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How do you know they didn't?
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"Skipping isn't Stopping" Hit Time skip revision
- Thread starter Omegabronic
- Start date
- Status
- 3,505
- 1,370
You forgot option four: time manipulation, specifically goku moved at a faster rate of time.
- 12,451
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- Thread starter
- #83
....? I am confused at what you said
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If everyone has a normal rate of time, goku moved at a faster rate of time.
For example, verses where there are dimensions where time moves slower or faster than other dimensions. Think of it like that, but for goku’s personal time flow.
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- Thread starter
- #85
WHat do you think of the proposal?
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this is the safest option for now, if there is a situation that supports this in the future, then this issue can be discussed again.
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I mean they clearly wouldn’t be moving at their top speed 24/7. And since they’d be fighting people relative to them in speed from their perspective time would pass. This same line of logic tracks with MFTL+ speed as well.
Plus off the examples the OP posted this wound be immeasurable combat/reaction speed at best realistically considering it’s obviously not correlating to their travel speed.
Fallen_Angelicx
He/Him- 3,083
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Goku and the rest of the verse would still end up being immeasurable in all speed categories as blitzes exist.
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That doesn’t make sense to me. They’re not traveling through time.
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- Thread starter
- #90
The feat in this case is nothing but Goku doing just that
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How do you know that they did?
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I never claimed that they did.
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Idk if this is taken seriously but a second later it’s stated he had power to transcend time.
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It's in the context of Hit's abilities. He doesn't possess some qualitative superiority to Time in general (which such a statement wouldn't be enough for anyway!)
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outlier, hyperbole, flowery language, figurative language, non literal, double it give it to the next person
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Doesn’t Jiren out scale Zamasu who has timeline level range?
- 12,451
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- Thread starter
- #98
In power, not range
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I..What? My point was that using ToP clockwork as an antifeat, is stupid, because it is inconsistent even with the stats the wiki accepts
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- Thread starter
- #101
The thread had that option from the begining, now if it is an outlier was included later
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100% agree.
DMC got immeasurable speed through translated guidebook statements for Argosax and if using the same logic that would be considered an outlier too because obviously linear time is still a thing everyone in the plot has to adhere to in all the games.
DBS has more explicit evidence for it and multiple future interactions with Hit where it is stated to be something Goku now scales well beyond.
I don't think overall time progression in plots is something that should negate immeasurable ratings by itself. Afterall it's tough to write narratives otherwise as mere humans lol.
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What simple doesn´t matter for the main purpose of the argument, lol
Why they couldn´t have delivered septillions of punches in each fight? What could stop them to doing so?
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I mean, Hit literally does this in the fight, to KKx10 Goku.
Also, (to others), talking isn’t evidence of any timeframe, because Talking is a Free Action. Regardless of speed—Supersonic, MFTL+, immeasurable—Talking, their pauses, etc.
What actually matters is the narration at the end, as in the omniscient viewpoint of the story, time objectively passes. It’s not debatable.
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What about the fact that, if I recall, Universe crossing for Angels (who are far beyond Goku) taking time has been used in several instances as a plot point, both directly and indirectly?
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You mean that one statement from Whis that is contradicted by the fact he later later has better on screen feats? And even characters who scale under him as well including Beerus in that very same arc.
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Option 1 is not getting accepted, so this is a non-starter anyways but I will clarify my opinion and why I am against it.
You can't get away from the fact that Whis very clearly cannot and has never demonstrated or been portrayed to be able to fly from Beerus' planet to Earth in 0 time (which itself would only be infinite!). I dont think you quite understand the depth of what an Immeasurable Speed character entails, and how much it would break DBS. Thankfully we can use a character in Whis that is so far beyond Goku as a barometer for why Immeasurable would be odd for the latter, and why this feat should be an outlier. Since combat speed/flight speed is not differentiated like on the DBZ profiles, this is very much fair game. As per the page, an Immeasurable Speed character can...
"...travel forward and backward in time at will. They have the speed necessary to hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time, and anywhere in between as casually as a human being can roll their eyes left or right." Whis can canonically only rewind time for 3 minutes, and not even through speed.
Taking time to fly these finite distances is also very much a thing consistently established for him. For example, in DBS BoG this time was utilized as a means for Vegeta to warn people about the oncoming threat of Beerus. In DBS RoF they were slower getting to Earth by far than Goku's IT. Even for Whis' fastest feat in the Arale episode, he still took time which was used as a way to stop Goku vs Arale, but allow for a buildup in tension by having them charge up their attack, etc. You can cling to narrative progression all you want to justify the Tournament of Power; maybe you are right. But on the contrary, there has never been a single narrarive point that would favour or suggest this level of speed.
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Goku was countering Hit by predicting what he'd do in the skipped time, so does this really need to be any of these things? Wouldn't it just be some kind of Analytical Prediction?
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Goku was predicting yes, but we literally see him moving with hit while hit is skipping through time, thats literally immeasurable. But its argued to be outlier.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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It's not even immeasurable and we shouldn't even acknowledge as such even in the context of it being outlier. The time skip makes hit travel 0.1 seconds into the future and do whatever he wants in between these movements undetected. Goku moved to a predicted position in 0.1 seconds to block an attack, it's not immeasurable.
Allowing this to be accepted as immeasurable will open the floodgates for more people to claim consistency with other feats or arguments out of context.
Allowing this to be accepted as immeasurable will open the floodgates for more people to claim consistency with other feats or arguments out of context.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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Because Hit is going to the future, and obviously you are going to make movements in that timeframe.
If I was walking down the street 10 meters away from the next curb, and you skipped through time for 5 seconds, you'd witness me walking these 10 meters normally. The difference is that Hit does that so fast that Goku is the only one who can do any detectable movement.
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That's just a visual thing for clarity, because Hit's Time-Skip would make that not the case. And if Goku could move in Time-Skip to begin with, that'd make the ability completely pointless. It's just Analytical Prediction
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That analogy made no sense at all, since hit is skipping through time, goku would remain frozen to hit and would be unable to move since hes moving at immeasurable speeds, just via an ability and not speed, but since goku INTERCEPTED hit MID timeskip and counter him, that quite literally means goku was moving at immeasurable speeds to be able to do that, catching somebody lacking while they skip through time is as blatant as it can get.
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How is it just a visual thing, hit was clearly surprised that goku was even able to do something like that, when he previously couldn't before, and then when they fight again, goku literally says time skip just wont work anymore, no matter how much hit improved it, which adds consistency with what he did before.
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Yes, he's surprised Goku was able to counter him by predicting like that. No one's done that before...
That's also why Goku said it won't work anymore (especially later when he gets his Resistance to Time Stop via SSB Kaioken x10 in the tournament). I'm not fond of this attempt to push it as an Immeasurable speed feat when, in-verse, it so evidently isn't
Skill issue.
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- Thread starter
- #118
he later on upgraded his skip to be longer, when Goku used the Kaioken 10x he was able to intercept Hit Mid Skip, so, yes for the initial parts, but the kaioken parts kind of shows him going alongside Hit and his skip
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There’s a difference between knowing an attack is coming. And actually being able to do something about it, Goku’s reaction speed would still need to scale.
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It doesn't "need" to do anything. We see how this is done in practice, via Goku making his movement before the Time-Skip happens. No need for any speed buffs
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