"Skipping isn't Stopping" Hit Time skip revision

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I remember another thread proposing the same thing a long time ago via the "Immeasurable but outlier" reason and then there was another thread to add it back that AKM sama and I agreed. But I forgot where those details were.

 

[Omegabronic]

That analogy made no sense at all, since hit is skipping through time, goku would remain frozen to hit and would be unable to move since hes moving at immeasurable speeds, just via an ability and not speed, but since goku INTERCEPTED hit MID timeskip and counter him, that quite literally means goku was moving at immeasurable speeds to be able to do that, catching somebody lacking while they skip through time is as blatant as it can get.

the time skip doesn't make Goku frozen, we see him moving numerous times while Hit is in the middle of his Time Skip

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Yes, he's surprised Goku was able to counter him by predicting like that. No one's done that before...

We have no evidence of that.

That's also why Goku said it won't work anymore (especially later when he gets his Resistance to Time Stop via SSB Kaioken x10 in the tournament). I'm not fond of this attempt to push it as an Immeasurable speed feat when, in-verse, it so evidently isn't

It’s more like the vice shout where there is a clear threshold of strength you must clearly be at.

 

[Omegabronic]

I remember another thread proposing the same thing a long time ago via the "Immeasurable but outlier" reason and then there was another thread to add it back that AKM sama and I agreed. But I forgot where those details were.

what do you think of the thread's proposals as is?

 

[CloverDragon03]

We have no evidence of that.

The evidence is called episode 38 of Dragon Ball Super...

It’s more like the vice shout where there is a clear threshold of strength you must clearly be at.

Asserting this as true doesn't make it so

 

[ChoursDropoff]

The evidence is called episode 38 of Dragon Ball Super...

Considering Hit never comments on the history of his abilities I would say not.

Asserting this as true doesn't make it so

Precisely

 

[CloverDragon03]

Considering Hit never comments on the history of his abilities I would say not.

Your interpretation is not supported, given that Goku only actually moves within Time-Skip after he goes SSB Kaioken x10 and it's treated as a major feat then. Him doing so in base just makes no sense.

Precisely

Hence, your point falls flat, as I've actually substantiated my point

 

[Kachon123]

Wait Clover, if what Goku was doing was just Analytical Prediction, how was he able to move during the Time-Skip?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Wait Clover, if what Goku was doing was just Analytical Prediction, how was he able to move during the Time-Skip?

He moved beforehand

 

[Kachon123]

He moved beforehand

What about this?

 

[CloverDragon03]

What about this?

SSB Kaioken x10 is a different beast, one that's treated as a Resistance to Time Stop (as he's actively moving within Hit's skipped time rather than just predicting)

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Your interpretation is not supported, given that Goku only actually moves within Time-Skip after he goes SSB Kaioken x10 and it's treated as a major feat then. Him doing so in base just makes no sense.

I never said he can do it in base. And that would support my argument because it is clearly not treated as a mere resistance. But an actual stat level you must be at.

Hence, your point falls flat, as I've actually substantiated my point

No it doesn’t it’s already accepted that everything 4-B character in DB has these abilities it’s not a baseless claim.

I was trying to say you did what you accused me of.

 

[Kachon123]

SSB Kaioken x10 is a different beast, one that's treated as a Resistance to Time Stop (as he's actively moving within Hit's skipped time rather than just predicting)

The OP addressed that Hit isn't stopping time though, so how would that be a resistance to time stop?

 

[TheGreatBanana]

How can it be resistance when the time skipping isn't even used on goku...?

 

[RenderGK]

Act beforehand, it would not make Goku able to intercept a blow in the future if he himself is not in the future.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I never said he can do it in base. And that would support my argument because it is clearly not treated as a mere resistance. But an actual stat level you must be at.

Except what you're saying is pure conjecture without evidence

No it doesn’t it’s already accepted that everything 4-B character in DB has these abilities it’s not a baseless claim.

I know for Vice Shout it is, but this isn't Vice Shout

I was trying to say you did what you accused me of.

I know, and the attempt failed

The OP addressed that Hit isn't stopping time though, so how would that be a resistance to time stop?

I mean at worst just change it to Resistance to Time Manipulation. Either way, it doesn't make sense as a speed feat. Keep in mind that the same Goku was completely affected by Hit's Time-Skip in the very next episode - which wouldn't be the case if this was a matter of speed.

 

[Omegabronic]

SSB Kaioken x10 is a different beast, one that's treated as a Resistance to Time Stop (as he's actively moving within Hit's skipped time rather than just predicting)

that's changing since Time Skip isn't Time Stop at all and Goku shows that he can move mid time skip before, also the resistance is listed for his base form

 

[Kachon123]

I mean at worst just change it to Resistance to Time Manipulation. Either way, it doesn't make sense as a speed feat. Keep in mind that the same Goku was completely affected by Hit's Time-Skip in the very next episode - which wouldn't be the case if this was a matter of speed.

Wouldn't this same issue arise if we gave Goku Resistance to Time Manipulation since he was affected in the following episode?

 

[StekFence]

Why does hit need a technique to time travel while goku just does it. I think it’s immeas as an outlier, but I think the time travel bit is specifically an outlier.

 

[Golden_Void]

Hit's power is based more on ki than it is natural time.

Goku went from needing kaioken to beating Hit inside his time dimension with regular SSB. Jiren was casually beating this dude and escaped his time prison which is literally the sum of time Hit has skipped concentrated on one person. Every God of Destruction and higher would dance on Hit's corpse while he was using time skip.

Because time skip isn't natural time manipulation, it's ki-based time teleportation. I'm pretty sure he says this in the manga too.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Wouldn't this same issue arise if we gave Goku Resistance to Time Manipulation since he was affected in the following episode?

Well no, because it was a result of Hit improving further, which would just mean his Time Manipulation gained a layer

that's changing since Time Skip isn't Time Stop at all and Goku shows that he can move mid time skip before, also the resistance is listed for his base form

Hence why I suggested the change to Time Manipulation, since it isn't actually Time Stop

 

[Aernasilver]

Act beforehand, it would not make Goku able to intercept a blow in the future if he himself is not in the future.

What. Literally what most character with precognition do. Use the knowledge of the future to intercept the blow.

But I’m this case goku is predicting the future.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Hit's power is based more on ki than it is natural time.

Goku went from needing kaioken to beating Hit inside his time dimension with regular SSB. Jiren was casually beating this dude and escaped his time prison which is literally the sum of time Hit has skipped concentrated on one person. Every God of Destruction and higher would dance on Hit's corpse while he was using time skip.

Because time skip isn't natural time manipulation, it's ki-based time teleportation. I'm pretty sure he says this in the manga too.

In general, I feel that Hit's Time-Skip is a bit of a weird ability to index. He's basically... skipping ahead in time, so you can actually move in that time, but then later (like in DBS Episode 40 when Goku appears outright frozen) it becomes treated like a sort of Time Stop - unless that's considered a separate thing

 

[Omegabronic]

Hence why I suggested the change to Time Manipulation, since it isn't actually Time Stop

but like..........which facet of Time Manipulation? he can resist Hit......traveling to the future? how would that even work?

In general, I feel that Hit's Time-Skip is a bit of a weird ability to index. He's basically... skipping ahead in time, so you can actually move in that time, but then later (like in DBS Episode 40 when Goku appears outright frozen) it becomes treated like a sort of Time Stop - unless that's considered a separate thing

and then there is like........the majority of the scenes where Goku straight up moves Mid Time Skip before the Kaioken......it is weird, but Time Travel seems to be what it is intended to be, so

 

[CloverDragon03]

I wouldn't mind making it, like... the world's most limited form of Time Travel, if King Kai was saying that Goku was actually forcing himself into the future. I say "the world's most limited" because only being able to jump ahead by a second or less is awful Time Travel lmao

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Idk if this helps, but we actually index this feat that way:

• Greater Analytical Prediction (During his fight against Hit, he managed to predict his movements after he skipped time by 0.1 seconds, allowing Goku to counter Hit's Time-Skip ability[38])
• Reactive Evolution (When fighting Hit, Goku lacked a resistance to Time-Skip ability and required analytical prediction to contend against Hit’s abilities. Eventually, Hit improved his Time-Skip and Goku's analytical prediction didn’t work. In the middle of the fight, Goku gained resistance by intercepting Hit's Time-Skip. However, Hit improved his time based technique to bypass Goku's resistance. In their second fight, Goku tells Hit that his Time-Skip will no longer work on him, despite the fact that he knows that Hit can improve his Time-Skip)

• Time Stop (During his fight against Hit, Goku stated that he was now at a level beyond Hit's Time-Skip, as he intercepted Hit in the middle of his Time-Skip. However, Hit improved his time based technique to bypass Goku's resistance. Then, Goku during his second fight with Hit stated that Hit's Time-Skip wouldn't work on him anymore)

 

[RenderGK]

Hit's power is based more on ki than it is natural time.

Goku went from needing kaioken to beating Hit inside his time dimension with regular SSB. Jiren was casually beating this dude and escaped his time prison which is literally the sum of time Hit has skipped concentrated on one person. Every God of Destruction and higher would dance on Hit's corpse while he was using time skip.

Because time skip isn't natural time manipulation, it's ki-based time teleportation. I'm pretty sure he says this in the manga too.

It is never said that hit teleports in time and is based on ki, also manga ≠ anime.

 

[Golden_Void]

In general, I feel that Hit's Time-Skip is a bit of a weird ability to index. He's basically... skipping ahead in time, so you can actually move in that time, but then later (like in DBS Episode 40 when Goku appears outright frozen) it becomes treated like a sort of Time Stop - unless that's considered a separate thing

He was improving in the tournament, constantly raising the limit of how long he could skip time for. I'm pretty sure even one full second is very significant, considering it was originally like a tenth of a second or something.

It is never said that hit teleports in time and is based on ki, also manga ≠ anime.

Not everything has to be spoon-fed to you. It's explicitly stated in the manga, but explicitly shown in the anime. "Time teleportation" is a reference to an outsider's perspective nobody sees him moving during the skip.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Not everything has to be spoon-fed to you. It's explicitly stated in the manga, but explicitly shown in the anime. "Time teleportation" is a reference to an outsider's perspective nobody sees him moving during the skip.

Yeah no things played out completely different in manga and in anime,in manga ssj blue was enough to defeat hit because of that logic while in anime hit was still able to affect goku with his time skip even in ssj blue kk×10

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Wouldn't this same issue arise if we gave Goku Resistance to Time Manipulation since he was affected in the following episode?

Not at all. There are levels to resistance but the same can't be said for immeasurable speed and its relationship with time.
If your speed is enough to surpass time itself, time skip doesn't work regardless of how much you skip. If you resist to a bit of time manipulation, a stronger version might be enough to bypass it.

These are very different scenarios and it works best as a resistance.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

He was improving in the tournament, constantly raising the limit of how long he could skip time for. I'm pretty sure even one full second is very significant, considering it was originally like a tenth of a second or something.


Not everything has to be spoon-fed to you. It's explicitly stated in the manga, but explicitly shown in the anime. "Time teleportation" is a reference to an outsider's perspective nobody sees him moving during the skip.

You can't and should refrain from using the manga which is different in several things including abilities as example for the anime. They are different continuities with different creative decisions. Period.

I don't even disagree, just avoid using the manga.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Can't we just give Goku time travel negation?

 

[Golden_Void]

Yeah no things played out completely different in manga and in anime,in manga ssj blue was enough to defeat hit because of that logic while in anime hit was still able to affect goku with his time skip even in ssj blue kk×10

I said his time ability is ki-based, not based on natural time. The differences in application don't change that. His ability only works on himself unless he's using the pocket dimension variation. It isn't stated to be someone like Whis, who stated he manipulates the temporal dimension itself.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I said his time ability is ki-based, not based on natural time. The differences in application don't change that. His ability only works on himself unless he's using the pocket dimension variation. It isn't stated to be someone like Whis, who stated he manipulates the temporal dimension itself.

Yeah I am just saying that goku didn't overpower the ability he intercepted hit mid time skip

 

[Therefir]

I thought we just treated it as Goku gaining resistance to Hit's Time Skip? Him becoming Immeasurable in speed wouldn't really make sense considering that later Hit's improved Time Skip did worked against the same Goku.

This ability shouldn't work at all against Immeasurable characters, and it shows that Goku doesn't need that kind of speed to overcome it.

Goku's resistance to Time Stop should probably just be changed to Resistance to Time Manipulation.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I thought we just treated it as Goku gaining resistance to Hit's Time Skip? Him becoming Immeasurable in speed wouldn't really make sense considering that later Hit's improved Time Skip did worked against Goku the same Goku.

This ability shouldn't work at all against Immeasurable characters, and it shows that Goku doesn't need that kind of speed to overcome it.

Goku's resistance to Time Stop should probably just be changed to Resistance to Time Manipulation.

In the rematch of goku vs hit goku confirmed that hits time skip won't work on him that's why hit resorted to a new technique he increased the potency of his attack during his fight with goku in kk×10

 

[Robo432343]

We get a much clearer answer during the Goku assassination arc, in which Vados explains that whenever Hit is using his, "time related abilities", he is in actuality going into his own separate dimension and hopping back out again. We even see this in action when Hit brings in someone that he was going to assassinate into this dimension, where he elaborates that in comparison to the rest of the world, time doesn't move, though after he kills him, it would look like to his subordinates that he died within an instant because they were not pulled into the same dimension as Hit was. So whenever Hit uses his time skip, it would literally look like he teleported, as when Goku and gang were first reacting to his fight with Vegeta, it was not until the galactic king was able to decipher that Hit was using this ability, did Goku then understand what was even happening, even implying if he were to fight in Vegeta's place, he would have gotten beaten down just as badly. So Hit isn't actually literally stopping time and moving like he's DIO from Jojo's, he's just going into his dimension and travelling to another position in space within his dimension and going back out. Hence why when Goku figured that he would only be in said dimension for x amount of time, he would then just have to predict where Hit would try to attack him in said specified amount of time. It was fairly easy for Goku because Hit is predictable. Its even specified when Hit was fighting Dyspo, that Dyspo is that much faster than Hit, he was able to speed blitz him as he was able to enter Hits dimension. It states he was able to tell Hit was about to do this due to him vibrating his body at a different frequency. This is even shown to be how it worked in the manga's interpretation of Hit's time skip as it was pointed out by Goku the reason Hit hides his hands in his pockets, is because it would give away whenever Hit was going to activate his timeskip, which better helped Goku react to whenever Hit decided to use it against him. So Hit is not actually stopping time, he's entering a dimension where in comparison to the mortal world, time isn't moving. It's similar to how with the room of spirit and time, a year passes in there while outside, only a day has passed so even when Goku breaks into it, it has nothing to do with speed. Heck, we literally see him destroy it with a kamehameha in the assassination arc. All Goku says in the anime is that because of the level he's at now, it doesn't matter how far Hit pushed his timeskip. And with the manga, its stated that simply being stronger than Hit would cause you to not be affected by his "time abilities". So its consistent within both continuities that Hit's time skip works this way. Its not time stop, its simply dimension hopping.

Disagree

 

[Killerdrone123]

We get a much clearer answer during the Goku assassination arc, in which Vados explains that whenever Hit is using his, "time related abilities", he is in actuality going into his own separate dimension and hopping back out again. We even see this in action when Hit brings in someone that he was going to assassinate into this dimension, where he elaborates that in comparison to the rest of the world, time doesn't move, though after he kills him, it would look like to his subordinates that he died within an instant because they were not pulled into the same dimension as Hit was. So whenever Hit uses his time skip, it would literally look like he teleported, as when Goku and gang were first reacting to his fight with Vegeta, it was not until the galactic king was able to decipher that Hit was using this ability, did Goku then understand what was even happening, even implying if he were to fight in Vegeta's place, he would have gotten beaten down just as badly. So Hit isn't actually literally stopping time and moving like he's DIO from Jojo's, he's just going into his dimension and travelling to another position in space within his dimension and going back out. Hence why when Goku figured that he would only be in said dimension for x amount of time, he would then just have to predict where Hit would try to attack him in said specified amount of time. It was fairly easy for Goku because Hit is predictable. Its even specified when Hit was fighting Dyspo, that Dyspo is that much faster than Hit, he was able to speed blitz him as he was able to enter Hits dimension. It states he was able to tell Hit was about to do this due to him vibrating his body at a different frequency. This is even shown to be how it worked in the manga's interpretation of Hit's time skip as it was pointed out by Goku the reason Hit hides his hands in his pockets, is because it would give away whenever Hit was going to activate his timeskip, which better helped Goku react to whenever Hit decided to use it against him. So Hit is not actually stopping time, he's entering a dimension where in comparison to the mortal world, time isn't moving. It's similar to how with the room of spirit and time, a year passes in there while outside, only a day has passed so even when Goku breaks into it, it has nothing to do with speed. Heck, we literally see him destroy it with a kamehameha in the assassination arc. All Goku says in the anime is that because of the level he's at now, it doesn't matter how far Hit pushed his timeskip. And with the manga, its stated that simply being stronger than Hit would cause you to not be affected by his "time abilities". So its consistent within both continuities that Hit's time skip works this way. Its not time stop, its simply dimension hopping.

Disagree

That is hits different ability which he used against goku in the rematch he literally stored the time that he skips to make that dimension he goes into

 

[Ednaxel2]

I'm a bit late into the thread, but isn't Hit's timeskip a sort of dimension hopping kinda thing?

 

[Robo432343]

Yes bro it’s simply dimension hopping