Should Genshin Impact's Hilichurl Tier really be Low 7-B?

[Second22]

I think that's too much. Actually that radius will reach 6-A. You must have forgotten to change km to m.

 

[Naito-desu]

Right my mistake, it's 5km or 5086 meters

 

[Shey]

Are we scaling the avg elemental attack to Bennett's elemental burst?, That comes off as odd, like scaling Raiden's Musou no Hitotachi to her normal blade strikes.

 

[Naito-desu]

That would be a false equivalence though, not all bursts are alike, and not to mention certain skills sometimes end up doing more damage than their burst with some characters. As far as we should be concerned, the difference between burst and skill in terms of potency should be considered mostly gameplay mechanics unless demonstrated otherwise in lore.

 

[Naito-desu]

Anyway, reading the thread, here are the possibilities I'm seeing:

• Non-destructive characters or characters with no massive feats will have High 8-C as their baseline, scaling to Bennett and Susbedo
• Higher tier ones either scale above the High 8-C characters or we revise the bamboo forest calc based on the "in-lore" scaling of the size of a bamboo forest, which would be around High 7-C (haven't bothered to really make it official though)
• Characters can be scaled to other characters like basically every Vision User to someone like Bennett but should preferably be scaled to character-specific feats

 

[Mickey1940]

Anyway, reading the thread, here are the possibilities I'm seeing:

• Non-destructive characters or characters with no massive feats will have High 8-C as their baseline, scaling to Bennett and Susbedo
• Higher tier ones either scale above the High 8-C characters or we revise the bamboo forest calc based on the "in-lore" scaling of the size of a bamboo forest, which would be around High 7-C (haven't bothered to really make it official though)
• Characters can be scaled to other characters like basically every Vision User to someone like Bennett but should preferably be scaled to character-specific feats

Susbedo should not be High 8C
He was able to throw hands with Eula and clash swords with Traveler, who at this point had already clapped Childe

As for literally featless characters like Barbara and Diona, they should be "unknown" for literally never being in any combat-related scenario in the entire series. Default High 8C doesn't make any sense since actual High 8Cs have had training to use their powers specifically in combat while other characters haven't

 

[Giannysmag]

Susbedo should not be High 8C
He was able to throw hands with Eula and clash swords with Traveler, who at this point had already clapped Childe

As for literally featless characters like Barbara and Diona, they should be "unknown" for literally never being in any combat-related scenario in the entire series. Default High 8C doesn't make any sense since actual High 8Cs have had training to use their powers specifically in combat while other characters haven't

The low tiers from what I understand don't scale to susbedo but Bennett who melted Susbedos High 8-C ice

 

[Shey]

As for literally featless characters like Barbara and Diona, they should be "unknown" for literally never being in any combat-related scenario in the entire series. Default High 8C doesn't make any sense since actual High 8Cs have had training to use their powers specifically in combat while other characters haven't

Makes sense

 

[Mickey1940]

The low tiers from what I understand don't scale to susbedo but Bennett who melted Susbedos High 8-C ice

yes I'm aware, but Susbedo himself is not High 8C due to being able to physically clash with the Traveler

 

[Avengershows]

Using the histogram tool on Photoshop, we find that the rough area of the selected forest is about 848 px^2, which when plugged into a radius calculator yields 16.42945 px, the document states there is an in-game meter for every 0.5125 pixels so:

16.42945/0.5125 = 32.05746341 in-game meters

Plugging these into the calculation, nets an 9-A+ to High 8-C

We have a canon distance of 100 miles on the map, why not just use that?

 

[Avengershows]

We have a canon distance of 100 miles on the map, why not just use that?

I just read and you corrected yourself
Ignore this

 

[Neutralino]

We have a canon distance of 100 miles on the map, why not just use that?

100 miles? Where?

 

[Avengershows]

100 miles? Where?

Entrance to Guili

 

[Neutralino]

Entrance to Guili

What's canon about the distance? Is there an in-game signpost that lists 100 miles?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

What's canon about the distance? Is there an in-game signpost that lists 100 miles?

The dialogue.

 

[Neutralino]

The dialogue.

Guili Plains

The Guili Plains (Chinese: 归离原 Guīlí-yuán) is a subarea located in Qiongji Estuary, Liyue. It was the central area of the Guili Assembly, the ancient civilization ruled by Guizhong, the God of Dust, and Morax, the God of Geo.The location's name is derived from their names,[Note 1] and it is also...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

No mention of distance here.

 

[Naito-desu]

The document I linked speculates in-game to in-lore distance with a talk about 100 miles to the west which came from the Cooking event with Xiangling.

 

[Neutralino]

The document I linked speculates in-game to in-lore distance with a talk about 100 miles to the west which came from the Cooking event with Xiangling.

Wow. Someone wrote an entire scientific paper on this topic. Nice. But I still couldn't find a mention of 100 miles or Xiangling even with CTRL-F.

 

[Naito-desu]

That's because it's in the oldest paper, I believe it's linked somewhere there

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Here you go

 

[Shey]

That's 96km away from Wangshu Inn, was that used instead of 100km?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

That's 96km away from Wangshu Inn, was that used instead of 100km?

200 Li in chinese version, which is around 100 km.

 

[Naito-desu]

Reading it again, why are we scaling Andrius to Guhua exactly? I don't really see much standing in the way of just making everyone High 8-C, we could make an exception for characters who are incredibly strong as Guhua himself is speculated to be an Adepti of sorts but I don't really see a reason why Guhua calc would scale to any of the regular Vision Users. Hell, we already make exceptions for people like Beidou (I still think her High 7-A rating is a hot load of shit), Xiao, and Shenhe, why is Guhua suddenly the focal point for characters that quite literally have no relation to him?

The justification I'm seeing for withholding the downgrades because Razor and Traveler might and I emphasize might scale to Andrius if we ignore the fact that the whole fight isn't really winnable anyway, and just plainly assume Andrius scales to Guhua for literally no good reason other than "they're both strong"

Really, all the other scaling we do is kind of horse hock given we scale Xiao to a feat that is unique to Venti, and scale to Beidou to a monster that might scale to other comparable monsters that the gods fought which we just scale to Venti's feat again. The logic is there but the justification for scaling is questionable because it relies on hasty assumptions on the relation of different characters.

 

[Naito-desu]

Now in fairness, we are applying the same logic using Susbedo's calc and scaling it to everyone else but the difference is he actually fought the traveler and co., Guhua's feat is definitely applicable to someone in Genshin but Andrius is not one of them imo

 

[Shey]

Scaramouche handblocked an Electro Polearm strike from Cyno in the trailer, I wonder what the fight was all about.

He also seems to retain that Catalyst fighting style in Cutscenes but is still an absolute unit physically

 

[Mickey1940]

Reading it again, why are we scaling Andrius to Guhua exactly? I don't really see much standing in the way of just making everyone High 8-C, we could make an exception for characters who are incredibly strong as Guhua himself is speculated to be an Adepti of sorts but I don't really see a reason why Guhua calc would scale to any of the regular Vision Users. Hell, we already make exceptions for people like Beidou (I still think her High 7-A rating is a hot load of shit), Xiao, and Shenhe, why is Guhua suddenly the focal point for characters that quite literally have no relation to him?

The justification I'm seeing for withholding the downgrades because Razor and Traveler might and I emphasize might scale to Andrius if we ignore the fact that the whole fight isn't really winnable anyway, and just plainly assume Andrius scales to Guhua for literally no good reason other than "they're both strong"

Really, all the other scaling we do is kind of horse hock given we scale Xiao to a feat that is unique to Venti, and scale to Beidou to a monster that might scale to other comparable monsters that the gods fought which we just scale to Venti's feat again. The logic is there but the justification for scaling is questionable because it relies on hasty assumptions on the relation of different characters.

Andrius =< Liyue Traveler => Ganyu = Guhua

 

[Naito-desu]

Okay that makes more sense but I'm still questioning whether Ganyu's actually High 7-C though or scales to Guhua?

 

[Shey]

Andrius =< Liyue Traveler => Ganyu = Guhua

What's the justifications for these.

Why's Liyue Traveler Superior to Andrius and Ganyu
And why is Ganyu equal to Guhua

 

[Nehz_XZX]

What's the justifications for these.

Why's Liyue Traveler Superior to Andrius and Ganyu
And why is Ganyu equal to Guhua

I don't know much about Andrius' and Guhua's scaling but Ganyu directly stated that the Traveler wasn't inferior to her in her Story Quest.

 

[Shey]

Ganyu: No, I'm aware of your strength, Traveler. The power hidden within you is not inferior to mine.
Ganyu: If you're ready, we shall begin the training

This line then?
Seems valid, at first I thought it to just be potential.
That'll be grounds for an = chain

 

[Mickey1940]

What's the justifications for these.

Why's Liyue Traveler Superior to Andrius and Ganyu
And why is Ganyu equal to Guhua

Liiyue Traveler was stated to be stronger than Ganyu by Ganyu herself in her story quest, and Traveler boxed with Andrius in Razor's

Ganyu's considered the baseline for combatant Adepti in Genshin, and even lower-level Adepti scale to higher-level Vision users due to both being able to mollywhopp the likes of Abyss Mages, who can fight against the average trained Vision User

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Liiyue Traveler was stated to be stronger than Ganyu by Ganyu herself in her story quest, and Traveler boxed with Andrius in Razor's

Ganyu's considered the baseline for combatant Adepti in Genshin, and even lower-level Adepti scale to higher-level Vision users due to both being able to mollywhopp the likes of Abyss Mages, who can fight against the average trained Vision User

And then, there Inazuma and Sumeru Traveler who dunked the gods.

 

[Mickey1940]

And then, there Inazuma and Sumeru Traveler who dunked the gods.

Inazuma Traveler's only feat is kicking Signora's ass who's still 7B

Sumeru Traveler should somewhat scale to God Scara who has a Gnosis who's High 7A to 6C iirc

 

[Naito-desu]

Gonna be honest, not convinced about scaling Ganyu to Guhua given Guhua has no reason to really have his feats scaled to anyone, and the justification for it merely being that Guhua is an adeptus or adeptus-aligned. Is there any good reason why we shouldn't just discard this besides the fact that we just arbitrarily decided that he'd scale to every Adeptus?

There's no good reason that it should really be considered a feat scalable to anyone given he has zero direct association with just about every relevant character we encounter, hell, Shenhe's 7-A calc would have more basis than this at being something Ganyu scaled to given they were both trained by Cloud Retainer, or the fact that Shenhe actually has been trained by other Adepti.

The lore behind the emergence of adepti is actually a lot like cultivation from those xia-whatever novels, so IMO universal adepti-scaling doesn't really make sense.

 

[Giannysmag]

Sumeru Traveler should somewhat scale to God Scara

Didn't Scara kill the Traveler 168 times or something like that?

 

[Mickey1940]

Didn't Scara kill the Traveler 168 times or something like that?

yes but Traveler was still able to respond to and harm Scara, so he downscales

 

[Mickey1940]

Gonna be honest, not convinced about scaling Ganyu to Guhua given Guhua has no reason to really have his feats scaled to anyone, and the justification for it merely being that Guhua is an adeptus or adeptus-aligned. Is there any good reason why we shouldn't just discard this besides the fact that we just arbitrarily decided that he'd scale to every Adeptus?

There's no good reason that it should really be considered a feat scalable to anyone given he has zero direct association with just about every relevant character we encounter, hell, Shenhe's 7-A calc would have more basis than this at being something Ganyu scaled to given they were both trained by Cloud Retainer, or the fact that Shenhe actually has been trained by other Adepti.

The lore behind the emergence of adepti is actually a lot like cultivation from those xia-whatever novels, so IMO universal adepti-scaling doesn't really make sense.

Guhua is considered an adeptus according to the lore behind the Rainslasher weapon

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Inazuma Traveler's only feat is kicking Signora's ass who's still 7B

He is fighting Ei.

 

[Shey]

Liiyue Traveler was stated to be stronger than Ganyu by Ganyu herself in her story quest,

Misinterpretation of her statement, she said he's not inferior, not that he's stronger

and Traveler boxed with Andrius in Razor's

Okay I guess?
But Andrius has no reason to scale to Guhua

Ganyu's considered the baseline for combatant Adepti in Genshin, and even lower-level Adepti scale to higher-level Vision users due to both being able to mollywhopp the likes of Abyss Mages, who can fight against the average trained Vision User

I don't recall instances of Abyss mages not losing to an avg trained vision user

 

[Mickey1940]

Misinterpretation of her statement, she said he's not inferior, not that he's stronger

Okay I guess?
But Andrius has no reason to scale to Guhua

I don't recall instances of Abyss mages not losing to an avg trained vision user

same thing, they both have the same tier

Andrius scales to Liyue Traveler who scales to Ganyu who is an adeptus, and Guhua is also considered an adeptus

They can still harm Vision users and give them a tough time