Should Genshin Impact's Hilichurl Tier really be Low 7-B?

[Shey]

Link is broken. I can't watch the video

Try again, fixed it, it's at 2:45
There's the lightning blast here, I can't find the 1st Phase in game cutscene on YT tho, might have to record that by one's self

It also has Scaramouche zipping across the screen at 3:40 (But he's MHS+ in my heart)

 

[Second22]

Try again, fixed it, it's at 2:45
There's the lightning blast here, I can't find the 1st Phase in game cutscene on YT tho, might have to record that by one's self

Work now, Got a question, is the ground in the video dirt or rock?

 

[Second22]

You just fixed the video link. look again

 

[Shey]

Work now, Got a question, is the ground in the video dirt or rock?

I think just use Concrete, I saw a little article about concrete in old West Asia

1m 45s is the feat I was looking for

Sorry if I seem incoherent

Edit: Someone just reminded me of this one

Eula blocking a pyro bullet and other stuff in it, but speed is kinda unknown maybe we could use gun estimates ig

 

[Mand21]

Genshin Impact: Childe breaks the floor

vsbattles.fandom.com

Genshin Impact: Albedo dodging arrow

vsbattles.fandom.com

Isn't Childe's feat supposed to only scale to Harbingers? Or would Childe scale down to trained Vision users?

I think just use Concrete, I saw a little article about concrete in old West Asia

1m 45s is the feat I was looking for

Sorry if I seem incoherent

Edit: Someone just reminded me of this one

Eula blocking a pyro bullet and other stuff in it, but speed is kinda unknown maybe we could use gun estimates ig

Yooooooooooooooooo is that a bullet parrying feat we have here?! Can we scale that bullet to normal bullets? And if so, does it get better than Albedo dodging an arrow?

 

[Second22]

Edit: Someone just reminded me of this one

Eula blocking a pyro bullet and other stuff in it, but speed is kinda unknown maybe we could use gun estimates ig

Will try this.

 

[Second22]

Genshin Impact: Eula blocking a pyro bullet

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Second22]

Anddddd 2 calc got accepted now

 

[Mand21]

Both are accepted! Eula's stuff should scale to... Trained Vision Users? So basically the whole mid-tier, right? Does anybody else scale to her?

Also, so can we consider that:

Trained Vision Users ->
AP = 8-C from back-scaling from Childe? I imagine since he's the weakest Harbinger but was using his Electro Delusion at full power there, they should ALL be weaker than him, but 8-C begins at 0.25 tons. So the weakest ones should still be 9-A+ or at the very least high end 9-A, whereas the strongest ones should be close to baseline 8-C, right?
Speed -> Around Mach 2 (Supersonic) from scaling at Eula's level or somewhat below or slightly above (am I right to say Eula is in-lore at somewhere around the higher end of the mid-tier characters?).

I'm trying to now determine where we place all these characters around them, basically.

Either way, EVERYONE in the mid-tier should be Supersonic, which includes all the currently Low 7-B through 7-B characters, meanwhile EVERYONE in the mid-tier should be... 8-C if they're currently listed as 7-B, and 9-A+ if they're currently listed as Low 7-B? Idk.

 

[Naito-desu]

Bennett's feat of instantly melting an ice sculpture would be a better thing to scale vision users to, Childe can be used to scale to characters who are comparable or superior to the Liyue Traveler. I think even though we're dunking the low 7-B calc, we should follow the vague scaling chain that we previously used.

As for Eula, she would be around the level of Jean, who was able to slice many Ruin Guards to ribbons in some throwaway description, which would make her comparable to FLT childe

 

[Mand21]

Bennett's feat of instantly melting an ice sculpture would be a better thing to scale vision users to, Childe can be used to scale to characters who are comparable or superior to the Liyue Traveler

Do you have the video?
Also, Childe can kinda scale, but they'd all downscale from him, right?

 

[Naito-desu]

Here, it's during the Susbedo fight, also looking at it, it seems to be a mix of frag and melt

 

[Jackpact]

Base Childe would downscale from that feat outside of FLT since FLT >> Delusion >> Vision, so anyone that scale/downscale to base Childe would be dunked down to 9A.

Also it's pretty redundant to calc the Scara electro blast feat cause he scale to 7A anyway.

Edit: also we should just go by feat and not just lump all vision holder into a trained and untrained group, since Klee who isn't trained at all fodderized Primo Geovishap while people like Barbara is technically trained and her best feat is from statement of beating treasure hoarder.

 

[Naito-desu]

I don't really think trained or untrained is a correct way to distinguish them, I think combat-oriented and not combat-oriented is more apt in describing the distinction. Klee may not be trained in regular combat but is absolutely practiced in the arts of destruction, not to mention she is kind of a special exception for many reasons.

 

[Mand21]

Here, it's during the Susbedo fight, also looking at it, it seems to be a mix of frag and melt

Seems more like frag than melt. He just seems to have busted it and maybe the heat from the fire made it easier, but that was that. Ice is a very fragile material, BTW: just half a Joule (0.5271 J/cc) per cubic centimeter to bust. Do calc it, but I'd be surprised if it's even 9-A.

I don't really think trained or untrained is a correct way to distinguish them, I think combat-oriented and not combat-oriented is more apt in describing the distinction. Klee may not be trained in regular combat but is absolutely practiced in the arts of destruction, not to mention she is kind of a special exception for many reasons.

Kinda. The reason we use "untrained" is because they're equivalent to the Hilichurl tier. But yeah, non-combat oriented Vision users are Hilichurl tier.

 

[Jackpact]

Actually, are there any reason for the high tier to not get downgraded to supersonic? Also should we put characters like Lisa who have actual lightning attacks a seperate speed for it or do we just assume that it's magic and isn't natural lightning?

 

[Second22]

Genshin Impact: Albedo creating ice

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Naito-desu]

Geez, that's basically 10x the Childe calc

 

[Mand21]

Actually, are there any reason for the high tier to not get downgraded to supersonic? Also should we put characters like Lisa who have actual lightning attacks a seperate speed for it or do we just assume that it's magic and isn't natural lightning?

Magic and therefore probably not natural lightning, yeah.

Genshin Impact: Albedo creating ice

vsbattles.fandom.com

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, THIS IS GOOD! Hey, Susbedo is fought by a large team of people, though... but it doesn't one-shot any of them. Yeah, I guess we can put all Combatant Vision Users around the level of Childe and Susbedo, then, right?!

And their speed should be around Mach 2!

Idk as to the speed of the high tiers (Harbingers, Adepti and similar ones) and Archons, though. Do we... do we actually get to nerf THE ENTIRETY of Genshin Impact? hehe

 

[Second22]

Genshin Impact: Albedo creating ice

vsbattles.fandom.com

The calculations are now accepted. Are there any other feats that need to be calculated?

 

[Mand21]

I think now all we need to do is properly decide which characters get what tiers.

We know mid-tiers should be approximately High 8-C in pretty much all cases, and they're also around Mach 2 (so all of them should be Supersonic unless one of them is much faster than Albedo for whatever reason). But who gets specifically what place by downscaling or upscaling from our source feats?

 

[Shey]

I missed a lot of things it's good we've made headway, but I'm a bit skeptical about using the Susbedo does it calc him freezing the air? Cause that doesn't seem to me like what he's doing

 

[Second22]

I missed a lot of things it's good we've made headway, but I'm a bit skeptical about using the Susbedo does it calc him freezing the air? Cause that doesn't seem to me like what he's doing

At the point where I calculated the ice, the ground was observed to be a colored stone after Bennett dissolved the block of ice. Therefore, generally, I think he created it. Susbedo can also create ice from the air multiple times, so I think it can use the formula for freezing air. Furthermore, even if it is not freezing air, we can still calculate the energy from the block of ice dissolved by Bennett, which requires Fusion of Freezing Water. Therefore, the energy is almost the same since most of the energy comes from the Fusion of Freezing Water.

 

[Shey]

At the point where I calculated the ice, the ground was observed to be a colored stone after Bennett dissolved the block of ice. Therefore, generally, I think he created it. Susbedo can also create ice from the air multiple times, so I think it can use the formula for freezing air. Furthermore, even if it is not freezing air, we can still calculate the energy from the block of ice dissolved by Bennett, which requires Fusion of Freezing Water. Therefore, the energy is almost the same since most of the energy comes from the Fusion of Freezing Water.

Yeah I know he can freeze air, the scene of his Ice looks like it's spiking out of the ground rather than air being frozen, I do think though that Bennett's Frag(?)Melt(?)-ing of it should be used for scaling

 

[Mand21]

Well, let's have all three calcs. Either way, even on the lowest of ends we should just go back to Childe's 8-C, right?

 

[Second22]

Yeah I know he can freeze air, the scene of his Ice looks like it's spiking out of the ground rather than air being frozen, I do think though that Bennett's Frag(?)Melt(?)-ing of it should be used for scaling

But the point is that even if it creates ice from the ground, it's true. But the ground isn't ice, I'm sure we can use the air freeze formula.

 

[Giannysmag]

There's another speed feat for the mid-tiers, that could be calculable, of Jean moving faster than Amber can perceive

 

[Naito-desu]

She really just cut a Ruin Guard before Amber realized it huh

 

[Mand21]

Jean is a mid-tier herself, though. Is she any better than Eula?

Anyways, I believe it's a good idea to calc that feat. How much distance has she moved? The time for not being perceived is, I believe, one or two miliseconds.

 

[Giannysmag]

The time for not being perceived is, I believe, one or two miliseconds

I think it's more like 1/75th of a second

 

[Mand21]

Oh. Still, can anyone do the calc? I'm not exactly unable to do it, but I'm so rusty I'd spend more time looking after how to do it than actually doing it, and that's knowing I'd take longer than normal to do it.

 

[Shey]

Is it really necessary to calc it?
I don't see it being faster than Eula's Supersonic calc and Jean scales to Eula or rather Eula scales to Jean but whatever

 

[Second22]

Yeah, I don't think that feat is necessary. The result is too low.

 

[Mand21]

Ok, so, how do we scale the characters?

My idea of scaling was a simple swap for the AP part:

Any character who is currently listed as Low 7-B -> goes to 8-C
Any character who is currently listed as 7-B -> goes to High 8-C and scales directly to Bennett.
Hilichurl tier -> 9-A? They should be able to INJURE our lower end Vision users, though it is chip damage.

Everybody's speed should be within the Supersonic range for our normal vision users, meanwhile Adepti/Harbingers should be Supersonic+ and idk the archons at all.

 

[Second22]

Any character who is currently listed as Low 7-B -> goes to 8-C

I don't think low-tier characters can scale with Childe at 8-C using the Foul Legacy Transformation. They still don't have feats that can scale at all.

Any character who is currently listed as 7-B -> goes to High 8-C and scales directly to Bennett.

Seem yeah.

Hilichurl tier -> 9-A? They should be able to INJURE our lower end Vision users, though it is chip damage.

How they can 9-A?

Everybody's speed should be within the Supersonic range for our normal vision users, meanwhile Adepti/Harbingers should be Supersonic+ and idk the archons at all.

What did they get supersonic+ from?

 

[Mand21]

Supersonic+ comes from the fact they should be at least 25% faster than Mach 2 Eula, which seems perfectly reasonable to me, idk your opinion but to me it would be weird if they weren't.

As for 8-C and 9-A, it was just my attempt at downscaling people from our Mondstadtian Pyro Archon boi. You can give your own suggestions.

 

[Second22]

Supersonic+ comes from the fact they should be at least 25% faster than Mach 2 Eula, which seems perfectly reasonable to me, idk your opinion but to me it would be weird if they weren't.

Um, I'm not sure if it's possible to increase speed to supersonic+ using this method.

As for 8-C and 9-A, it was just my attempt at downscaling people from our Mondstadtian Pyro Archon boi. You can give your own suggestions.

I think we should have a solid number to scale them to 9-A. Giving 9-A for reasons like this doesn't work.

 

[Second22]

Do you have context that Adepti/Harbingers are faster than Mach 2 Eula?

 

[Mand21]

Well, we have some apparent feats. Traveler in Scaramouche story quest (in the cutscene where he regains his memories) moves insanely fast to slice a huge ice projectile to pieces in the blink of an eye. Scaramouche then moves faster than Traveler can react in order to help them dodge (or maybe to block for them? idk) an Electro blast.

Traveler by this point seems faster than they used to be, as this kind of feat is much fancier than anything they do in Liyue or Mondstadt, which leads me to believe they've become faster. Meanwhile Scaramouche is EVEN FASTER once he awakens his Anemo Vision.

So yeah, I'd bet Adepti can blitz Eula. Especially when one of them blesses us, during the Liyue fight, with greater speed to deal with that ancient deity!

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So with all this stuff accepted, any of you guys will make a new profiles later on?