Some Minecraft Revisions (Tier 2 and up Edition)

[DaReaperMan]

Can someone answer the wolfin questions for helevete's sake!

 

[manu_zarri]

Also how do we know each minecraft world has its own space-time? If we do keep the entities and true form player key they would only be quite far into High 3-A

Like if you are talking about words as refered to servers.. is because they are totally differnt worlds. each servers have 4 realms, which are accessible only with portals, the fact that there is a limit for them, and because for what i remember the time clock there dosen't works like in the overworld

Why should we use 5-D for Low 1-C, 8-D for 1-C, and so on for Minecraft? I thought you needed to effect things at that range/damage being at that range to count

I don't understand what you meant with this

 

[DaReaperMan]

Like if you are talking about words as refered to servers.. is because they are totally differnt worlds. each servers have 4 realms, which are accessible only with portals, the fact that there is a limit for them, and because for what i remember the time clock there dosen't works like in the overworld

I don't understand what you meant with this

Okay.

Why should dimensional tiering apply is the jist of it

 

[manu_zarri]

Why should dimensional tiering apply is the jist of it

it's not dimensional tiering, it's literally Reallity-Fiction intraction, planes of existence, Dreams.

 

[DaReaperMan]

it's not dimensional tiering, it's literally Reallity-Fiction intraction, planes of existence, Dreams.

So essentially what I'm getting from this is Minecraft is baseline 6D? Because I don't see where 7D or 8D come from

 

[manu_zarri]

So essentially what I'm getting from this is Minecraft is baseline 6D? Because I don't see where 7D or 8D come from

Ultima already said the scaling.
but whatever:

Minecraft World = Low 2-C
the Dreams hierarchy = Low 1-C (5D, 6D)
The Player = 1-C (7D)
The entities = 1-C (8D)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ultima already said the scaling.
but whatever:

Minecraft World = Low 2-C
the Dreams hierarchy = Low 1-C (5D, 6D)
The Player = 1-C (7D)
The entities = 1-C (8D)

The dreams are the minecraft world are they not?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I said I think it should only be Low 1-C because 1-C is based on claiming that one dream is more real than another, which is against what the poem says.

The thing isn't too complicated. The universe exists, and is sentient. The universe is dreaming. These dreams are the real world, games, stories, etc.

It's true self views all of these possible realities as mere imagination and dreams, and can create them by just fantasizing about them.

Hence, low 1-C. But "waking up from one dream to another" simply refers to going from one game/story to another, not that one dream transcends another.

 

[manu_zarri]

The dreams are the minecraft world are they not?

Ultima proved that they trascends minecraft world, also someone before proved they are infinite.

Low 1-A steve and 1-A entities, TLT vs Steve when?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

People trying to argue Notch was clearly trying to establish higher levels of an ontological hierarchy when I'm fairly sure Notch doesn't know what ontological means.

I require consistency to accept Tier 1 stuff. The end poem is not consistency. Even if I ignored all context and took this at the twisted face value I am ostensibly expected to take it as, I would not accept it for Tier 1 rating in a verse that otherwise displays none of this. So let me make this absolutely clear to you all: as I am knowledgeable on the verse, I know for a fact that there is nothing in it that would convince me of Tier 1 block game. Not even for "lol meme haha". Shocking, I know.

 

[manu_zarri]

People trying to argue Notch was clearly trying to establish higher levels of an ontological hierarchy when I'm fairly sure Notch doesn't know what ontological means.

the poem wasn't maded by Notch..

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Notch was the one that added it to the game. I realize it wasn't written by him directly. Irrelevant to my point, since I was more just poking fun at a goofy ass idea with that, but aye.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That's still not an argument that stands on its legs. Consistency only comes into play if... well, it could be inconsistent.

First of all, while Notch might not understand ontological, if you told him "the poem says the reader is the universe" he would most likely agree. Because that is not something you assume, it something the text states.

If you told him "it says our lifes as humans are just dreams of the universe", I wouldn't doubt he'd still say yes, because the text verbatim says so.

And if you doubt it, so what? You can't prove that.



And what is this inconsistent with? Where does the needing dozens of backup feats for a tier come from? The universe/player is only explained once in the story. The manner in which it is explained is blatantly Low 1-C.

If, let's say in a story, a god appeared and claimed that he viewed this entire reality as a dream, a mere figment of its imagination that it had created many different versions of for every little fantasy it had, would that character not be allowed to have a profile because "it needs to be consistent"?

No, of course not. But if such a character appeared in Dora the Explorer, suddenly there would be a problem.

 

[manu_zarri]

No, of course not. But if such a character appeared in Dora the Explorer, suddenly there would be a problem.

or Dragon Ball

but ye, i agree with Low 1-C

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's still not an argument that stands on its legs. Consistency only comes into play if... well, it could be inconsistent.

First of all, while Notch might not understand ontological, if you told him "the poem says the reader is the universe" he would most likely agree. Because that is not something you assume, it something the text states.

If you told him "it says our lifes as humans are just dreams of the universe", I wouldn't doubt he'd still say yes, because the text verbatim says so.

And if you doubt it, so what? You can't prove that.



And what is this inconsistent with? Where does the needing dozens of backup feats for a tier come from? The universe/player is only explained once in the story. The manner in which it is explained is blatantly Low 1-C.

If, let's say in a story, a god appeared and claimed that he viewed this entire reality as a dream, a mere figment of its imagination that it had created many different versions of for every little fantasy it had, would that character not be allowed to have a profile because "it needs to be consistent"?

No, of course not. But if such a character appeared in Dora the Explorer, suddenly there would be a problem.

It is an argument that stands on its legs. Significant evidence is needed. A vague poem at the end of the game explicitly mentioned to just be "hey chap, well done" isn't significant evidence, hell we can hardly agree if the damn things exist or not. My vote stands.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It is an argument that stands on its legs. Significant evidence is needed. A vague poem at the end of the game explicitly mentioned to just be "hey chap, well done" isn't significant evidence, hell we can hardly agree if the damn things exist or not. My vote stands.

Oh, vague? Truly? This seemed pretty clear cut to me.

and the universe said you are not separate from every other thing

and the universe said you are the universe tasting itself, talking to itself, reading its own code

Or maybe this?

And the player was the universe.

Yes, they are more subdle in the earlier parts of the poem, where green is about to tell you that you created the universe, but blue interrupts to say it in a less raw manner like this:

Sometimes the player created a small, private world that was soft and warm and simple. Sometimes hard, and cold, and complicated. Sometimes it built a model of the universe in its head; flecks of energy, moving through vast empty spaces. Sometimes it called those flecks "electrons" and "protons"

But are you really going to tell me that the two entities, who have laid out that you create worlds through dreaming (quotes in my above comments), and state that these worlds are real

Sometimes when they are deep in dreams, I want to tell them, they are building true worlds in reality.

are subdle?

No, there is nothing unclear here. The message of the half hour poem is not "you beat the game, congrats!" either.

 

[Planck69]

Honestly, I have no idea how someone can look at the poem and go "well, it's just a congratulations and all metaphorical with no meaning!"

Ricsi makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Because the creator literally said so and we have rules stating we can use word of god when it ain't contradicted, which it ain't here

christsake

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Regardless. I'll contact more staff, I guess. Here's the current tallies with a few tibits more. Forgive me for misspelled names, its 6:30 and my handwriting is shit tier.

Upgrade (21, 3 staff): Emirp sumitpo, ShakeResounding, Zencha, OnosokunoSonic, Saikou the Lewd King, Rabbit2002, The Wright Way, Milly Rocking Bandit, Maverick Zero X, Manu Zarri, Planck, Ricsi-Viragosi, MrKerf, Akuma No Hissetsu, Akuto123, Rxthegamer, Leotamer, Fastestthingalive50, InfiniteDay, ZetaMarishi, Livinmeme

Deletion (17, 5 staff): Mr. Bambu, DatOneWeeb, Bobsican, Alonik, Yar R Agi 7k, StrymULTRA, Moritzva, Rikimarox, Paul Frank, Delta333, Everything12, GyroNutz, DaReaperMan, The Impress, Expectro2000xxx, FinePoint, ProfessorKukui4Life

???: DragonLord mentions support in equal parts of upgrade and deleting profiles.

Bold is obviously staff, italics are those that agree with the concept of an upgrade but disagree on where they actually land. Until a staff consensus is reached, by overwhelming majority, this thread will continue to go in circles, I believe.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh, vague? Truly? This seemed pretty clear cut to me.

Or maybe this?



Yes, they are more subdle in the earlier parts of the poem, where green is about to tell you that you created the universe, but blue interrupts to say it in a less raw manner like this:


But are you really going to tell me that the two entities, who have laid out that you create worlds through dreaming (quotes in my above comments), and state that these worlds are real

are subdle?

No, there is nothing unclear here. The message of the half hour poem is not "you beat the game, congrats!" either.

It seems damn clear cut to me that it isn't real, given the, yes, vagueness of the poem and how the creator mentioned it wasn't intended to mean shit. It's fascinating how people will cherry-pick what he says when it suits them and blithely ignore it when it doesn't. Absolutely mind-boggling.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Honestly, I have no idea how someone can look at the poem and go "well, it's just a congratulations and all metaphorical with no meaning!"

Ricsi makes a lot of sense to me.

^ this

 

[manu_zarri]

just because the poem contains metaphors, dosen't means that the poem is a metaphor. it's fallacious.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ignoring the response.

For those who haven't done a good ole ctrl+F of our editing rules on site, I suggest you do so with the phrase "word of god". Might yield an interesting revelation.

 

[The_Impress]

The point of contention isn't what's in the poem, it's that WoG contradicts its validity towards the lore.

Stop misrepresenting the point and debate that

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Bambu and DatOneWeeb. This seems to be flowery language about the relationship between a player and a game, and should not be taken literally, especially as word of god states this outright.

 

[KieranH10]

If WoG states that the end poem is not relevant to the actual levels then I see no reason why it should be used.

Even if it does supposedly give a reason for tiers, if the devs or whatever have stated it isn't meant to be canon,it then it shouldn't be considered such.

If it's disregarded tho, we still need to discuss creative modes validity.

 

[Fixxed]

Hence, low 1-C. But "waking up from one dream to another" simply refers to going from one game/story to another, not that one dream transcends another.

I have question


Low 1-C | Low Complex Multiverse level: Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)


I don't see the player create/Destroy the Entirety space In 5D Structure?

what i see the player is only creating universe, but not creating 5d Universe Structure

does the player still have a classification as L1C?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I have question


Low 1-C | Low Complex Multiverse level: Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)


I don't see the player create/Destroy the Entirety space In 5D Structure?

what i see the player is only creating universe, but not creating 5d Universe Structure

does the player still have a classification as L1C?

Their dream is tier 2.

Their true self views this dream as simply a fantasy they are having. Hence, their true self is above tier 2.

Note that "affect, create or destroy" doesn't refer to a whole Low 1-C reality. The same way how an ant and a supernova are both 3-D, something that is simply 5-D and something that can destroy a whole 5-D reality are both Low 1-C (as long as you can prove that being higher D is quantitavely superior, which reality-fiction interactions do).

 

[manu_zarri]

Even if it does supposedly give a reason for tiers, if the devs or whatever have stated it isn't meant to be canon,it then it shouldn't be considered such.

they never stated it wasn't canon.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If WoG states that the end poem is not relevant to the actual levels then I see no reason why it should be used.

Even if it does supposedly give a reason for tiers, if the devs or whatever have stated it isn't meant to be canon,it then it shouldn't be considered such.

If it's disregarded tho, we still need to discuss creative modes validity.

The point of contention isn't what's in the poem, it's that WoG contradicts its validity towards the lore.

Stop misrepresenting the point and debate that

Ignoring the response.

For those who haven't done a good ole ctrl+F of our editing rules on site, I suggest you do so with the phrase "word of god". Might yield an interesting revelation.

And for all other comments that say "WoG says it's fake", here's the response:


The WoG does not say that. It was countered, several times.

Firstly:
As said above, over and over, being a metaphor does not mean something cannot be indexed. The story of Midas is about how money can't buy you happiness. The main character has the power to transmute anything and anyone he touches into gold. Revered Insanity, a chinese novel, presents the MC as a metaphor for capitalism, including the worst of it like the MC disregarding their own family's lifes because they have nothing of worth to give him, but he is still an indexable character since he is a cultivator with magical powers. And I can go on, being a metaphor=/=being non-indexable.

Secondly:
This is what the metaphor is about, not about simply beating a game and getting congratulated for it (which contradicts everything in the interview to such a fundamental level that I have to wonder if it was even read).

The fact that we write the stories of our own lives is very interesting. We're hardwired to be storytellers, and when we look back on our lives we build them into stories. And the more we find out about the nature of human consciousness, the clearer it is that we are making up stories after the facts a lot of the time, to make sense of decisions that we've made at a totally unconscious level: we have to make them into a story in order to navigate our own personal universe.

When someone goes into therapy, for example, you see how they can build two totally different stories about their life from exactly the same materials. When you're playing a computer game, especially a very open one, you're creating a self and an epic adventure that you're the hero of. But you're also doing that in real life when you're walking down the street.

Thirdly, you know what? He states like he actually felt that the voices were real, as if he truly was being told what to do by the universe. Let alone it not being literal for the game, he described writing it as if it was real to our world.

Yes, and by the end of it I actually felt like I was taking dictation from the universe. Now, I'm sure there are many ways of interpreting that experience that don't require cosmic voices from unknown entities to be talking to each other, but it actually did feel like I was taking dictation. So perhaps it is real wisdom in the story, who knows?

At no point in the WoG is it claimed that it does not actually hold true for the "lore" of minecraft. It is stated that it's meant to be out of the blue, but subverting diversions hardly makes an event not apply to a narrative, does it?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

From what I've seen so far I 100% support the Minecraft upgrade for now as it seems pretty obvious to me unless I see some real counter arguments instead of saying "flowery language" (which isn't gonna cut it) then my vote still stands

 

[KieranH10]

I'm neutral for now.
I'd like to know where the WoG comes from if that's ok, since I cannot seem to find it in the thread.

 

[Leotamer]

Moritzva here:

Here is the link again.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

From what I had read from the thread I agree with Ricsi

 

[KieranH10]

Briefly reading through that, I can see multiple times where they did mention that they were directed to just write, not taking the game into account. Which could question the validity of relevance.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Briefly reading through that, I can see multiple times where they did mention that they were directed to just write, not taking the game into account. Which could question the validity of relevance.

To be honest, I don't see how this would apply. While he knows "embarrassingly little" compared to hardcore players, he has played the game.

He even mentions if he was glad he didn't have to write about the origin of dragons but was left to do what he wished.

While yes, it's widely out of tone for the rest of Minecraft, it is still a part of the story that is indexable. Notch did read and approve of it.

 

[KieranH10]

I'm still neutral for now.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Holy shit, I thought this thread was about Warcraft, but not, it's about Minecraft lol

 

[Livinmeme]

Anyway i agree with Low 1-C as just seem obvious also why the words of god explaining the cosmology would be flowery languaje?

 

[Livinmeme]

one thing is using pretty words without meaning style suggs and other thing is that the words have weigth