Skill Guy vs Guts Man (not the Megaman one)

[XDragnoir]

Inside damage has already showed to be inefecctive against Gunha because of his regen, so cutting his stomach and spine will not be a problem.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Oh you missed the point, it's not a graze to the spine or the stomach. It's literally cutting her in half.

 

[XDragnoir]

Yeah, my bad, cutting and stabbing don't have the smae meaning in english.

 

[Malox1696]

i mean area damage in general is difficult to dodge at equal speed, + ranged attacks (memeber this is equal speed so ranged attacks are always a big advantage )

and both don't have previous knowledge so the fight should start as normal considering u said urself that trackless step is used 3 time i don00t think he will start with it, and even then there is a chance he hit's the force field if he can't see it with TS

considering gunha strategy is spamming attack crash unless he manges to dodge everything (but in that case the fight is moth as 1 character can't hit the other) i don't see how he is getting constantly near him, he has the advantage of 3d space instead of 2d and most of his attacks are ranged with AOE

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Even in speed equal Ikki can blitz actually, but i'll make that CRT when i have the time. As for AoE, ikki has dealt with Stella's Bahamut Howl, and speed is usually not a big factor when you're ikki.

Ikki uses it when he feels like he needs it and with Ikki's level of analytical prediction and info analysis he will most often than not open with what he needs to open with. Like how he opened up with Ittou Rasetsu against Byakuya Jougasaki.

 

[Malox1696]

Even in speed equal Ikki can blitz actually, but i'll make that CRT when i have the time. As for AoE, ikki has dealt with Stella's Bahamut Howl, and speed is usually not a big factor when you're ikki.

..............

..............

???????

 

[XDragnoir]

Info analysis don't work on Gunha, because no one knows what or how he does his things.

And how exactly do you blitz in speed equal? I restricted all amps.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

About the "blitz" in speed equal, it's not cus of speed, it's cus of acceleration. Twing Wings Sword Style makes ikki lack the need to accelerate, this got him from equal or inferior to Moroboshi to blitzing him to where Moroboshi couldn't even follow him with his eyes. As he states "he could hear the steps, but he could not see the opponent".

Info analysis on the level shown doesn't work on him. Let's see the info analysis' best feat and compare it to ikki.

 

[Malox1696]

still makes no sense speed is acceleration too, if he can still blitz then what's the ******* point of speed equal ?

and again why speed would speed not be a big factor ? is he beyond time and space ? can he teleport ?


ikki base vs the flash when ?


for info analysis it's on the feat page again, AC can't understand it, for all the esper in the city he is the only one they can detect he has power but don't understand and there is a lot of bullshit esper powers (example: dark matter let's u create new matter on the fly with whatever property u want, that is understood and used by AC but gunha is truly a black box, all his power make no sense, they just happens as his delusion wants and don't follow the rules)

but hey if ikki can understand it can u ask him what it is, so we can add it to the page ?

 

[00potato]

Lacking Acceleration would not make you blitz someone though? You may catch someone off guard but you are still as fast as you would be when running, just without wind-up. Since speed is equal, he can still get reacted to, it just isn't as likely (not by a massive margin though.)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Malox

Speed is not acceleration. Calling speed acceleration is like calling distance speed. It is not a true blitz, but it is a blitz-like effect none the less.

He remembered. No human eye could perceive her overwhelming speed—and the secret to that was that she did not accelerate. Usually, when a blade was swung, it would start out slow. One needed to accelerate the movement in order for it to reach maximum speed. But there was no such thing in any of Edelweiss's movements. The moment she made to step forward, she was already at top speed. As she began to slash, she was already at her maximum. An extreme stop-and-go, racing from zero to a hundred in a flash. But this technique was extremely strong. The extremities of its swiftness and slowness made the blade strokes seem many times faster than they were. It was also incredibly hard to keep an eye on the blade itself, since it had no slow initial speed.

The world's strongest swordsmanship. It was done like—

"This."

In that instant, his body became light as a feather. Like a rushing wind he weaved through the gaps between Sanrensei's spear strokes—and as he passed he cleaved deeply into Moroboshi's abdomen.

That crossing of swords happened in an instant, a flash. Without even being able to raise so much as a cry of pain, Moroboshi sank to the floor amid a mist of crimson blood.

"Eh…."

It took not a few moments for Ikki to realize that this had all been done by his hand, even as cries filled the stadium at this sudden reversal.

ÒÇîJust as we thought that this was the moment when Moroboshi would end this match, he was the one to fall insteaddd! I reckon he got hit in that exchange with Kurogane… b…but, I'm ashamed to say this, but it was just too fast—I couldn't see what happened at all!!ÒÇì

Indeed, Ikki movements could not be seen, even by the people in the commentator's booth watching the match from afar. He had simply disappeared all of a sudden, and before anyone realized it, had passed Moroboshi by and cut him down.

Iida's eyes bugged wide in disbelief.

ÒÇîWhat is happening? Kurogane's movements are clearly different from what he's shown up till now!ÒÇì

But Muroto's surprise surpassed his.

ÒÇîImpossible! That couldn't be… no, but… it could only be….ÒÇì

He knew. He knew who the footwork and swordplay that Ikki had used really belonged to. Sensing his confusion, Iida pressed him.

ÒÇîMuroto-pro. Do you know something about this? Is this, in fact, the Worst One's rumored Ittou Shura?ÒÇì

ÒÇîN-No, this isn't Ittou Shura. There was no change in the amount of magic power Kurogane was using. That… was pure swordplay! And while there are differences between two-sword and one-sword styles, I have seen that sort of untrackable instant acceleration of body and blade once before….ÒÇì

"So as we agreed, I'll show it to you—Ikki Kurogane at his full strength!"

Having said this, he vanished from Moroboshi's sight.

He disappeared…!

He did not in fact disappear, of course, but having skipped the acceleration process and achieved maximum output upon stepping forward Ikki got off to a rocketing start that Moroboshi's motion perception simply couldn't follow.

Drawing a curved arc with his sprinting, Ikki went around to Moroboshi's left. Three times Ikki had been repelled by his spear, but now he bypassed its range with ease while stepping into the range of his own blade—

"Guaaaah!"

—and cut Moroboshi's right arm as he blasted by like a black gale.

"You lil' shit—!"

Whirling around, Moroboshi lashed out with Sanrensei, using the burning pain to read Ikki's location. But he could only cut thin air. Ikki was no longer there by the time he turned.

He's already gone…!

Moroboshi was momentarily rendered speechless by the speed. But he had no time to be surprised as another blow struck him, slicing into his back.

"Gaaaaah—!"

ÒÇîAah! He's been hit again! Moroboshi is letting Kurogane get into range too easily! He's completely unable to follow his movements! Once again, Sanrensei has struck the empty air!ÒÇì

ÒÇîIt can't be helped…! Kurogane's extreme highs and lows in acceleration and overwhelming speed is something that even we cannot catch from long range, what more when it happens in front of one's eyes! It's more than likely that the Seven Stars Sword King can no longer see the form of the Worst One!ÒÇì

He had hit the nail on the head.

Sh…Shit!

Something impossible was happening before Moroboshi's eyes.

He could hear them. The sounds of any number of slashes, and of footsteps moving at a dreadful pace. His opponent was unmistakably close to him, and yet—

What is this, what is going on!?

—no matter where he turned to look, there was no one there.

It was as if he were the only man in the ring.

Was such a thing even possible? Could it even happen in real life? The ring was a round platform a hundred meters across in diameter, and there was no shade or cover in that small space. Yet though his opponent was so close he could hear his breathing, Moroboshi could not see him at all.

This… this is bad!

This is why he pseudo-blitzes. But i'll have to make the CRT first, this was only as a headsup. As for Ikki vs Flash, Malox, boyo stop taking my words out of context. "Speed is not usually a big factor", doesn't mean it's not a factor, i just mean ikki can fight people significantly faster and significantly stronger, it's nothing new to him. Doesn't mean you should yeet MFTL+ ppl at him.

As for info analysis, that seems very specific. Hax info analysis (which is not the same as Ikki's but as Ikki uses skill for info analysis) that cannot understand how his powers work. Doesn't mean Ikki can't info analyze his attack patterns, fighting style and predict the rest of the match.

 

[XDragnoir]

He can't, this isn't the same as seeing how i hold a sword and understanding everything behind it, or predicting my words based in personality, this is literally Gunha being someone with a power that doesn't make sense, and thus, without actually seeing the future, you can't predict what he will do, because to know what one will do, you need to understand what one can do.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He's using a power that doesn't make sense. Oh like all magic in rakudai which are constantly called "the power to defy logic". His power not making sense doesn't make him unreadable. It's like saying "you can't predict where he'll go cus you can't make out what color his shoes are", completely unrelated to one another.

 

[XDragnoir]

"Magic defy logic" and "Gunha has a power that AC can't understand" aren't the same thing, magic defy logic because as seen in a previous quote, it allows on to do what is technically possible, but logically impossible (completely pure water) while toaru espers, and especially Gemstones, which Gunha is the strongest, are reality warpers and probability manipulators, who can move in the 11th dimension, create a new type of matter that didn't exist anywhere and defies physics and AC can understand all of that, but Gunha is just... impossible for them to understand, and constantly does things that not even him understands

 

[Malox1696]

nono he is somewhat readable , but he will not understand what is the power , especially cause he like to do the superhero style moves and always shoots his moves (like a dumb ass), tho being a dumb ass might help not being predictable has he attack at random, but still u can tell when he is gonna attack

but instant acceleration is nothing, gunha can do the same by just kicking the ground with enough strength, it's just a burst of speed

btw can i please have an argument on how he is gonna win ?

 

[XDragnoir]

I think the argument is that Ikki will TS at start and slice Gunha in half, which is his only way of winning, but TS doesn't stop red alerts right? Gunha should have enough time to activate aurora guard then.

And yeah, he can predict Gunha, but not his powers.

 

[Malox1696]

but does he always start with TS ? this is standrad so we assume they go with what they usually do

 

[XDragnoir]

Ikki used TS 3 times, 2 of them being fights, maybe he starts with something else against oppinents that doesn't seem to be a problem?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

His magic being impossible to understand "how" it works doesn't mean it is impossible for Ikki to relize when he'll use his magic, how, what move etc etc.

As for Trackless Step, prediction and info analysis will tell ikki when to use it. On top of abilities like Afterimages. Ikki doesn't have any move he avoids doing, all of them are in character, he just chooses which to use depending on the situation.

 

[XDragnoir]

He can predict the punch, not what the punch can do, basically.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He can predict the punch, not what the punch can do, basically.

He sure as hell can. If he sees that his magic uses blasts of air or whatever it does, he won't understand why it produces it but he'll know it'll produce it.

 

[Malox1696]

His magic being impossible to understand "how" it works doesn't mean it is impossible for Ikki to relize when he'll use his magic, how, what move etc etc.
As for Trackless Step, prediction and info analysis will tell ikki when to use it. On top of abilities like Afterimages. Ikki doesn't have any move he avoids doing, all of them are in character, he just chooses which to use depending on the situation.

yes but usually what does he start ? he doesn't have previous info here , and does not know what sogita can do

 

[XDragnoir]

He sure as hell can. If he sees that his magic uses blasts of air or whatever it does, he won't understand why it produces it but he'll know it'll produce it.

Not magic though, reality warp and probability hax, also, the attack isn't wind, is a TK punch.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Reality Warp and Prob hax are still magic by both verse's standards as far as im aware, so whatever. A TK punch sure, he won't understand why it works, what's the explanation behind it, but he'll understand when he'll use it, what he'll do etc.

@Malox

Depends really, usually by simply running up to him and slash with senses keeping him out of any possible danger.

 

[XDragnoir]

Magic and Espers aren't the same thing in toaru. He can't understand how Gunha do it, then he can't understand when it is a normal punch or a TK punch.

 

[Malox1696]

it's not a tk punch anyway

 

[XDragnoir]

A "mysterious force" seems TK to me.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not understanding how the TK works doesn't mean you can't predict when it will come. I don't know how a bomb is made, doesn't mean i can't predict when someone will throw a nuke at me.

 

[XDragnoir]

He can't see the difference of a normal punch and one with TK, since he can't understand how Gunha does the TK punch, he doesn't need to know how he does it, he needs to know when it is a nuke or a normal attack, and he can't since he doesn't understand the attack and how it is used.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki literally predicts by doing an on crack version of "if i were in his shoes i would do this move". He doesn't care about how it's done. He just notices that Gunha likes to do a TK punch in certain conditions, so he'll understand how Gunha as a person thinks and therefore when he'll use a TK punch.

Predicting via understanding your opponent's identity is scary.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Reality warp & prob hax in to aru is different with magic in most anime/manga. They literally alter something to become something else via AIM (for esper) or mana (for magician), not just simple energy alteration like (lets says) fairy tale or naruto verse.

Gunha case is bit more special. His reality warp product cant be described. Also, I wonder, can Ikki analyze a substance or particle that not from his universe? AIM detection is main key for him to able analyze Gunha attack.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki doesn't analyze any substance or particle from his own universe let alone another's. There are different types of info analysis and predictions.

 

[Malox1696]

well gunha does things a bit at random, but he should be able to tell when he is gonna attack

the fact is he is not gonna predict exactly what is gonna come

 

[XDragnoir]

So... what is the conclusion, can Gunha even win? I think i will do a match with Mikoto, she is much more versatil than Gunha.

 

[Malox1696]

gunha can win and actually has the edge as along as ikki does not start with LS , ranged attack + aoe+ regen + flight should allow him to space out, tank non lethal injuries and continuing spamming attack crash ,pressure waves etc

ikki instead would need to commit and try to go melee if he wants the advantage which will be even more difficult as he can't fly , but it will be quite difficult to land a lethal blow not knowing gunha regen and his ability to survive and keep fighting even when he loses vital organs

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Well, Ikki dont need fully analyze Gunha attack as long he can evade before gunha launch attack? Its fair, since gunha mostly need gesture to launch attack. However, how about Gunha AoE? It will be hard for Ikki if gunha spams his aoe.

 

[XDragnoir]

Yeah, it seems Ikki needs to start with TS if he wants to win, which he does less time than Gunha starts with his wincons.

 

[Malox1696]

well he can use it later too but it would not be as effective , and why are we assuming that just using LS would lead to a win ? i mean he need to actually deal some serious damage LS is only for concealment, if he uses an aoe attack around him it would be even useless

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki does not start with TS, but he will use it if he deems it necessary by analyzing the situation.

Ranged Attack + AoE - Not gonna be landing hits on someone like ikki.

Regen - Literally useless. Any attack from ikki will bypass it.

Flight - Somewhat useless even if very in character. Ikki can just use buildings or just throw swords at him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Oh and btw it would take ikki like....buncha seconds to use Perfect Vision (completely predict every move Gunha can make).