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Son Goku (Toei) / GT / Non-Canon Revision

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Because people are hungry for biggatons so they want to use the inconsistent "Universal Heaven" statement to say that Buu is 3-B.
 
Here comes the derail train where we express irrelevant personal feelings.

...I hate the Boo Saga
 
The whole afterlife is the size of the mortal universe.

And Heaven is inside the afterlife.

So Heaven alone being the size of the universe makes no ******* sense and should be disregarded.

It's also visibly not that large in any single shot of the planet we get in any episode or media.
 
> Stuff that was dropped back in the early OBD days, let alone currently.

The OBD has the Primarchs at below planetary and has Kid Boo at dwarf star. If you meant this as a valid argument, it's a downright terrible one.
 
@Kep. There's been a tier 3 via reality warping on Janemba's profile in the past. That's what it should be. It should be apparent that's not wha it was talking about.
 
Promestein is correct that we should avoid irrelevant derail and fights.

Anyway, have we finally reached a conclusion?
 
The real cal howard said:
@Kep. There's been a tier 3 via reality warping on Janemba's profile in the past. That's what it should be. It should be apparent that's not wha it was talking about.
Click to expand...
This imo. Janemba's feat isn't combat-applicable.
 
Janemba's feat is a direct energy feat and we consistently treat feats that stem from the person's direct energy as legit. Nonetheless I think we should have a calc for the minimum energy yield to change objects of a certain size.
 
Kid buu is 3-B based on his power to wipe GK planet. The calc is legit. And consistent given the other high end 3-C feats discused here, and statements in GT and about Buu. I don't see why it's being ignored.
 
It's not legit nor consistent. The statement is just hype. It's not a feat. And the planet isn't that large. The Kaioshin Realm as a whole is that big. The GK planet is just a planet.
 
THe statement is very balatant, this is like saying Cell can;t destroy a solar system since he just said it, there is no reason for krillin to make it up,a dn it is consistent with the other tier 3 feats.

Planet is that large, you have yet to provide a calc to counter my own, or the guides that show backing it. Just your opinion that it is smaller.

GK planet =/= kaioshin planet. Kaioshin realm is a seperate entity all together and irrelivent tot eh topic. GK planet is above heaven but part of other world, and a planet only.
 
The statement just says he was going to destroy Grand Kai's planet which is just a normal planet. That's really it.

And I mean, if you want to open that can of worms I'll quite gladly argue about 4-B Cell. It's literally just a "Hahaha, I'll blast you to hell!" type statement in the manga.

The thing which is stated to be equivalent to 1/10th of the universe in size is the entire Kaioshin Realm which Buu never threatened. You are mishmashing statements together to highball the hell out of a planetary feat.

Buu's best feat is destroying a galaxy over a period of a few years and scaling via a 3-C feat from Goku.

That's it.
 
Promestein said:
3-B is quite outliery.

I'm fine with Kep's suggestions for the tiers. Maybe At least 3-C for the earlier GT characters is best, and then 3-B for the relevant Shenrons, SSJ4 Goku at his peak, Omega Shenron, and Gogeta.
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ÔÿØ´©Å
 
Quantu said:
Promestein said:
3-B is quite outliery.

I'm fine with Kep's suggestions for the tiers. Maybe At least 3-C for the earlier GT characters is best, and then 3-B for the relevant Shenrons, SSJ4 Goku at his peak, Omega Shenron, and Gogeta.
Click to expand...
ÔÿØ´©Å
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Just do this and end this thread.
 
Yes, a planet orbiting around a larger planet. The notion that Heaven is universal in size has long been debunked making the calc highballed as all hell, Ryu. It's not accepted nor being used.
 
Heaven also orbits a yellow star. Are you going to say that star is larger than the universe?

When it's a normal yellow sun that produces earth-like conditions on the planet that orbits it.

At some point we need to put our big brains to thinking and realize that we can't just shrug off the ilogical aspects of the claim.
 
It has never been debunked. You jsut say it ahs without actual proof.

Show actual proof that the guide and Videl are wrong. Thats all im asking. If you can't show legit contradictions to the statements then they should obviously be accepted.

1. You have no calc to prove that Heaven planet is smaller than stated. It could be any distance so not good enough. Also things are not always to scale in drawings, hence why we use directly stated numbers or values.

2. It is never stated the entire other world is Unvierse size, it is only stated heaven is, so that argument is moot.

It very well could be based on the planets stated size, but there is not a specific size given so I wont speculate.

Other world has all sorts of illogical things like snake way, uber dense planets, universe sized palnets etc. so it is not out of the question.

Anyway, ive said my piece, i'm not interested in repeating myself anymore. They are impericaly 3-B by consistent feats, statements and scaling. What you guys decide is whatever at this point, I can only provide the info and leave it at that. Hopefully some other staff who have more of a voice here than me like Kep or the other Ryu will push it through.
 
except for the fact that we're talking about the afterlife, why would anything like real world physics matter in the afterlife if the guy who makes heaven in his movie or show or manga or whatever wants to have a multi-galaxy sized yellow star in the afterlife then guess what he's gonna do it.

at this point after reading through the whole thread it feels like the couple of people who really don't want this upgrade to go through are just grasping at straws now if we've gotten to the point where I think the shiny yellow ball of whatever in the sky in heaven is just a regualr star.
 
Dragon Ball afterlife is a literal physical place people with living bodies can exist in. With space, planets and stars. It makes total sense for there to be real world physics in the afterlife.

Just dismissing it as "But muh author said it" or "Guidebook" or "It's fiction!" is just appealing to authority and tossing the inconsistencies and genuine concerns aside to try and force an incorrect interpretation through.

And it's totally a regular star. Prove to me it's not. Prove to me, conclusively, that Heaven is universal in size when all the evidence points to it just being a big planet.

There's literally no 3-B feat in the Buu Saga or in Dragon Ball until the Shadow Dragon arc. Buu blowing up a planet being exaggerated to 3-B is absurd.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
I say we leave this 3-B discussion for another thread to be made .... And make the already accepted changes (3-C) now before this gets out of hand.
Click to expand...
no thread should be made about the 3-B planet thing. It's blatantly wrong.
 
So just a few questions.

Do we use the Super Saiyan multipliers for the Toeiverse? If yes should SS1 and SS2 Goku also be 3-C in the Buu Saga?
 
So how's this for the Non Canon Dragon Ball characters (not including GT) that have a Profile?

Non Canon Dragon Ball Revisions

Buu Saga Toei Goku: 4-A in Base and with various transformations, 3-C with SS3 (Shook the afterlife) Higher with Dragon Fist (One shot Transformed Hirudegarn)

Gogeta: 3-B (Vastly stronger than Goku and Vegeta. Stomped Super Janemba) | At least 3-B (Much stronger than Omega Shenron)

Keys: Fusion Reborn | Dragon Ball GT

Janemba: At least 4-A Likely 3-C (Should be close to Kid Buu in Power) | 3-C (Stronger than SS3 Goku)

Keys: Fat Janemba | Super Janemba

Hirudegarn: Likely 3-C (Fought Ultimate Gohan) | 3-C (Stronger than SS3 Goku)

Keys: Base | Transformed

Tapion: 3-C

Dai Kaioshin: 3-C (Destroyed Kid Buu)

South Kaioshin: 3-C (Fought evenly with Kid Buu)

Future Warrior 1: 4-A (Fought Dark Magic Empowered Super Perfect Cell) | 3-C (Fought Dark Magic Empowered Majin Buu and destroyed Mira)

Keys: Cell Saga | Buu Saga

Future Warrior 2: 4-A (Fought Dark Magic Empowered Super Perfect Cell and destroyed entire groups of Dark Magic Meta-Cooler) | 3-C (Fought Time Breaker Janemba)

Keys: Cell Saga | Buu Saga

Mira: 3-C (Thought he is capable of defeating SS3 Goku and Innocent Buu)

Hero: 3-B (Fought and defeated Golden Great Ape Baby) | At least 3-B (Fought and defeated Omega Shenron)

Keys: Post-Training | Post-2nd Training
 
And it's totally a regular star. Prove to me it's not. Prove to me, conclusively, that Heaven is universal in size when all the evidence points to it just being a big planet.

Are you really asking me to prove that a star that can provide light to half the universe is not a noraml star, really?
 
Oh god, Matt, you don't get it. The anime itself doesn't match up with itself. Garlic Jr doesn't make sense, for example. The fact that all of these movies connect in ways to the anime, but EVERY movie doesn't make sense in the context of the anime— but it disregards feats unnecessarily. There's no reason to omit that much information over canon that doesn't exist...
 
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