeep, assuming you are talking about mana consumption and not physcal stamina.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Grasp Heart doesn't even bypass KK since it comes from outside.

 

[FDrybob]

Either way, Ainz has a resistance to fire, superior hax, better durability (which increases slightly with PW), the AP advantage if he uses perfect warrior, and can resurrect once.

 

[Jugger47]

Grasp Heart doesn't even bypass KK since it comes from outside.

"However, it offers no protection against attacks that directly harm his internal organs without interacting with his armor"

That is exactly what grasp heart does. Harms his internal organs without interacting with his armor. It bypasses it.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

snip

The mana consumption is only relevant when he has a stated Master as almost everyone would die if Karna had a semi-long fight. Karna has no stated Master in this fight and all feats are allowed meaning he has infinite mana.

 

[Schnee_One]

Or just like to point out that Karna can use Brahmastra on Ainz if he uses TGOALID considering Karna resists time Stop and Ainz has a super long waiting period to use it and is defenseless

 

[OpMasada]

Debatable, but gargoyle seems to deny it. Me too, given that gargoyle says he can resist death hax.

And again, what does it matter that ainz has high-tier spells? They don't increase the potency of his death manip other than the fact they have some nifty side-effects. If karna can resist magic attacks from beings similar to him then he should be able to resist ainz's as well.

@Jugger I think the infinite stamina thing was already debated before and accepted...but idk

 

[AnonymousBlank]

snip

Do you know what else doesn't interact with his armor? A time paradox, EE, Death Manipulation etc. Karna just straight up ignored that stuff. Kazikli Bey is the only attack that has been shown to affect Karna from the inside out and that was only after it had already bypassed KK.

 

[Jugger47]

snip

The mana consumption is only relevant when he has a stated Master as almost everyone would die if Karna had a semi-long fight. Karna has no stated Master in this fight and all feats are allowed meaning he has infinite mana.

I see the all feats allowed now, that should really be on the main post.

 

[FDrybob]

Magic resistance in the Nasuverse is based on potency. Karna only resists those hax effects if they come from magic that doesn't overwhelm his C-rank resistance. For example, if he were hit with an A-rank petrification effect, or was petrified by something completely non-magical, it would work. Karna's armor has far better resistance, but Ainz's Grasp Heart is a 9th tier spell, among his strongest, and it can bypass Karna's armor by targeting the inside of his body directly.

Even if it doesn't work, perfect warrior will give Ainz a huge AP advantage if he is forced to use it.

 

[Belyompusct]

6C-Karna does not have all said resistances, lol.

 

[Schnee_One]

There is no 6C Karna

He is 7A

 

[Schnee_One]

Magic resistance in the Nasuverse is based on potency. Karna only resists those hax effects if they come from magic that doesn't overwhelm his C-rank resistance. For example, if he were hit with an A-rank petrification effect, or was petrified by something completely non-magical, it would work. Ainz's Grasp Heart is a 9th tier spell, among his strongest, and it can bypass Karna's armor by targeting the inside of his body directly.

Wrong

BB and The Moon Cell in general have literally shit all to do with Magic resistance otherwise every servant would have it.

Karna's resistances are entirely seperate from Magic resistance

 

[OpMasada]

6C-Karna does not have all said resistances, lol.

I think by "no 5-a feats" the OP was referring to vasavi shakti.

 

[Jugger47]

snip

Do you know what else doesn't interact with his armor? A time paradox, EE, Death Manipulation etc. Karna just straight up ignored that stuff. Kazikli Bey is the only attack that has been shown to affect Karna from the inside out and that was only after it had already bypassed KK.

That statement straight up contradicts his

"However, it offers no protection against attacks that directly harm his internal organs without interacting with his armor"

I had asked for what exactly BB does, thanks. If this is the case then grasp heart alone is not going to work. Perfect warrior and TGOALID are his only options.

 

[FDrybob]

@Gargoyle One

I was specifically talking about Karna's innate magic resistance that comes from his class skill. His armor is a different story, but like I said, it's plausible that Grasp Heart can bypass it.

 

[OpMasada]

Forget what I said.

 

[Belyompusct]

No matter how look at it, it's a stompish thread in both ways. Close this shit, pls.

 

[Maraderchik]

Or just like to point out that Karna can use Brahmastra on Ainz

• Brahmastra Kundala: O' Brahma, Curse Me: as it would have instantly annihilated Ruler before she could utilize her privilege or if she had deployed Luminosité Eternelle.

But she's 7-A...

 

[Jugger47]

His durability may be lower than Ainz perfect warrior AP but his 90% damage reduction is far to great to overcome, Ainz would have to use wish upon a star to remove it, but with all feats allowed whether or not that effects him is totally up in the air.....

 

[OpMasada]

@Maraderchik she is island level with her noble phantasm.