Shouldn't Chara and Genocide Frisk be a separate thing?

[Magi_Hussie]

From what I know about Undertale, Chara was only awaken by the Player when reaching at least LV 20 from the Player's influence. During the Genocide route, its just a random Frisk turning slowly sinful by killing monsters and eventually becoming Chara at the end of the genocide route. Genocide Frisk had the same appearance as Pacifist Frisk, so we can't assume Chara = Genocide Frisk.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Chara is present throughout the genocide run from almost the start, and was always "awake" as Chara seems to actually be the game's narrator in many cases.

"it's me. Chara" when you look in the mirror at Toriel's house, rather than "it's you!"

We accept that the Player makes Frisk kill everyone in the Ruins, which awakens Chara, and s/he is there for the rest of the game, as s/he controls many of your actions throughout the game, like making you advance on Papyrus, Monster Kid, Mettaton, and making you attack Asgore and Flowey at the end.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Chara is present throughout the genocide run from almost the start, and was always "awake" as Chara seems to actually be the game's narrator in many cases.
"it's me. Chara" when you look in the mirror at Toriel's house, rather than "it's you!"

We accept that the Player makes Frisk kill everyone in the Ruins, which awakens Chara, and s/he is there for the rest of the game, as s/he controls many of your actions throughout the game, like making you advance on Papyrus, Monster Kid, Mettaton, and making you attack Asgore and Flowey at the end.

Chara didn't have enough power to fully possess Frisk until the end of the Genocide route, so that was Genocide Frisk during that time

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Chara cannot possess Frisk fully at any point in the entire game until after the genocide run and Frisk has given Chara their SOUL. Before that point, Frisk can only be briefly controlled at certain points in the game, like when she steps forward to intimidate Papyrus and the Monster Kid.

True Frisk is pacificist frisk. Any change from the pacifist run is done by either the Player's influence, or Chara's. Genocide Frisk is not a thing because Genocide Frisk is mind-controlled Frisk being pushed into something they don't want to do.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Chara cannot possess Frisk fully at any point in the entire game until after the genocide run and Frisk has given Chara their SOUL. Before that point, Frisk can only be briefly controlled at certain points in the game, like when she steps forward to intimidate Papyrus and the Monster Kid.
True Frisk is pacificist frisk. Any change from the pacifist run is done by either the Player's influence, or Chara's. Genocide Frisk is not a thing because Genocide Frisk is mind-controlled Frisk being pushed into something they don't want to do.

The first sentence basically describes who Genocide Frisk is. The Player is the one who is mind controlling Genocide Frisk for his/her evil intentions.

Its still Frisk during the whole time in the 3 different routes until the end of it (the genocide route) and its mainly the Player influence of why Genocide Frisk is suddenly killing the monsters, not Chara. Genocide Frisk was mind-controlled by the Player to kill every existing monster in the Underground, then at the end of the genocide route is when Chara becomes awaken w/ enough love and so on.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

There is no point to separating the two though. LVL 20 Genocide Frisk would have comparable power to Max DT Frisk, and the same abilities, so what is the point in creating a separate tier

 

[Magi_Hussie]

There is no point to separating the two though. LVL 20 Genocide Frisk would have comparable power to Max DT Frisk, and the same abilities, so what is the point in creating a separate tier

At least LV 20 and higher in Undertale = Chara

Up to LV 19 and lower in Undertale = Genocide Frisk

LV 1 only = Pacifist Frisk

Its simple.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

And how would you scale Genocide Frisk's power at each of his 18 levels?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

And how would you scale Genocide Frisk's power at each of his 18 levels?

This should help: http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Stats

I will work on that in a later time.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

File stats are not canon, and check stats are not linear, so that won't work. All we know is that 99 is multiversal, and even a lvl 0 Frisk can still damage lvl 80 Asgore and Toriel, so...

 

[Magi_Hussie]

File stats are not canon, and check stats are not linear, so that won't work. All we know is that 99 is multiversal, and even a lvl 0 Frisk can still damage lvl 80 Asgore and Toriel, so...

They are canon, why do you see some UT characters mentioning that in their profiles? An UT character who has 99 ATK is at least Multiversal. It was a LV 1 Frisk that managed to do that by merely Determination and bypassing durability by using Soul Manipulation.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

File stats, the stats you see by looking in the the Undertale game files that tell you what the health and damage a monster will do, are not canon, and are only there because it is a game. Check stats, the stats you see when you click check, are canon and tell you how powerful a monster's ATK and DEF are in relation to other monsters, but other than 99/99 is multiversal, we have no way of telling just what Tier the check stats would make them.

Frisk does not have soul manipulation, at least not in an attack. They have only ever attacked the physical bodies of monsters - only another monster, or Chara, has ever messed with a SOUL

 

[Magi_Hussie]

File stats, the stats you see by looking in the the Undertale game files that tell you what the health and damage a monster will do, are not canon, and are only there because it is a game. Check stats, the stats you see when you click check, are canon and tell you how powerful a monster's ATK and DEF are in relation to other monsters, but other than 99/99 is multiversal, we have no way of telling just what Tier the check stats would make them.
Frisk does not have soul manipulation, at least not in an attack. They have only ever attacked the physical bodies of monsters - only another monster, or Chara, has ever messed with a SOUL

The tiering based on the check stats would be very possible to understand based on what you know about Undertale.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If you want to try, go ahead. But are you actually planning on making 18 different tiers for genocide frisk?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

If you want to try, go ahead. But are you actually planning on making 18 different tiers for genocide frisk?

No, it should be similar to Frisk's profile.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Actually don't try. Let me explain why this won't work.

Damage to monster is also done less through sheer AP and more due to the whole thing about them where they take and can do less damage to someone with less empathy / a desire to hurt others, which can screw up scaling. This is actually the only way Chara / "Genocide Frisk" can do any damage to Undyne the Undying, seeing as she has multiversal stats.

The only AP rating apart from multiversal comes from Tsunderplane, and from that scales all the other monsters. (tsunderplanes' rating doesn't make that much sense to me to begin with, seeing as I don't remember any reason we would consider her as a boeing plane of comparable size and kinetic energy from its attacks, but I'll look through the Undertale pages again. EDIT: nevermind, I looked through the calc for Tsundereplane's AP and it makes sense. Still, what I said in the previous paragraph would massively screw up any attempt at scaling

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Actually don't try. Let me explain why this won't work.

Damage to monster is also done less through sheer AP and more due to the whole thing about them where they take and can do less damage to someone with less empathy / a desire to hurt others, which can screw up scaling. This is actually the only way Chara / "Genocide Frisk" can do any damage to Undyne the Undying, seeing as she has multiversal stats.

The only AP rating apart from multiversal comes from Tsunderplane, and from that scales all the other monsters. (tsunderplanes' rating doesn't make that much sense to me to begin with, seeing as I don't remember any reason we would consider her as a boeing plane of comparable size and kinetic energy from its attacks, but I'll look through the Undertale pages again. EDIT: nevermind, I looked through the calc for Tsundereplane's AP and it makes sense. Still, what I said in the previous paragraph would massively screw up any attempt at scaling

I didn't say I was gonna do it now but in a later time.

There was barely any little to no problems w/ most of the Undertale characters with their AP.

I will at least try to make an attempt at it.