Son Goku (Toei) / GT / Non-Canon Revision

[BlackeJan]

Ok thank you. I want to ask but ive forgotten but where is the fight between him and Janemba? the latter has messed up King Yemmas place (disorganized it i would say) so the fight would be in hell right?
If that was the case then yeah SSJ3 Goku affecting not only hell but to be able to affect heaven as well which also means he affect King Yemmas place

Looking at the scan to show if it is indeed as big as a Universe, would we be able to make a calc out of it? i know its another dumb idea of mine but lets be honest we all are geting tired of arguing the same thing and no one is gonna budge

@Matt

But Grand Kais place is in heaven correct?

 

[Kepekley23]

We don't go with a hybrid system anymore. DBZ always had a normal universe; we agree with this since Ryukama's post in teh DBGT thread.

 

[AKM sama]

Even if we lowball the size of afterlife, it would still be equal to the universe size, and Goku shaking Grand Kai's planet from Hell means he covered a distance equal to the radius.

 

[Dark649]

Grand Kais place is in heaven correct?
It's located above heaven.

 

[BlackeJan]

^

Yes thank you. If that is the case then insetad of just thinking that it be lowballed or all this talk...why not just find or make a calc of the scan? it beats just going around in circles since all @Matt is really arguing about is the size of the scan

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Even if we lowball the size of afterlife, it would still be equal to the universe size, and Goku shaking Grand Kai's planet from Hell means he covered a distance equal to the radius.

Mmm...

 

[BlackeJan]

^
Yes thank you. If that is the case then insetad of just thinking that it be lowballed or all this talk...why not just find or make a calc of the scan? it beats just going around in circles since all @Matt is really arguing about is the size of the scan

 

[AKM sama]

@Black

Kep's calc already considers the distance to be equal to the radius. You can check it out, it's in the OP.

 

[Kepekley23]

Absolute minimum: Goku was in the ground zero of the Afterlife while Grand Kai's planet is in the upper boundary of the hemisphere (this ignores the fact that the movie shows Goku shooting past lots of horizontal ground when he ITs all the way from Grand Kai's planet to King Yemma's palace).

That'd require the Earthquake's vertical diameter to be 46.5 billions of light years, which in turn makes the result roughly 4 times lower and puts it at the ~200 ZettaFoe range. Which is still highly 3-C.

Keep in mind that a vertical earthquake requires the source energy to be incredibly more potent in comparison, moreso than a normal horizontal quake.

Semantics.

 

[BlackeJan]

@Black
Kep's calc already considers the distance to be equal to the radius. You can check it out, it's in the OP.

If thats the case then i dont see the problem for this upgrade

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The 3-C feat in of itself may be valid but I question it scaling and not being an outlier.

I question the interpretation of other Toei feats too.

 

[BlackeJan]

The 3-C feat in of itself may be valid but I question it scaling and not being an outlier.
I question the interpretation of other Toei feats too.

what others do u question?

 

[AguilaR101]

The only scaling issues I find are the attempts to scale to buu saga characters when this movie references said saga as a past event, meaning there is a large possibility Goku got the chance to surpass the power he displayed in the buu saga, specially when you have power jumps such as the one from vegeta saga - end of Namek happening in a window of less than a few months.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

@Aguila

Wait really?

 

[Kepekley23]

When Goku tells Janemba only Majin Boo had seen his SSJ3, he probably means Fat Boo and not Kid Boo.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

goku and Vegeta are dead in the movie so this takes place during the 24 hour long Buu Saga even though that makes no sense lol.

 

[Kepekley23]

^ 48+ hours long, technically. Gohan's ritual lasted roughly one day and Goku's time had long since run out by then.

 

[PaChi2]

Is "Plan to erradicate the Saiyans" canon?

 

[Dark649]

Is "Plan to erradicate the Saiyans" canon?

It takes place after the First Broly Movie, but before the Cell Games.

 

[PaChi2]

It takes place after the First Broly Movie, but before the Cell Games.

Doesnt it make Slug and Turles and by proxy their movies canon, then?

Im just asking because there was some controversy.

 

[Dark649]

Doesnt it make Slug and Turles and by proxy their movies canon, then?

Slug Movie takes place after Tree of Might, but they are canon to their own continuity.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Fusion Reborn has literally connections to just about every other movie except Lord Slug and Super Android 13. On top of a few other movies being proven canon in the various anime filler such as Garlic Jr, Wrath of the Dragon is canonically where Trunks gets Tapion's sword, which he see him carry in Dragon Ball GT. So Android 13 is really the only one I don't see connections to, but the connections and references are actually all over the place.

 

[Dark649]

Lord Slug minions appears in Fusion Reborn.

 

[Chartate101]

Are there connections to The World's Strongest?

 

[Amexim]

Why are we arguing about canonicity to a non canon medium that is treated as a composite page for the non-canon information anyway? Toeiverse Goku is just anime composite Goku— which is how we should treat it. Whether or not Matt thinks it's ok to treat certain movies as canon or not is irrelevant— mostly because there's no way of discerning what is or isn't canon in terms of contradicting events, and that events that connect to the anime really suck at doing so.

This just seems like an excuse to disagree to me. It doesn't matter if it's canon to the Z anime for Toeiverse Goku. GT Goku night matter though, but Matt's complaints for applying this to Toeiverse Goku doesn't mean anything.

 

[Dark649]

Are there connections to The World's Strongest?

Dr. Wheloo minions also appears in Fusion Reborn.

 

[Chartate101]

Cool

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yeah, was just hearing what Glass said; I did see a green guy in one of the image links that was a Lord Slug minion. So Android 13 is the only one that lacks a connection from the looks of it.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, the Shamonians from the 1st Broly movie appear on the anime at one point.

 

[Dark649]

Despite the things Matt mentioned, i don't think the High 4-C and 3-C calc will be that lower.

 

[Kepekley23]

The 3-C calc barely changes.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Is "Plan to erradicate the Saiyans" canon?

No.

 

[Dark649]

Define canon, which is only the Manga continuity. The other continuities are non-canon to that but canon in their own continuity.

 

[PaChi2]

No.

Alrighty. I meant for the Toeiverse, btw.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It isn't. Just because some random movie character appears in a cover art or a race that was used in a movie later appears in the anime doesn't mean that every movie is canon.

Specially not the ones which are irreconcilable with the anime plot-wise.

 

[Dark649]

Later?, the story about Tsufuru was already shown and told in the Anime before the Plan against the Saiyans and GT where someone wants revenge in their name, how could you not know that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also I regret the notion that this should be a "Composite" profile ever being accept. This means we keep merging irreconcilable things which aren't canon to each other.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Later?, the story about Tsufuru was already shown and told in the Anime before the Plan against the Saiyans and GT where someone wants revenge in their name, how could you not know that.

I was talking about the Broly aliens.

And the Tsufuru being used in GT and the main anime doesn't make Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans Canon.

 

[Kepekley23]

Anyhoo, what is the vote count so far?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why bring a vote count when the discussion is nowhere near finished.