Some slight adjustments

[Dr.Fix]

Kaido- Change his durability reasoning to being above everyone including WB, not Zunisha

BIg Mom- Change durability to reflect she needs to be weakened physically. Her mantal state is not relevant so much as after she releases her haki or is starving from her glandular codition.

Whitebead- Change his durability reasoning to just scaling from AP. The part about the admirals is unnesacary and misleading. A more accurate account would be:

It took the combined toll of aging, getting sick, going off his medicine, Squard's attack, and a heart attack before Akainu could damage him. . . . but that is likely too long.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask The Calaca to comment here.

 

[Dr.Fix]

BUMP

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask CinCameron20 and Damage3245 to comment here as well.

 

[Damage3245]

> Change his durability reasoning to being above everyone including WB

Can you elaborate on this point? Why would we scale his durability to being above Whitebeards?

I'm not sure I get your point about Big Mom. What's wrong with the way it is currently written?

 

[Eminiteable]

For Kaido's durability I suggest we wait either A) for Oden's chapter to end or B) for the Whitbeard pirates to make their appearance in wano.

As far as we know from what Oda has given us is that Kaido has been captured both by the Navy and the Yonko and sentenced to death, these attempts failed and so did the torturing; this suggests Kaido seems invulnerable to attacks from the Yonko and Admirals but we just don't know.

We do know that Kaido was only ever visibly damaged by Emma, so once we see how that happens we have no idea. The reason I bring up A & B is since we know Whitebeard was pissed at Roger for taking Oden willingly and we know what WB did for Ace so honestly it wouldn't surprise me if we see Prime beard vs Kaido; or at least an attempt, and if Kaido tanks all of Prime Beard's attacks then definitely he can have that reasoning.

 

[Dr.Fix]

That is unnecessary. It was already brought up they don't have the power to hurt him way back in his introduction. You can even read a long briefing of it here. Kaido objectively scales above WB. In any case his profile already takes that into account with his 6-B rating. The only problem is they don't reference it in said profile. Classic referancing error is all it is.

As for Big Mom I don't know how I can make that any simpler. She is only ever damaged when she is weakened such as when starving to death or just released her Haki. At all other times she is too powerful to be damaged, at least by high tiers and lower. Remember Luffy had to show her the the broke potrait twice because her mind being messed up wasn't enough without the release of Haki.

 

[The_Calaca]

Big Mom should have a weakness listing that emotional shock can weaken her durability a lot.

 

[Dr.Fix]

^Evidence???

 

[CinCameron20]

i don't think Kaido is ABOVE Whitebeard (I mean, he might be > Old WB, but that's speculation). I believe all of the Yonko have reason to scale to eachother.

Kaido and BM fought evenly (both held back for sure from what we know and nothing else). Kaido is implied to have fought Shanks on his way to intercept WB before the war on marineford. Kaido is stated to have fought the other Yonko and Marines in the past during his explanation of being "unkillable", and we can reasonably assume the Yonko are relative to eachother in power since they've been at odds for up to decades to now with no sign of giving ground to eachother.

If anything, I agree Kaido should AT LEAST be as durable as WB. It's possible it may be more-so, but we don't know his whole "can't be killed" situation yet.

In other words, if Whitebeard is 6-B in both AP and Durability, the same should be said for the other Yonko, who have been his rivals up to the point in which he died.

For the other points: agreed w/ Big Mom and Whitebeard.

 

[The_Calaca]

@Fix . . . What you're proposing is a weakness, not a durability description. She has 6-B Dura but can be weakened through emotional shock.

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Calaca again I ask, evidence/ Otherwise read what I posted above.

Emotional shock =/= reduction in power.

Emotional shock causes haki scream/burst causes reduction in power.

 

[The_Calaca]

Bege knew of it because he once saw that just dropping the portrait to the floor made Big Mom hurt her knees just from falling over them by her own weight.

 

[Damage3245]

Exactly. Calaca is correct here.

 

[Antvasima]

Calaca and CinCameron make sense to me.

 

[Eminiteable]

Ok honestly agree with the idea that Kaido is just some crazy durability even compared to the Yonko, but considering we're likely going to see on screen what he's capable of very soon it's worth waiting.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Calaca and CinCameron make sense to me.

They have different views :S Please read what I took the time to type @Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

Big Mom should have a weakness listing that emotional shock can weaken her durability a lot.

I don't think Kaido is ABOVE Whitebeard (I mean, he might be > Old WB, but that's speculation). I believe all of the Yonko have reason to scale to each other.

Kaido and BM fought evenly (both held back for sure from what we know and nothing else). Kaido is implied to have fought Shanks on his way to intercept WB before the war on marineford. Kaido is stated to have fought the other Yonko and Marines in the past during his explanation of being "unkillable", and we can reasonably assume the Yonko are relative to eachother in power since they've been at odds for up to decades to now with no sign of giving ground to eachother.

If anything, I agree Kaido should AT LEAST be as durable as WB. It's possible it may be more-so, but we don't know his whole "can't be killed" situation yet.

I was referring to this.

 

[Antvasima]

@Calaca again I ask, evidence/ Otherwise read what I posted above.

Emotional shock =/= reduction in power.

Emotional shock causes haki scream/burst causes reduction in power.

Anyway, you have a good point here. I am taking back my agreement with Calaca then.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I'll simplify this for you:

"I can lift a truck."

Has a very different meaning than:

"I can lift a truck with the tools in my garage."

Now relate this to the topic

Calaca says:

"emotional shock can weaken her durability a lot"

Has a very different meaning than:

"Emotional shock can make her release a massive amount of energy in the form of a scream, which can weaken her durability a lot."

 

[Damage3245]

@Dr. Fix; I don't think it is stated that the scream itself is what causes her to become weakened. More like when she's experiencing so much mentral stress / emotional shock that she screams, her body also loses its defensiveness at the same time.

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Dr. Fix; I don't think it is stated that the scream itself is what causes her to become weakened. More like when she's experiencing so much mentral stress / emotional shock that she screams, her body also loses its defensiveness at the same time.

I can't even take that seriously.

 

[CinCameron20]

Too be honest, I can't take the whole "Touching Mother Caramel's picture results in Big Mom having a temper tantrum that somehow lowers her durability immensely" seriously. Weird plot-point ngl.

Whether it's the scream or the emotional state that causes her durability to suffer, I don't think it even matters, as that's never ever going to pop up in the story again... I hope (Not to mention they both kind of go in hand in this type of situation anyways). Kind of a pointless argument anyways since this is a result from touching Mother Caramel's portrait and NOTHING ELSE.

 

[Xulrev]

Eh, it matters insofar as for Vs Battles she has a weakness for Empathic Manipulation, since that directly lowers her defensive capabilities.

People can hem and haw all they want on if it makes sense or not, but it's in black-and-white. Chapter 859, Bege confirms that Big Mom getting in a state of emotional distress physically weakens her body to the point that merely falling to the ground causes her kneecaps to get bloodied

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Xulrev Are you hopeful staff like @Ant won't click the link to see zero reference to "emotional distress" or are you under the impression you can call "that" "emotional distress" and it is law?

Either way that scan doesn't prove a thing. In the moments up to it they refer to BM releasing her haki in a scream. pretty likely "that" refers to weakened as Bege calls the second occurence here:


Potrait break>Scream her energy out>weakened.

That's as cut and dry as it gets.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Virtually no mention of mental state here.

 

[Xulrev]

I really would appreciate you stop making such outright silly and vapid accusations against myself every single One Piece thread, Dr Fix. It's growing tiresome.

The scans speak for themselves. I have no idea how your interpreting the scans and at this point, I rather don't care. The facts are there.

 

[Dr.Fix]

All I do is point out the facts. You should start responding to them instead of going in circles. It would be far more productive then:

You: Here is black and white proof of emotional distress causing weakness.

Me: where? that scan doesn't show as such

You: Stop being silly and accusing me. The scans speak for themselves. Facts are there.

Now I could respond its not there again but repeating myself would be insanity as defined by Einstein so I rather not go down that road.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Since Xulrev didn't have a counter and because I'm busy with work I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[Xulrev]

The counter doesn't need to exist, Fix. The entire context surrounding Mother Caramel and Big Mom's backstory makes it quite clear that she is emotionally distressed over the thought of losing Mother Caramel. I have no clue if you read Whole Cake Island all the way through yet or not, but if you have I suggest re-reading Big Mom's flashback to her childhood, it explains the entire thing.

The scans, again, speak for themselves if you know the context and what you're discussing.

 

[FullMetalLamps]

This shouldn't even be a discussion. Very obvious that the emotional distress from seeing her only picture of her dead mother causes her to lose her defensive resistance, since she's essentially having a tantrum.

The "THAT" Bege is referring to is clearly her "moment of shock."

 

[Antvasima]

After seeing the scans, I think that Xulrev seems to make sense.

Speaking of Big Mom's backstory, eating all of her adopted siblings and her caretaker when she was small is quite a gruesome concept by One Piece standards.

 

[Xulrev]

Speaking of Big Mom's backstory, eating all of her adopted siblings and her caretaker when she was small is quite a gruesome concept by One Piece standards.

Big Mom in general is quite gruesome by One Piece standards; Oda confirmed in an SBS that the only reason she's had so many children is that she would take husbands, by force after raiding ships or towns, for herself to populate her dream island.

Big Mom is a cannibalistic serial rapist that kills her own children in rage-induced eating binges. She's a psychopathic horror monster residing in the One Piece world, it's honestly quite obscene.

But yes thank you Ant for agreeing with the idea. Chapters 865 through 868 are her backstory for anyone else wanting to see why I draw the conclusions I do here

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, Big Mom is easily one of the most disgusting and evil characters in the entire series.

 

[Stefano4444]

Kaido- Change his durability reasoning to being above everyone including WB, not Zunisha

Personally, i think it would make sense for him to have Invulnerability rather than just higher durability, it was clearly enstablish that the guy was unkillable even for the standard of the verse, he guy even tried to kill himself, only to fail.

And before anyone say that he shouldn't, the page of the ability say:

- Many works of fiction consider extremely durable characters invulnerable, but this ability is only to be added onto a page if it is made clear that it is more than simply high durability and is not contradicted. In addition, the nature and specifics of the character's invulnerability must be mentioned to provide context and avoid the No Limits Fallacy.

Although it must be clearly that this Invulnerability work only with characters on the same Tier and below, as it would be wank to suggest that he can tank Tier 5 attacks, other that just like with Baldur, where are still methods to bypass/nullify the Invulnerability.

 

[Damage3245]

@Stefano; what you're describing is just him having high durability.

There is a contradiction against him having Invulnerability; he was able to be cut by Oden.

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Stefano we discussed immortality and invulnerability some time ago . The bottom line is Kaido doesn't fit the criteria. Unfortunatly he is a bit of limbo since the staff do not want to give him Invulnerability but neither do they hold his stats to a higher standard than the other top tiers.

@Ant I ask you to again look at the pages provided by both @Xulrev and myself and generate a better response. I clearly pointed out there is no mention of mental instability and even showed Bege calls her "like that" state "weakened".

@Damage's point is also insufficient when their only evidence is unprovable.

Think of it another way to simplify:

Santa can fly using Magic. That said, we can only objectively measure this magic by the amount of fuel in his airplane.

In this case Bg Mom is the airplane, she loses her fuel (Haki) and descends, and according to @Damage et al this is the result of magic powder/mental state as evidence by said loss of fuel.

Also please do not let personal feelings sway your reasoning. I do not know why you even brought up how much you dislike her given the discussion topic. All that does is show bias.

 

[Stefano4444]

@Stefano; what you're describing is just him having high durability.
There is a contradiction against him having Invulnerability; he was able to be cut by Oden.

It was hint that Oden was most likely able to due by using Advanced Haki (like Goken, which would give him Durability Negation) and his sword Enma.

If that was the case, then Kaido's Invulnerability wouldn't be contradict as it requid specific conditions to trully harm him, like with Baldur (God of War).

 

[Damage3245]

@Dr. Fix; that would imply that Big Mom's natural durability is the result of her constantly using Haki to defend herself.

The only time we see her use Haki to increase her durability is when she blocked Luffy's Kong Gun.

 

[Dr.Fix]

No actually it would suggest that Haki has some effect on all creatures even if they are not consciously using the black version of it. Actually makes sense given so many chracters have super-human stats without objective reason like other verses (Ki, Reiatsu, Chakra, furyoku, etc).

And there is no justification for shock>physical weakening.

Sorry but between the two actual loss of energy VS mental problems the former has a far clearer basis.