Some sort of Time Stop for Zangetsu (Quincy Spirit/Yhwach soul)

[Zzsax]

Oh..So there is an illegitimate time stop, good to know

 

[MachTwo]

I disagree too. It will be very handy in many combat situation if Quincy Zangetsu can stop time, but he never did that even though his main goal was always to protect Ichigo.

 

[Zzsax]

There are so many things Quincy zangetsu can do but never did,handy or not

 

[MachTwo]

In that situation time stop in combat will be the best option since even with Zangetsu power Ichigo barely win and Zangetsu not only gave him all of power but also use Blut to stop his blood too. Or in another situation where Zangetsu use Blut to save ichigo from yhwach critical strike. intead of Blut he can just time stop Yhwach, it not like Zangetsu never time stop Yhwach because ichigo want to do fair fight vs Yhwach because in the end Ichigo never beat Yhwach in fair fight.

 

[AppleLord]

Yeah this isn't legitimate Timestop, disagreeing as well.

That's not a valid reason, and since the one brought above was debunked. You have a blank plate to fill or this is nothing but your opinion. If someone agrees with Matt they are doing it because he is a Staff members without reading the thread. No one has refuted the time stop.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with Shadows reasons

Even Imade agrees

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That isn't actually a valid reasoning at all Matthew actually it's not even a reasoning all so you should clarify.What you essentially said the equivalent of "no".

 

[AppleLord]

I disagree too. It will be very handy in many combat situation if Quincy Zangetsu can stop time, but he never did that even though his main goal was always to protect Ichigo.

He couldn't.

• White Zangetsu took control in the following two Arcs and absorb Quincy Zangetsu and remained in control. (Only the fused Zangetsu wanted to protect Ichigo afterward the spirit dissapeared with Mugetsu)

• After he got his True Shikai when Zangetsu appeared one last time was because Ichigo forced his way there to talk about why he hide the fact that he was Yhwach from a 1,000 years ago, then, Ichigo said he will fight alone without their help.

 

[FuuHouHou]

It's an interesting point.

Zangetsu helped Ichigo in many ways, such as using Blut or Shadows, I believe he has a limited technique, but with the same concept of "Almighty", it could be something to watch with caution.

Shirosaki aided him with Regenerationn (Basic Hollow Technique), as well as Cero or reactive evolution. I believe it can fit in, taking into consideration the context of the work and the help that Ichigo received from them.

 

[AstralKing7]

That isn't actually a valid reasoning at all Matthew actually it's not even a reasoning all so you should clarify.What you essentially said the equivalent of "no".

I said Shadow

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Zangetsu not using it in combat also isn't valid especially since he has never actually fought except for White vs Ulquiorra who holds a different power and we have this thing called not combat applicable abilities.

 

[MachTwo]

Ichigo said he will fight alone without their help because he realize that they are him or part of him so he dont need to ask their help because they are him so he can acess their power and ability without need to ask them, such as when Ichigo can use gran rey cero when he in his Merged Hollow Form.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Astral

I wasn't speaking to you.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That is EOS Ichigo though,he haven't seen display all of the powers such as shadow ability Zangetsu has or even the one where he can summon many weapons,he was still learning new tricks and techniques from both Zangetsu as the series progresses like when the fought White and he didn't know you could use the sword like that.

 

[AppleLord]

Ichigo said he will fight alone without their help because he realize that they are him or part of him so he dont need to ask their help because they are him so he can acess their power and ability without need to ask them, such as when Ichigo can use gran rey cero when he in his Merged Hollow Form.

The Gran Rey Cero is a Hollow ability that he saw Grimmjow used. And like Yamamoto said Ichigo's sword is still a baby we can't expect him to use all of the techniques showned at once without any training.

Quincy and Hollow techniques are different. This addition is for Quincy Zangetsu spirit, not the Hollow Spirit. Also read the scans I posted above.

 

[FuuHouHou]

Zangetsu not using it in combat also isn't valid especially since he has never actually fought except for White vs Ulquiorra who holds a different power and we have this thing called not combat applicable abilities.

I know that, but it's something to look into. Zangetsu used Blut, like Shadow, is not something to use in combat, of course, but it's a point to watch. Ichigo also proved to absorb reishi, as he forced his merged transformation. Thinking about the possibility of a Time-Stop, it is not difficult seen what Yhwach can do.

 

[MachTwo]

Point is at that time Ichigo should able to use both of his Zangetsu ability when he has access to them and because both of them is part of him, he dont need to ask them and wherever this is Quincy Zangetsu or his Hollow Zangetsu is doesn't matter since both are his zangetsu. I use Gran Rey Cero as example of Ichigo using his Zangetsu ability.

 

[MachTwo]

I know that, but it's something to look into. Zangetsu used Blut, like Shadow, is not something to use in combat, of course, but it's a point to watch. Ichigo also proved to absorb reishi, as he forced his merged transformation. Thinking about the possibility of a Time-Stop, it is not difficult seen what Yhwach can do.

But Zangetsu did use Blut in combat. not once but twice.

 

[AppleLord]

Point is at that time Ichigo should able to use both of his Zangetsu ability when he has access to them and because both of them is part of him, he dont need to ask them and wherever this is Quincy Zangetsu or his Hollow Zangetsu is doesn't matter since both are his zangetsu. I use Gran Rey Cero as example of Ichigo using his Zangetsu ability.

Which doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. My point still stands. You can't expect him to use all of the abilities if he doesn't know how to do so. Zangetsu can make Clones, and Ichigo barely makes afterimages of clones.

 

[FuuHouHou]

I know that, but it's something to look into. Zangetsu used Blut, like Shadow, is not something to use in combat, of course, but it's a point to watch. Ichigo also proved to absorb reishi, as he forced his merged transformation. Thinking about the possibility of a Time-Stop, it is not difficult seen what Yhwach can do.

But Zangetsu did use Blut in combat. not once but twice.

Yes I agree. I was responding to the guy from above who said he did not use it in combat, but it does not make that much difference.

 

[FuuHouHou]

It's really interesting that point, I had never thought about that side. Taking Yhwach's leading technique into account, I think it would be well to accept that.

 

[HST_Master]

At worst this is just from Ichigo's pov

At best this is Non Combat Applicable

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is the equivalent of giving Kurama Time-Stop due to all the times Naruto had lengthy conversations with it in his mind while no time passed in the real world.

It's not a legitimate timestop.

I also love that apparently me agreeing with Shadow and IMade is "Staff saying no for no reason".

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im also going to mention the fact that just because Zangetsu used a Quincy Portal to reach Ichigo, or let Ichigo go to his Inner World, doesnt mean that everything in this moment during the Kenpachi fight was physically happening.

Soul Reapers cannot access their Inner Worlds where their Zanpakuto forms lie physically, it's all mentally done. Hence why its a world within themselves, it's not an actual dimension. Zangetsu more than likely used the Quincy Portal to lead Ichigo there since that was Ichigo's literal 2nd time ever talking to Zangetsu and going back to that world, Ichigo wasn't capable of going there on his own yet.

Not to mention, Ichigo was in a state of almost being dead, which in most cases would mean your unconscious or well near it. Saying his conversation with Zangetsu wasn't in his head (which btw, also doesn't instantly mean they were talking in the Inner World) during this situation is kinda pushing it. So for this part of the evidence, Zangetsu using a portal doesn't mean anything.

 

[FuuHouHou]

There's a difference. When Ichigo talked to Zangetsu on other occasions, time did not stop, even in his training with Dangai for Tensa Zangetsu, time was important. In addition to other occasions involving the Shirosaki.

Zangetsu use Shadow alone is a proof that he can affect outside the inner world.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

There's a difference. When Ichigo talked to Zangetsu on other occasions, time did not stop, even in his training with Dangai for Tensa Zangetsu, time was important. In addition to other occasions involving the Shirosaki.

What is this reply replying to?

However, for the bottom part, it actually isn't. Why? People here are convienently forgetting to remember that Zangetsu strictly needed to come into the outside world via a device Yoruichi borrowed from Urahara during Ichigo's Bankai Training. That device was the only way for Zangetsu to come out of the inner world, talk and interact with people, like Yoruichi, instead of just normally Ichigo. Why need a device like that if Zangetsu could physically materialize through the Quincy portal? It's ridiculously nonsensical.

Thats even more evidence that what Zangetsu did was just between him and Ichigo going on in Ichigo's head.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with Kukui

 

[Zzsax]

That doesn't explain the fact that ichigo physically disappeared into the Shadows...which is the main point of this argument.

 

[AstralKing7]

Which looks like it happened in his head

 

[Zzsax]

Lol shadow portal don't happen in people's head..especially when it is a thing in the series,it is used for dimensional travel.

Looking at the scans,ichigo completely disappears and the ground where he lay is empty....its not in his head if he left the scene completely.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Which looks like it happened in his head

This.

That wasnt Ichigo's actual real body, it happened in his head. It was Zangetsu taking Ichigos mind to his Inner World through the quincy portal since Ichigo didnt yet know how to go there mentally on his own. Making it look physical.

Him going there, actually really physically, would imply his Inner World is an actual real reality, which is obviously false unless we're seriously gonna suggest every single Soul Reaper are walking embodiments of pocket dimensions.

 

[Zzsax]

I should clarify,I am pretty neutral on this,just havent seen anything that completely debunks it yet.

 

[AstralKing7]

Like Kukui says it doesn't make sense for Zangetsu to even be there in the real world. It also still looks like it's in his head and you do understand how things in people's mind can happen right???


Shadow portal is being use symbolically to compare Ichigos inner world to a dimension imo which makes the most sense for him to use it

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lol what

 

[Zzsax]

Like Kukui says it doesn't make sense for Zangetsu to even be there in the real world. It also still looks like it's in his head and you do understand how things in people's mind can happen right???


Shadow portal is being use symbolically to compare Ichigos inner world to a dimension imo which makes the most sense for him to use it

There is nothing symbolic about shadow portal..there are two scenes obviously the fight with his zanpakutou occured in his inner world but the "I want to win" part is clearly not in his head..ichigo was even shocked time stopped.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm in the same position as Zzsax, so far what I'm seeing is complete nonsense with talks of symbolic shadows lol.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I disagree with time stop, but these have to be the dumbest reasonings possible to attempt to refute it.

Zanpakuto can manifest by themselves and symbolic shadows is weak.

 

[AstralKing7]

He was shocked Zangetsu appeared in front of him outa nowhere. Nowhere was it even referred to as time stop by Ichigo as well

It appears you guys haven't expanded on too much literature. Ichigos inner world being a dimension is symbolic as hell. Kubo is a writer which means that makes even more sense from literary point of view.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Ichigo's inner dimension is of skyscrapers to represent his potential and mental state. I have no idea where you're pulling symbolic Zangetsu shadows from, that's pretty weak of an argument.

There's such an easy way to disprove this with one scan in the future, yet you're arguing off things that make no sense.

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

isn't this the Bleach equivalent of Naruto characters having deep emotional Talks with one another in their shared mindscape, that's how I interpreted the scene anyway. because it's in Ichigo's mind, time has almost no relevancy

^^