Nasuverse: small CRT for some servants

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Honestly, I want to wait for another Nasuverse revision first, but since it hasn't been made, I'll add a more stuff i guess.


Natural environment of Imaginary Number Space

Imaginary Number Space is a higher dimensional alternative space used for time travel, dimensional travel, etc. Some of the things that the INS environment has are:

• Existence Erasure, Information Manipulation, Data Manipulation : INS could erase existence from reality, could makes a life form lose all its meaning, it is a place where dangerous information that can harm a life form is stored. BB uses INS to store life forms as a data.
• Deconstruction : Imaginary Number Space could break the Ether beings into data to store elsewhere, make people wander eternally as unfixed random numbers, and could make existence collapse.
• Chaos Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Illusion Creation : INS environment is exactly like primordial chaos, and the place where innumerable curses and delusions flourish.
• Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Causality Manipulation : INS is a higher dimensional plane, a plane where "direction, distance, time" change randomly (or rather, they cannot be defined). Sheba uses INS to invert cause and effect.
• Vector Manipulation : Void Space is a world existing on a negative vector. Can change direction and distance
• Possibly Void Manipulation : It stated as a nothingness space where time is meaningless.
• Sense Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Memory Manipulation : Shown here
• Status Effect Inducement, Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation : Shown here
• Temperature Manipulation : Shown here

So, people who are able to manipulate Imaginary Number Space will get the ability as noted above, it will scale BB since she is a master of INS who can manipulate it at will, also the internal body of Kingprotea contains Imaginary Number Space, and Passionlip who has a pocket dimensions between her chest which is literally an Imaginary Number Space. I don't know who else is scaling, if you guys know please remind me.

---

Saver should have Higher-Dimensional Existence due to has an existence that beyond space and time.

Gilgamesh (CCC key) should have Resistance Negation via Ten Crown for being able to remove BB's resistance, since the Ten Crown can make things non-existent. Should have Paralysis Inducement with Chain Of Heaven.

Caliburn can negate Heracles' Reactive Evolution on the Fate/Stay Night route.

Maxwell should have Abstract Existence (Type 2) since demons are passively born from human desires, as already been accepted here.

Time Stop for Achilles via Diatrekhon Aster Lonkhe.

Instinctive Reaction for Musashi : Musashi has the Accel Turn skill thanks to her being able to copy Ishtar's skills, thus allowing her to do an instant dodge. and should be includes da Vinci's Accel Turn feat inspired by Ishtar's Accel Turn

Accel Turn B
A Skill inspired by the goddess Ishtar (summer).
As a skilled driver, this lets her perform an emergency dodge at critical moments.

Servant Physiology

• More Resistance to Spatial Manipulation : servant was able to survive Altera's sword slash that was able to cut the dimension itself.
• More Resistance to Time Manipulation : Magic Resistance makes servants resistant to magecraft and that includes magecraft belonging to the emiya family which is able to slow down and speed up time. It has been accepted here. Also Time Stop, Servant was able to move in stopped time

TL;DR

• BB, Kingprotea, Passionlip etc should have the ability of Imaginary Number Space.
• Higher-Dimensional Existence for Saver.
• Gilgamesh should have Resistance Negation and Paralysis Inducement.
• Caliburn should have Reactive Evolution negation.
• Type 2 AE for Maxwell.
• Time Stop for Achilles.
• Instinctive Reaction for Musashi.
• More Resistance for Servant Physiology like Spatial and Time Manipulation.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Everything here looks good and if this gets passed and INS is considered a higher Dimensional realm then wouldn't Gilgamesh be eligible for Higher Dimensional Existence??

"the Far Side of the Moon (月の裏側, Tsuki no Uragawa?), an imaginary space known as the trash bin that is used for storing malicious information and imaginary numbers. Sealed off as "Not For Use" information, it is a higher dimension where the light within the photon crystals is jumbled. It is the “exterior of the world”, and can be called the "Garden of the Fallen" built from imaginary numbers in contrast to the Near Side being a cell where the "light of heavenly fire" is imprisoned."

And seeing as how because of his power he ends up chillin in the far side would that qualify or is there some sort of scaling discrepancy that prevents it??

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Everything here looks good and if this gets passed and INS is considered a higher Dimensional realm then wouldn't Gilgamesh be eligible for Higher Dimensional Existence??

"the Far Side of the Moon (月の裏側, Tsuki no Uragawa?), an imaginary space known as the trash bin that is used for storing malicious information and imaginary numbers. Sealed off as "Not For Use" information, it is a higher dimension where the light within the photon crystals is jumbled. It is the “exterior of the world”, and can be called the "Garden of the Fallen" built from imaginary numbers in contrast to the Near Side being a cell where the "light of heavenly fire" is imprisoned."

And seeing as how because of his power he ends up chillin in the far side would that qualify or is there some sort of scaling discrepancy that prevents it??

no, Gilgamesh is not a higher dimensional being, he is still a servant in the extra series and has a 3D body structure like other servants. exist in a higher dimensional plane =/= become a higher dimensional being.

If you want to upgrade Gil as a higher dimensional being then you can make a CRT about True Heroic Spirit, because it's debatable whether True Heroic Spirit HDE or not. Unfortunately the CRT about that has died and do not know if it will continue.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The Imaginary Scramble event (interestingly enough, it chronologically occurred just after the prologue of Lostbelt 5 during the testing for the Nautilus upgrades they mentioned, but the event was released after the Lostbelt itself) added some lore about Imaginary Number Space. Not sure about the implications, but it is mentioned that both Imaginary Number Space and Primordial Chaos contain all possibilities:

Osakabehime: Ugh, I don't know how this Real Numbers Imaginary Numbers stuff works. This magecraft talk is too meta for me. Scathach-Skadi: Unlike my Norse mythology, which viewed the world as born dualistic, other religions often had a defined concept of primordial chaos. Heaven and earth, warm and cold, good and evil, all united harmoniously. Therefore the primordial chaos is a grandmother of the world, which includes all possibilities... The Imaginary Number Space is a space that contains as many possibilities as it. I believe the primordial chaos contains all possibilities for it has everything mixed in it, while Imaginary Numbers contain all possibilities for they are unobservable. Thus, this is the inner side of our world, unobservable territory. A place not even detectable by the currently existing laws of physics. Meaning all possibilities can be hypothesized there. Fujimaru: Huh, unobservable...? / You keep saying that, but I can see outside the window... Scathach-Skadi: Huhu. You noticed an important point. You are not truly seeing this spiraling rainbow. If you are take this place as imaginary numbers and us as real numbers, you must know that those two kinds of numbers cannot be counted on the same operation. Our Imaginary Dive technology enables us to exceptionally face Imaginary Numbers, but the decisive divide between us persists. Thus, we misobserve the Imaginary Numbers. This rainbow-like imagery is merely an illusion project by each of us' own senses. In fact, you and I are seeing the rainbow differently. If the Imaginary Numbers had any dwellers, they should not be able to properly observe our world either. As long as this divide exists, Imaginary Numbers and Real Numbers are mutually untouchable, unable to as much scratch each other. Rest assured. ~Imaginary Scramble - Chapter 1

---

As much as I like cats, I think you used the wrong link for "time is meaningless", since it links to a cat gallery.
On that note, I was planning to cite Imaginary Number Space to add Time Stop Resistance to Servant Physiology on a lengthy CRT I am working on. Though it might be better to suggest it here since it is relevant to the Imaginary Number Space narrative.

It would be:
Time Stop: Able to function within a sea of Imaginary Number Space, which lacks a flow of time.

---

Only disagreement I have is with Caliburn negating Reactive Evolution.
Caliburn just had enough firepower to take 7 of Berserker's lives. Heracles only gains resistance after he heals.
When Rin used four Jewels to fire a blast capable of killing Berserker once, it was stated that if she used five times the amount of jewels for that blast she could've taken six lives instead.

Spoiler: Firepower being enough to take multiple of Berserker's lives

Q: With Berserker's Noble Phantasm God Hand, you gain resistance to an attack once you're hit by it, but do you only gain this resistance by having died once? Would the same attack be effective multiple times as long as it was before he died? <Madao Gingetsu> Nasu: You don't have to die. For example... if you were to take fire damage, once you recover you would gain +100 resistance to fire. Takeuchi: Oh, feels like it has been toned-down. Wouldn't it have completely nullified it before? Nasu: I said it won't work, but I don't think I've ever said it'll be negated. BB: "Mine is to nullify all attacks, Macho-san's is to triple his defense! What's the difference!?" Heracles: "It's not even close (to your hacked ability)!" Takeuchi: No matter how you put it, it's an overpowered skill. ~Unlimited Blade Works Animation Material I

"I can't wait that long! It's fine, we're going to go kill them right now!" " " The giant silently objects. It is his instinct. Berserker has an intuition like Saber's when it comes to fighting. The enemies can certainly be mowed away easily. But it will be a different story if Servant Saber has recovered enough to use her Noble Phantasm. Berserker will not yield to a mere holy sword, but there is a small chance. His instinct tells him that if he is to fight that Servant, he should engage her in perfect condition. "...What? Five should be enough, right? They are no match for you even without the God Hand. Or what? Are you going to let them go after they made fun of me so much?" ~Fate route: Dawn in the ruins

"Do you get it? Berserker died from the attack right now, but he still has five more lives. Fufu, too bad Rin. Berserker would have disappeared if you used five times the jewels you just used." ~Fate route: Twelve Labors

Well, about this Tiger Dojo. I don't think the choice was wrong, so why did it end up like this, senior student? It's just lack of magical energy. Saber recovered enough magical energy to be able to use Excalibur, but she didn't have enough to spend on her Noble Phantasm. I don't know if that weak Excalibur could take off even two of Berserker's lives. ~Fate route: Tiger Dojo 8

 

[John985]

Base on the talk in discord, only the reactive evolution is the problem.

And agree with everything else, except of reactive evolution.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Yeah, that RE negation is the only thing wrong because we have always know that the only ways to kill Heracles is with twelve different methods or with a few greatly powerful attacks to take various lives at the same time before he could adapt.

And if Musashi get IR wouldn't also get it Ishtar since, well, it's the creator of the thing?

About the characters scaling to IN, don't the gods scale to it or I'm remembering wrong?

 

[John985]

Yeah Ishtar should get it as well. But I dont think Summer Ishtar have a profile.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

As much as I like cats, I think you used the wrong link for "time is meaningless", since it links to a cat gallery.

Sorry for the mistake, i like cats too.

Fixed now.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

The Imaginary Scramble event (interestingly enough, it chronologically occurred just after the prologue of Lostbelt 5 during the testing for the Nautilus upgrades they mentioned, but the event was released after the Lostbelt itself) added some lore about Imaginary Number Space. Not sure about the implications, but it is mentioned that both Imaginary Number Space and Primordial Chaos contain all possibilities:

Osakabehime: Ugh, I don't know how this Real Numbers Imaginary Numbers stuff works. This magecraft talk is too meta for me. Scathach-Skadi: Unlike my Norse mythology, which viewed the world as born dualistic, other religions often had a defined concept of primordial chaos. Heaven and earth, warm and cold, good and evil, all united harmoniously. Therefore the primordial chaos is a grandmother of the world, which includes all possibilities... The Imaginary Number Space is a space that contains as many possibilities as it. I believe the primordial chaos contains all possibilities for it has everything mixed in it, while Imaginary Numbers contain all possibilities for they are unobservable. Thus, this is the inner side of our world, unobservable territory. A place not even detectable by the currently existing laws of physics. Meaning all possibilities can be hypothesized there. Fujimaru: Huh, unobservable...? / You keep saying that, but I can see outside the window... Scathach-Skadi: Huhu. You noticed an important point. You are not truly seeing this spiraling rainbow. If you are take this place as imaginary numbers and us as real numbers, you must know that those two kinds of numbers cannot be counted on the same operation. Our Imaginary Dive technology enables us to exceptionally face Imaginary Numbers, but the decisive divide between us persists. Thus, we misobserve the Imaginary Numbers. This rainbow-like imagery is merely an illusion project by each of us' own senses. In fact, you and I are seeing the rainbow differently. If the Imaginary Numbers had any dwellers, they should not be able to properly observe our world either. As long as this divide exists, Imaginary Numbers and Real Numbers are mutually untouchable, unable to as much scratch each other. Rest assured. ~Imaginary Scramble - Chapter 1

---

As much as I like cats, I think you used the wrong link for "time is meaningless", since it links to a cat gallery.
On that note, I was planning to cite Imaginary Number Space to add Time Stop Resistance to Servant Physiology on a lengthy CRT I am working on. Though it might be better to suggest it here since it is relevant to the Imaginary Number Space narrative.

It would be:
Time Stop: Able to function within a sea of Imaginary Number Space, which lacks a flow of time.

---

Only disagreement I have is with Caliburn negating Reactive Evolution.
Caliburn just had enough firepower to take 7 of Berserker's lives. Heracles only gains resistance after he heals.
When Rin used four Jewels to fire a blast capable of killing Berserker once, it was stated that if she used five times the amount of jewels for that blast she could've taken six lives instead.

Spoiler: Firepower being enough to take multiple of Berserker's lives

Q: With Berserker's Noble Phantasm God Hand, you gain resistance to an attack once you're hit by it, but do you only gain this resistance by having died once? Would the same attack be effective multiple times as long as it was before he died? <Madao Gingetsu> Nasu: You don't have to die. For example... if you were to take fire damage, once you recover you would gain +100 resistance to fire. Takeuchi: Oh, feels like it has been toned-down. Wouldn't it have completely nullified it before? Nasu: I said it won't work, but I don't think I've ever said it'll be negated. BB: "Mine is to nullify all attacks, Macho-san's is to triple his defense! What's the difference!?" Heracles: "It's not even close (to your hacked ability)!" Takeuchi: No matter how you put it, it's an overpowered skill. ~Unlimited Blade Works Animation Material I

"I can't wait that long! It's fine, we're going to go kill them right now!" " " The giant silently objects. It is his instinct. Berserker has an intuition like Saber's when it comes to fighting. The enemies can certainly be mowed away easily. But it will be a different story if Servant Saber has recovered enough to use her Noble Phantasm. Berserker will not yield to a mere holy sword, but there is a small chance. His instinct tells him that if he is to fight that Servant, he should engage her in perfect condition. "...What? Five should be enough, right? They are no match for you even without the God Hand. Or what? Are you going to let them go after they made fun of me so much?" ~Fate route: Dawn in the ruins

"Do you get it? Berserker died from the attack right now, but he still has five more lives. Fufu, too bad Rin. Berserker would have disappeared if you used five times the jewels you just used." ~Fate route: Twelve Labors

Well, about this Tiger Dojo. I don't think the choice was wrong, so why did it end up like this, senior student? It's just lack of magical energy. Saber recovered enough magical energy to be able to use Excalibur, but she didn't have enough to spend on her Noble Phantasm. I don't know if that weak Excalibur could take off even two of Berserker's lives. ~Fate route: Tiger Dojo 8

So what abilities do you want to add?

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

About the characters scaling to IN, don't the gods scale to it or I'm remembering wrong?

For what reason?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

So what abilities do you want to add?

Just Time Stop resistance.

The Imaginary Scramble quote can be used as additional supporting evidence for infinite parallel worlds, though I am not sure if others can take something more from it.

 

[Vietthai96]

Disagree with:
1. like people said, RE negate
2. Resistance Negation, no bypass resistance through sheer power is not Resistance Negation, it just that your sheer power overpowering enemy resistance, or enemy resistance have weakness when it come to stronger power
3. Void Manipulation: It literally callled imaginary number space, time is meaningless doesn't mean it have no time, and the later dialog about no concept of time more like a flowery, metaphor language to go with the dialog time is meaningless

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Resistance Negation, no bypass resistance through sheer power is not Resistance Negation, it just that your sheer power overpowering enemy resistance, or enemy resistance have weakness when it come to stronger power

what about Ten Crown? Gil can passively make things non-existent via Ten Crown, it allows him to dispel BBs resistance.

Void Manipulation: It literally callled imaginary number space, time is meaningless doesn't mean it have no time, and the later dialog about no concept of time more like a flowery, metaphor language to go with the dialog time is meaningless

but it's literally expressed as nothingness, the word "space" refers to the realm, I think.

Surtr was able to interact and manipulate void space, noted "possibly void manipulation" on his profile.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Just Time Stop resistance.

The Imaginary Scramble quote can be used as additional supporting evidence for infinite parallel worlds, though I am not sure if others can take something more from it.

Okay, i'll add it.

can this scan get probability manipulation ability?

surtr piled the impossible on top of the impossible on himself by interacting with void space.

 

[Vietthai96]

what about Ten Crown? Gil can passively render anything nonexistent via Ten Crown, it allows him to dispel BBs resistance.

but it's literally expressed as nothingness, the word "space" refers to the realm, I think.

Surtr was able to interact and manipulate void space, noted "possibly void manipulation" on his profile.

1. Iirc Ten Crown was already on his profile, but ehhh
2. Where??
3. Then it should not on his profile, unless point 2 have legit evidences

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

1. Iirc Ten Crown was already on his profile, but ehhh

so Resistance Negation based on Subjective Reality would be fine?

2. Where??

Here and here i guess

3. Then it should not on his profile, unless point 2 have legit evidences

someone must have a better scan than me, that's why it exists as "possibly Void Manipulation".

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

For what reason?

Not sure, I think I vaguely remember some things from gods scaling to IN but I'm not sure, that's why I asked it.

 

[TypeOU]

Caliburn can negate Heracles' Reactive Evolution on the Fate/Stay Night route.

it just killed him multiple times at once.

Instinctive Reaction for Musashi : Musashi has the Accel Turn skill thanks to her being able to copy Ishtar's skills, thus allowing her to do an instant dodge.

not what instant dodges mean.

Everything else seems fine

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

not what instant dodges mean.

So what you mean? Please elaborate.

 

[TypeOU]

So what you mean? Please elaborate.

an instant dodge means dodging in little to no time
instinctive reaction means dodging... instinctively.
It's not the same thing at all.

 

[Tarang123]

Sorta disagree with EE, I don’t think the scan says anything quite like that. Everything else seems good at a glance

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Sorta disagree with EE, I don’t think the scan says anything quite like that. Everything else seems good at a glance

Not says like what?
Actually it has been accepted on the Servant Physiology page

Existence Erasure: Heroic Spirits can survive within the Far Side of the Moon without being erased as long as they stay awake.

an instant dodge means dodging in little to no time
instinctive reaction means dodging... instinctively.
It's not the same thing at all.

Yes, it's an instant dodge, but it's also implied as an instinctive reaction because Davinci's Accel Turn which is said to be inspired by Ishtar's Accel Turn, has this feat

Accel Turn B
A skill inspired by the goddess of Summer, Ishtar.
As an excellent driver, it is possible to make emergency evasive measures when she feels like "Now's the time!

and it's been accepted on this wiki as an instinctive reaction

 

[Tarang123]

Not says like what?
Actually it was already accepted on the Servant Physiology page

If that’s the case, then I agree with everything

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I believe Arjuna and Aśvatthāman were in Primordial Chaos rather than Imaginary Number Space (though the two are stated to be similar and are stated to be a place where nothingness exists).

They seem to be in a weird time stop where they will be erased within a moment, but that moment requires an infinite amount of time to pass (thus making time meaningless).

The rift between worlds. The inside of nothingness. The gap between heaven and earth. The space outside the universe. Here, where a single moment spans an eternity, only he, and the few beings he acknowledges, are able to exist. ~Lostbelt No.4 Saṃsāra of Genesis and Terminus, Yugakshetra — The Relic Called Falsehood

Aśvatthāman I knew it. I figured I'd find you here. Really pisses me off that you've been slacking. ??? ...I have not been slacking off. Aśvatthāman I know that. I'm guessing this is the end... The place where Arjuna sends all the so-called failures he erases. A big old trash heap with no shape or form. Just different concepts floating around every which way. I figured you must still be drifting around here back when I saw you turn into Surya's light itself. ??? Of course you knew. You were the one who said that. Aśvatthāman Ugh, is there anyone more tightly wound than you? Freakin' infuriating. ??? ... Aśvatthāman All right then, let's do this. We've only got a moment to pull it off...even if time is basically meaningless here. Here's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna use everything I've got to pull you out of here, and you're gonna use everything you've got to climb the hell out. ??? What do I have to do? Aśvatthāman It's easy. All we gotta do is be ourselves. Long as we do that, we should be able to connect. ??? ...All right. Let's do it. If there is no concept of time here, all the better. I want to keep going until I'm satisfied. If the time we experience here has no meaning, that means we can use as much of it as we like. So why just go back as I am now if I could use this time to train and get even stronger? Aśvatthāman The hell? At any moment of existing in this space, we could be torn to shreds, and you wanna TRAIN here!? What the hell is WRONG with you!? ??? I'm just going to do the same thing Arjuna did. Now that I know how far he pushed himself, I have to do the same to meet him on even ground. ~Lostbelt No.4 Saṃsāra of Genesis and Terminus, Yugakshetra — Together With You, At the End of the Eternity Known as a Moment

---

can this scan get probability manipulation ability?

surtr piled the impossible on top of the impossible on himself by interacting with void space.

It is a reliable statement since it comes from Ophelia whose Mystic Eyes allows her to view her target's possibilities and delay events from happening. She is also able to distinguish whether something is impossible/not-possible and something being highly unlikely:

My Mystic Eye is one of prolongation. Its rank is Jewel. It lets me see possibilities. You could say it's a form of precognition. Once I see something, I can pin it in place...but that only lets me temporarily halt possibilities I do not desire from coming to pass. Its true nature lies in seeing the myriad possibilities before me. So then, what's this? Now that we're trapped in our Coffins, the possibility of us escaping the death that approaches us is... ... ... ...distant. Far too distant. It may not truly be zero, but it might as well be. No matter how far I stretch...I can't reach it. I can't hope to pin down anything. If an enemy were here, I might be able to stop them from attacking or casting a spell, but this? This is beyond me. ~Lostbelt No.2 The Eternal Icy Fire Century, Götterdämmerung — Bringing Twilight Here Once Again (Beginning)

I think Fate Manipulation fits better. There are also statements that Surtr was able to defy his destined fate set upon him by the gods.

There is also a weird statement that Surtr is a "Void being":

Scáthach-Skadi No human can summon the King of Giants. A human body is simply not capable of serving as an anchor to keep a Void being tethered to reality. ~Lostbelt No.2 The Eternal Icy Fire Century, Götterdämmerung — Bringing Twilight Here Once Again (End)

---

Also, now I am against Vector Manipulation.

It seems that what is meant is:

• Existence/Reality = Positive Value
• Non-Existence = 0
• Fiction/Void/Anti-reality = Negative Value

Spoiler: Some statements discussing the nature of Imaginary Number Space and Primordial Chaos:

Holmes The world we hope to visit is one that cannot exist without being defined, even as it lies in a domain beyond our reach. In other words, we will be attempting to travel to a world that exists on the negative vector. [...] P.A. System You know how Rayshifting involves breaking a Master down into Spiritrons and outputting them into space-time as numeric values? Well, this way of traveling through space is the exact opposite. We'll be slipping through a crack in this world into a Sea of Time, completely erasing our existence from reality. Prologue/Dec 26th, 2019 — On to an Unprecedented Journey

Holmes For that matter, the Zero Sail was incredibly dangerous in its own right, since it inverted our very existence into the negative zone. Lostbelt No.1 Permafrost Empire, Anastasia — Empire of Beasts

Holmes: Indeed. Under normal circumstances, nothing could possibly exist in Void Space, unless it were itself composed of void. There are exceptions, though... Namely, the All-Terrain Void-Transporter Shadow Border, its crew, and the Paper Moon. [...] Meunière Do you even hear yourself!? This is VOID Space! This whole dimension shouldn't even exist! There's no way there could be anything here besides the Border! ~Lostbelt No.2 The Eternal Icy Fire Century, Götterdämmerung — Assault of the Demonic Sword (Beginning)

Da Vinci I took a look at the data we collected during the attack... ...and it said that the beam that came down from the sky tore the Border to pieces. So even though our Zero Sail came to an end successfully, albeit half-assedly, our existence was still ever so slightly unstable. Holmes Are you familiar with a Rider by the name of Astolfo? Choices Oh yes. Very. Holmes​ Then perhaps you're also familiar with his Noble Phantasm, the Hippogriff?​ Since it is not of this world, and its existence is so ill-defined, the Hippogriff is able to travel freely between truth and fiction.​ This enables it to temporarily evade attacks that are rooted in reality.​ Not really, no... Holmes​ Well, one of the legends he shares with Bradamante involves a Phantasmal Beast called Hippogriff.​ Hippogriff is a mythical creature that can travel freely to the Reverse Side of the World and back thanks to its ill-defined existence.​ Holmes In our case, under most circumstances, our predicament would normally have led to one of two outcomes. Either that light from the heavens would have torn the Nautilus to pieces, or the forced Zero Sail would have resulted in us no longer being able to verify our own existence. However, it is here where Captain's decision truly shines. Sustaining damage in a neither-here-nor-there state served to verify our existence through external means... ...and in turn, the Zero Sail helped keep the light's destruction within manageable levels. ~Lostbelt No.5 Ancient Ocean of the Dreadnought Gods, Atlantis — Impossibly Miraculous

"Imaginary Number space, where "nothingness" existed as an actual thing, was something like a dimensional pocket, a place where objects would be freed from interaction with the flow of space and time. ~Lord El Melloi II Case Files, Volume 5, Chapter 2

No - it wasn't only the earth. The cracks stretched out from the surface to empty air, distorting space and sucking in the atmosphere. The entirety of their surroundings were blown into the end of the void by a surging wind. "T-This is..." It was such a scene that even the King of Conquerors was at a loss for words. The Sword of Rupture commanded by the King of Heroes - what its single strike bore through was not only the earth, but the world itself, stretching to the sky. The attack was not even something to be discussed as a matter of whether it hit, or whether its force was advisable. Soldiers, horses, the dust, the sky - nearly everything that used the cut space as a foundation was swallowed and disappeared into the surging void. Bucephalus planted his hooves firm with all his strength and resisted the atmospheric pressure of the vacuum; even as this happened, the great plain of hot sand woven by Ionian Hetairoi cracked, shattered, and collapsed into the abyss of the void like the ending of an hourglass. Before that one blade was swung, all things were nothing more than chaos which could not form any meaning - After that one blade was swung, a new truth divided and distinguished Heaven, Sea, and Earth. The released tumult of genesis was no longer in the realm of an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm. It was an irregularity that broke down not only that which possessed shape, but all of creation. That was the true form of the anti-world Noble Phantasm that made the King of Heroes transcendent. Heaven fell, Earth broke; within the darkness where everything returned to nothingness, only Archer's Sword of Rupture shone with brilliance. The dazzling light continued to complete the destruction, like a star of creation, the first thing illuminating the new world. ~Fate/Zero - Volume 4 - Act 16

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I believe Arjuna and Aśvatthāman were in Primordial Chaos rather than Imaginary Number Space (though the two are stated to be similar and are stated to be a place where nothingness exists).

They seem to be in a weird time stop where they will be erased within a moment, but that moment requires an infinite amount of time to pass (thus making time meaningless).

well, would that still be a literal "nothingness" and qualify for Void Manipulation?

It is a reliable statement since it comes from Ophelia whose Mystic Eyes allows her to view her target's possibilities and delay events from happening. She is also able to distinguish whether something is impossible/not-possible and something being highly unlikely:

so that would be an additional feat for the Imaginary Number Space right? because Davinci who can interact with Void Space gets probability hax too.

Also, now I am against Vector Manipulation.

It seems that what is meant is:

• Existence/Reality = Positive Value
• Non-Existence = 0
• Fiction/Void/Anti-reality = Negative Value

But still it includes Vector Manipulation because it is blatantly stated vector, as is in the profile of Rider (Leonardo Davinci) she gained the Vector Manipulation through Imaginary Number Space.

it looks like the scan that you send can also implies it is a subjective reality hax because it makes reality not exist.

 

[LehenDuo]

Time Stop: Able to function within a sea of Imaginary Number Space, which lacks a flow of time.

This makes it seems as if INS is a timeless space, where it does have a concept of time, just completely different from our Universe of Observation one, that has a constant flow of aggregation.

And even INS has the ''waves'' that are somehow like a time movement.

And INS, if it isn't already, is definitely a higher-dimension. At least if you consider ''dimensions we can interact directly''. It is imaginary number space as in math imaginary number, not as in imagiary elements, which should maybe be called Fictious.

I believe Arjuna and Aśvatthāman were in Primordial Chaos rather than Imaginary Number Space (though the two are stated to be similar and are stated to be a place where nothingness exists).

Skadi has called INS the primordial chaos, or at least said to think of INS as if it were the Primordial Chaos of mythological stories.

well, would that still be a literal "nothingness" and qualify for Void Manipulation?

That would be an incorrect interpretation of nothingness. It's nothingness not in so far as ''there's nothing there'', because if such were the case, there would be boundaries. It's nothingness as in no-thingness - whatever is the case of the ''existence'', it can't be defined (as it is the sum of oppposites, heaven and earth, warm and cold, etc) and it, therfore, has no boundaries. The opposite of infinite/infinity, as is put in Kara no Kyoukai.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

That would be an incorrect interpretation of nothingness. It's nothingness not in so far as ''there's nothing there'', because if such were the case, there would be boundaries. It's nothingness as in no-thingness - whatever is the case of the ''existence'', it can't be defined (as it is the sum of oppposites, heaven and earth, warm and cold, etc) and it, therfore, has no boundaries. The opposite of infinite/infinity, as is put in Kara no Kyoukai.

Then what will that ability be

 

[LehenDuo]

Then what will that ability be

What feat are you refering to, exactly? At least in the main post it's not linked anything that has them manipulating the INS. I remember in the games there is INS manipulation, but it deals more with reality creation or something of the like than void manipulation.

It seems that what is meant is:

• Existence/Reality = Positive Value
• Non-Existence = 0
• Fiction/Void/Anti-reality = Negative Value

As there is INS, I would argue Fiction is Imaginary with a Real non-zero part more than Negative Value, or something similar (Remembering Imaginary Numbers have been used in real-world Engineering and Physics, and correctly guess the result, therefore, even if Imaginary, they are not fictious, as in they have something in the process or in the substance that it represents.). Fiction/Fantasy and Reality are sometimes even coexisting, such as in Tsukihime worlds, where the worlds made by fairies/etc are actually ''there'' on the surface, not separated. And Marble Phantasm/etc. The idea I'm trying to say is that Fantasy and Reality are existences of different types, but of the same ''Validity'' in Nasuverse.

Magical Circuits and Magical Energy itself is called Fiction, and it still works perfectly fine. The whole concept of Reality Marble is that you impose your Common Sense in the world.

This idea that Fiction is somehow ''less'' than Real is weird when the very place you exists in is called the Conscioussness of Humanity. Fiction has the concept of the real + the idea of not-existing. But that may be me reading too much philosophy.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

What feat are you refering to, exactly? At least in the main post it's not linked anything that has them manipulating the INS. I remember in the games there is INS manipulation, but it deals more with reality creation or something of the like than void manipulation.

As you said, that is the place where the opposites of duality are like light and dark, warm and cold, heaven and earth. so what ability is it?

Probably Void Manipulation isn't quite right, as you described. But there may be other abilities from the feat you sent.

 

[LehenDuo]

BBs feat of creating weird shit (a place in which information can be exchanged or something like that) in Far Side to me seems like Reality Manipulation. It's even said she has the ability to recreate the very rules of existence and etc in her CCC description. What I don't understand is what you are refering to when making said ''Void Manipulation'' a basic power of anyone related to INS.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far.

Also:

@Promestein @Dragonmasterxyz @Iapitus_The_Impaler @Veloxt1r0kore @Solacis @Creaturemaster971 @ShadowWhoWalks @Zencha9 @Strife304 @TheUnshakableOne @Problemexe @Newendigo @Bernkastelll @CrimsonStarFallen @Theglassman12 @DragonGamerZ913

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Ant, why you still contacting @Solacis again?

 

[Antvasima]

Because he is listed in the verse page. I cannot remember who I should and shouldn't contact otherwise.

 

[Zencha9]

he always says that he doesn't want to be pinged for nasu stuff
so i removed him

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

What are the conclusions here so far.

So far only problems with Caliburn and some abilities in the Imaginary Number Space, the rest is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

I skimmed through the first post, and it seems uncontroversial to apply, as long as all the claims are correct.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Thank you for the reply.

I skimmed through the first post, and it seems uncontroversial to apply, as long as all the claims are correct.

i think it's better if you can call CrimsonStarFallen to evaluate this CRT as there are some stuff still debatable.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. @CrimsonStarFallen would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Only Reactive Evolution negation is bad here. Everything else is fine.

That would be an incorrect interpretation of nothingness. It's nothingness not in so far as ''there's nothing there'', because if such were the case, there would be boundaries. It's nothingness as in no-thingness - whatever is the case of the ''existence'', it can't be defined (as it is the sum of oppposites, heaven and earth, warm and cold, etc) and it, therfore, has no boundaries. The opposite of infinite/infinity, as is put in Kara no Kyoukai.

This makes no sense and is directly contradicted by several FGO statements that say entering INS without protection would erase them out of existence. Regardless of its definition, its still a void and would qualify for void manip.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

if so then only Reactive Evolution negation is not accepted.

I don't mind if Void Manipulation is only possibly.