Some Ups and Downs for Touhou Project

[RethPo]

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Neo-traditionalism_of_Japan/Story This is the mention of amitabha under "Eastern Judgement in the Sixtieth Year"

It seems pretty straight forward to me... whys it considered vague exactly? It was used for a possibly rating for hecatia and amitabha themselves previously at least

 

[Promestein]

I wouldn't say Merry and Renko are perfectly reliable sources.

 

[Mobi2]

I wouldn't say Merry and Renko are perfectly reliable sources.

It alluded to that they were experiencing the truth

地底のビジョンは地獄の物なのか ――感度の上がったメリーのアンテナが、日本の真実を想像する。		Are these visions of the underground Hell? - Merry pictures the truth of Japan through the increased sensitivity of her antenna.

 

[Promestein]

Visions of Hell aren't visions of Amitabha.

 

[Urshani]

is it back to 4-A 2hu?

 

[Mobi2]

The topic of Amitabha was brought up in relation to hell

 

[RethPo]

Well likelihood is, either renko and maribel would have either had to have had some vision of amitabha to make a statement like that. Or they likely just got it from some religious studies.

 

[Promestein]

They were just talking about Amitabha's size, as if it were a bit of information they already had; it seems unrelated to the experience they just had of Hell besides the comparison of size that they were making.

If we're downgrading from High 3-A I'd say the most reasonable downgrade would be "At least 4-A, possibly higher" or something to that effect, so as to avoid this pointless bitching about whether or not Amitabha is really that big.

 

[RethPo]

I mean, primordial gods would still be low 2-C at least. Please dont make me regret saying that prom!

Would saikous old high 4-C calc still be useable though https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Saikou_The_Lewd_King/Black_but_Holes_with_Suika_Ibuki

Uhhh... if were not just scaling the cast to doremy

 

[Mobi2]

They were just talking about Amitabha's size, as if it were a bit of information they already had; it seems unrelated to the experience they just had of Hell besides the comparison of size that they were making.

If we're downgrading from High 3-A I'd say the most reasonable downgrade would be "At least 4-A, possibly higher" or something to that effect, so as to avoid this pointless bitching about whether or not Amitabha is really that big.

Honestly, with the netherworld world statement, we could probably use it for possibly high-3A to that avail or else this is just going to be an infinite regression because "it is said" is still in the realm of possibility.

 

[Promestein]

I'd say 'possibly higher' is the best bet given the source we're dealing with saying it without total confidence.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

So whats the consensus for the Infinite speed feats so far?

Reisen’s Door sealing = not accepted
Youmu sword width = not accepted
Kaguya instant = not accepted; could be just lower than planck second or femtosecond reaction time (which tbf both are pretty good in MFTL+ ranges)
Suika destroying an infinite world = mistranslated
Eientei moving without time = not considered valid for Infinite speed according to wiki rules

Is there any other infinite speed feat I missed?

 

[Mobi2]

I'd say 'possibly higher' is the best bet given the source we're dealing with saying it without total confidence.

Far higher would probably be it given how large the range in interpretation is

 

[Promestein]

Sure.

 

[Mobi2]

I'd say 'possibly higher' is the best bet given the source we're dealing with saying it without total confidence.

there's some odd shenanigans in the joon/shion vs tenshi fight since she's shaking all of heaven and this happened (33:18 timestamp)

 

[Mobi2]

Btw they're also fighting in heaven

 

[Mobi2]

There's also this statement

Tenshi	天空に住む天人の戦い方を 見せてやろう！ お前達を倒したら 天界を滅ぼし 地上を滅ぼし 人類を滅ぼし 地をならし 美しい四季を作り 新しい生命を造り 悲しむ事のない心を創り 貧する事のない社会を作り この世界全てを 創り直してやろう！ 死に腐れ！　外道の神々よ！	Witness the fighting style of someone who lives in the sky! A celestial! Once I beat you two, I'll destroy Heaven, destroy the Earth, destroy humanity, tame the land, make four beautiful seasons, create new life, give them hearts that never feel sad, build a society where no one's poor... I'll remake this entire world! Rot in death! You heretic gods!

sorry I didn't bring this up earlier had a brain fart from mid term exams this week

 

[Promestein]

I know, I read the statement before. It just contributes to the possibly higher.

 

[Mobi2]

I know, I read the statement before. It just contributes to the possibly higher.

It makes heaven seem more like Multi galaxy though instead of 4-A

 

[Mobi2]

Bruh how much land do the celestials need

 

[Promestein]

Oh, uh, possibly, yeah, I guess?

 

[Urshani]

So 4-A, possibly 3-B?

Oh, uh, possibly, yeah, I guess?

 

[Promestein]

Maybe, I dunno. More opinions on it would be nice.

 

[Mobi2]

So 4-A, possibly 3-B?

I'm thinking more like 3-B possibly higher because it's kinda super blatant.

 

[RethPo]

Well the heavens clearly have galaxies in them, so 3-B heavens is a given.....

The characters scale to the heavens how again? If suika doesnt shatter them entirely....

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Eh, no.
Most of the otherworlds should be equal at least in base, knowing that they are still stated to be brane worlds and knowing how Touhou follows strings theory and brane cosmology this seems consistent.
The Land of Backdoor connects with many worlds, we know that by the fact that it has several doors connecting with Gensokyo and more.
We still has things like the Hell being infinite, each world being separated by spatio-temporal boundaries, Makai's size, etc. So it still pretty consistent with the actual ratings.
I can't say much atm, but when I could I'll provide more information and context about it.

 

[Mobi2]

Well the heavens clearly have galaxies in them, so 3-B heavens is a given.....

The characters scale to the heavens how again? If suika doesnt shatter them entirely....

Tenshi's dream world clone has the energy to passively shake it, and she was gonna destroy all of it. Joon and Shion fight her to capture her. Dream world counterparts are equal to the real world versions as shown in violet detector when okina takes away the amp that she gave to Sumireko's clone and they were dead even afterwards.

 

[Promestein]

The Land of the Backdoor doesn't have to be infinite to do that, and no, the Otherworlds can blatantly be different sizes; they've been compared in size, some Otherworlds can be overcrowded and others can be infinite in size, etc. Just not how it works. Some are infinite, some aren't.

 

[Mobi2]

The Land of the Backdoor doesn't have to be infinite to do that, and no, the Otherworlds can blatantly be different sizes; they've been compared in size, some Otherworlds can be overcrowded and others can be infinite in size, etc. Just not how it works. Some are infinite, some aren't.

Prom if the feat works for you I can give some of the scaling chain on the top of my head who the feat would scale to

 

[Promestein]

I'd rather deal with what Hecatia Gaming has to offer before moving on like the situation is completely done with now.

I'm not sure how we typically treat dimensions with starry backgrounds seemingly depicting galaxies. I seem to remember people being 4-A for such things before, but I'm not sure.

 

[RethPo]

Well we dunno tenshis timeframe for destroying it if she was even serious about that. Shaking it would be a good 4-A feat though

 

[Mobi2]

I'd rather deal with what Hecatia Gaming has to offer before moving on like the situation is completely done with now.

I'm not sure how we typically treat dimensions with starry backgrounds seemingly depicting galaxies. I seem to remember people being 4-A for such things before, but I'm not sure.

that's fine for now. I just presented the heaven stuff just so we don't downgrade the entire verse to like country level or something like that. If Hecatia_Gaming has anything else to present I'm all for it.

 

[Mobi2]

Well we dunno tenshis timeframe for destroying it if she was even serious about that. Shaking it would be a good 4-A feat though

Would've been pretty quick/urgent due to them having to fight her in the first place.

 

[Mobi2]

Well we dunno tenshis timeframe for destroying it if she was even serious about that. Shaking it would be a good 4-A feat though

But if that's the case it can be 4-A likely 3-B possibly far higher.

 

[Malomtek]

I'm sorta bewildered at how many blatant misinterpretations of canon material are showing up here. Like, is it not, like, page 2 information that the Sanzu River's size varies based on the usage of Komachi's ability? I'm not a Touhou expert or anything and even I can instantly call bullshit there. It's literally in the second paragraph of the wiki page; if you bring up something so blatantly incorrect again I'm going to have to assume that you're deliberately misrepresenting information to wank Touhou.

The taste of vindication is always sweet.

There's also something we need to consider here, particularly about how such a blatant misrepresentation as that passing also puts into serious question the veracity or even "good faith" of any of the other claims made in this thread and the other recent Touhou upgrade threads.

 

[Mobi2]

The taste of vindication is always sweet.

There's also something we need to consider here, particularly about how such a blatant misrepresentation as that passing also puts into serious question the veracity or even "good faith" of any of the other claims made in this thread and the other recent Touhou upgrade threads.

Putting the beef that you have with the others aside for a second what's your input on the Tenshi feat I gave

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Hmmm strange, I thought we have 2-C feats. Why are we discussing lower feats like 4-A? Unless this like the low end, like "At least 4-A, possibly 2-C".


Also we need to find other speed feats other than Infinite speed stuff since they're all not accepted unfortunately. Do we have calcs for MFTL+ stuff for Touhou? Outside of the Amitabha stuff since Prom said earlier that's very vague.

 

[Mobi2]

Hmmm strange, I thought we have 2-C feats. Why are we discussing lower feats like 4-A? Unless this like the low end, like "At least 4-A, possibly 2-C".


Also we need to find other speed feats other than Infinite speed stuff since they're all not accepted unfortunately. Do we have calcs for MFTL+ stuff for Touhou? Outside of the Amitabha stuff since Prom said earlier that's very vague.

Prom has an issue with the dream world stuff and them not being their own space-times we're waiting on Hecatia to give their side of the argument.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Oh wow... Okay. Was that the only Low 2-C/2-C feat? The wikia had Touhou characters at Low 2-C for a while so we should review those feats as well.

 

[Mobi2]

Oh wow... Okay. Was that the only Low 2-C/2-C feat? The wikia had Touhou characters at Low 2-C for a while so we should review those feats as well.

We talked about the others being haxed related and Miko's senkai is infinitely expanding rather than being infinite.