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Son Goku (Toei) / GT / Non-Canon Revision
- Thread starter The_2nd_Existential_Seed
- Start date
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If you're willing to admit this than don't say Goku's feat in GT is comparable because even by your parameters it's not.Kepekley23 said:
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It doesn't matter how many people agreed with the calc if the very premise the calc is based upon is demonstrably false.
The math can be fine, but the scans are false.
The math can be fine, but the scans are false.
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You literally didn't even know what the feat was about when it was first mentioned. You mentioned stuff about Heaven that nobody else mentioned.
But no, as a matter of fact, GT Goku's power up rocked all of Hell. King Yemma said the matter was out of his hands while holding onto dear life due to the quake, and acknowledged that they were doing it in Hell.
But no, as a matter of fact, GT Goku's power up rocked all of Hell. King Yemma said the matter was out of his hands while holding onto dear life due to the quake, and acknowledged that they were doing it in Hell.
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And? The feat didn't shake all of Hell. It doesn't need to shake all of Hell to reach Yemma-Oh's room which is not that far away from Hell.
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The otherworld tournament takes place inside a room in grand kai's planet which is on the opposite end of the afterlife as shown in any model of the DB universe, see ep 196 DBZ for reference.
The Grand kai planet is located at the opposite end of the afterlife in every depiction of the universe map, This cosmology is directly referenced in the anime [1]
The afterlife is stated to contain an structure as large as the universe (heaven) within it and it's directly between the grand kai planet and hell, and at any rate the mortal universe is shown to only take the lower spherical cap of the entire structure, which corroborates the size of the afterlife being equal or greater than the universe [2]
Furthermore, at the beginning of the clip you can see the light of Goku's transformation illuminating all the way up to Emma's palace which shows he is really affecting large portions of the afterlife.
The Grand kai planet is located at the opposite end of the afterlife in every depiction of the universe map, This cosmology is directly referenced in the anime [1]
The afterlife is stated to contain an structure as large as the universe (heaven) within it and it's directly between the grand kai planet and hell, and at any rate the mortal universe is shown to only take the lower spherical cap of the entire structure, which corroborates the size of the afterlife being equal or greater than the universe [2]
Furthermore, at the beginning of the clip you can see the light of Goku's transformation illuminating all the way up to Emma's palace which shows he is really affecting large portions of the afterlife.
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Heaven isn't the size of the universe lol.
It is contained inside the Afterlife which it as an entirety the size of the universe.
It is contained inside the Afterlife which it as an entirety the size of the universe.
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To be honest, I agree with Matt since this is tremendously stronger than Kid Boo's gradual galaxy busting calc and again, is a outlier.
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I disagree on a lot of things.
For instance I don't think Goku shook the whole afterlife.
For instance I don't think Goku shook the whole afterlife.
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Goku shook the whoel afterlife. Hell has the same horizontal diameter as the entire universe. Goku's earthquake reached Grand Kai's planet, which is on the opposite end of where the battle with Janemba took place; which is show n even in the movie itself.
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Matthew Schroeder said:
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Yeah I'm not denying the connection. I'm saying that doesn't prove Goku shook a universe.
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He did shake the afterlife. Watch the movie. Right from the very beginning we see Goku IT from one of the edges, in Dai Kai's planet, to somewhere farther than the central station, and then descend all the way down to the very bottom of the afterlife. So that means they were in polarly opposite edges when the feat took place.
The absolute, most lowballed imaginable low end is 46.5 billion light years, aka the radius of the sphere. And it is still well into the hundreds of Zettafoe 3-C. Same with GT Goku. Changes nothing. At this point this is pure semantics, sorry.
The absolute, most lowballed imaginable low end is 46.5 billion light years, aka the radius of the sphere. And it is still well into the hundreds of Zettafoe 3-C. Same with GT Goku. Changes nothing. At this point this is pure semantics, sorry.
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I watched it. And I'm not denying Goku did some shaking, but I question the notion that it shook all of it and that's it's universes.
Also you kinda lost your credibility by using the term "macrocosmos" unironically. They most definitely not in polarly opposed edges either.
That "most lowballed low-end" is itself not accurate either, you're just saying that it must be the width of the universe with no evidence.
And definitely not for GT Goku. King Yemma's room is not far above hell. It's very very near it.
So I question 3-C SSJ3 Goku via this uncertain feat and more so 3-C Base Goku from GT.
Also you kinda lost your credibility by using the term "macrocosmos" unironically. They most definitely not in polarly opposed edges either.
That "most lowballed low-end" is itself not accurate either, you're just saying that it must be the width of the universe with no evidence.
And definitely not for GT Goku. King Yemma's room is not far above hell. It's very very near it.
So I question 3-C SSJ3 Goku via this uncertain feat and more so 3-C Base Goku from GT.
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Grand Kai's planet is contained in the afterlife as is Hell. They are not in polar opposite edges of the afterlife.
Their distances is entirely up in the air as the maps are completely out of scale.
Their distances is entirely up in the air as the maps are completely out of scale.
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> I watched it. And I'm not denying Goku did some shaking, but I question the notion that it shook all of it and that's it's universes.
It's one universal diameter, not 'universes". Grand Kai's planet and where the fight with Janemba took place were both different ends of the universe.
> Also you kinda lost your credibility by using the term "macrocosmos" unironically.
I guess Herms has zero credibility with his translations now. That's hilarious. Macrocosmos is literally just a fancy synonym to refer to the entire universe to break up color. Just because you have some adverse reaction to seeing people use it doesn't mean they've lost credibility.
I'd say that saying "why doesn't that planet collapse into a black hole?" is more of a way to lose credibility.
> That "most lowballed low-end" is itself not accurate either, you're just saying that it must be the width of the universe with no evidence.
The actual evidence has been shown several times throughout the thread.
It's one universal diameter, not 'universes". Grand Kai's planet and where the fight with Janemba took place were both different ends of the universe.
> Also you kinda lost your credibility by using the term "macrocosmos" unironically.
I guess Herms has zero credibility with his translations now. That's hilarious. Macrocosmos is literally just a fancy synonym to refer to the entire universe to break up color. Just because you have some adverse reaction to seeing people use it doesn't mean they've lost credibility.
I'd say that saying "why doesn't that planet collapse into a black hole?" is more of a way to lose credibility.
> That "most lowballed low-end" is itself not accurate either, you're just saying that it must be the width of the universe with no evidence.
The actual evidence has been shown several times throughout the thread.
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Goku literally falls into Hell after dropping from Snake Way. That indicates a number of things:
- Hell has a gravitational pull over King Yemma's palace
- Hell and King Yemma's palace share an atmosphere or else Goku would jusr float in the vacuum
- Hell and King Yemma's palace are not that far away for each other, as Goku didn't fall for lightyears to crash into it.
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Grand Kai's planet is at the top, equidistant from all the planets of the four Kais which are in different galaxies basically. King Yemma's palace is millions of miles away from North Kai's planet and Hell is beneath it.
So I can generously see this as Goku shaking something that is at a galactic distance away. Which would be 4-B or 4-A I believe.
So I can generously see this as Goku shaking something that is at a galactic distance away. Which would be 4-B or 4-A I believe.
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Where in the world is Grand Kais place?
You can see it in toriyama's paper napkin rendition in the very same page, the planet located at the very top is pointed and has the kanji for "Dai Kaiou no hoshi" i believe, which translates to Grand Kai's planet
You can see it in toriyama's paper napkin rendition in the very same page, the planet located at the very top is pointed and has the kanji for "Dai Kaiou no hoshi" i believe, which translates to Grand Kai's planet
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I'm fine with this revision.
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Except that interpretation makes zero sense. It'd require the Afterlife to be galaxy sized, which was sorely rejected by Ryukama in the past, in a big thread where everyone disagreed with it.
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No it'd make the Afterlife multi-galactic in size which is weirdly consistent with what the same maps and guidebooks say about the universe
But we tend to go with a hybrid of four galaxies map and in-show evidence because double.
But we tend to go with a hybrid of four galaxies map and in-show evidence because double.
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Ok thank you. I want to ask but ive forgotten but where is the fight between him and Janemba? the latter has messed up King Yemmas place (disorganized it i would say) so the fight would be in hell right?
If that was the case then yeah SSJ3 Goku affecting not only hell but to be able to affect heaven as well which also means he affect King Yemmas place
Looking at the scan to show if it is indeed as big as a Universe, would we be able to make a calc out of it? i know its another dumb idea of mine but lets be honest we all are geting tired of arguing the same thing and no one is gonna budge
If that was the case then yeah SSJ3 Goku affecting not only hell but to be able to affect heaven as well which also means he affect King Yemmas place
Looking at the scan to show if it is indeed as big as a Universe, would we be able to make a calc out of it? i know its another dumb idea of mine but lets be honest we all are geting tired of arguing the same thing and no one is gonna budge
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Heaven wasn't shook not is it as big as the universe. Grand Kai's palace was shaken and he fell of his chair.
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