SHINZA IS BACK!!!!!

[Vasco]

Of course, without context it could just be High 1B, which is beyond any expansion of finite dimensions

Without context it could just be a single qualitative superiority of the dimensions in existence in the verse.

All he said is that all things being zero or whatever is the equivalent of a singular transcendence.

Agreed.

 

[Darksmash]

prove you did not read what I wrote in the blog, so I will imploy you to read again. If I added the throne to be a regular dimension we will be talking about 13. (4+9) and not (4+8)

That's more the fault of your blog for not wording it directly, but sure. This doesn't change my arguments however as the throne is still one of the dimensions.

Edit: nvm I misread that. The blog words it fine. So ignore this.

Also the "tier 0 can also be called higher dimensional" excuse doesn't work for Shinza because the arguments strongly hinge upon the semantics of what dimensions mean in-verse and why something like the throne or singularity is supposed to be strongly disconnected from that in the first place.

 

[Delta333]

all the stuffs from Yuri downgrade as to do with mistranslation and the gods being referred to as Higher dimensional, but hey news flash, even a tier 0 can be referred to as higher dimensional by a 3-D and it will not change anything

Then what's your point when saying this?

They are also the source of all concept in the verse and they transcend all of these concepts which would include concepts of dimensions (which also exists in the verse).

 

[Darksmash]

Yeah that's the point. Shinza's arguments strongly hinge upon the nature of dimensions in-verse and transcending that. 1-A beings being called "higher dimensional" would have been fine if it actually got that from legitimate cosmology or hierarchies, not a bunch of extreme mental gymnastics about dimensions.

 

[PrinceofPein]

That's more the fault of your blog for not wording it directly, but sure. This doesn't change my arguments however as the throne is still one of the dimensions.

Also the "tier 0 can also be called higher dimensional" excuse doesn't work for Shinza because the arguments strongly hinge upon the semantics of what dimensions mean in-verse and why something like the throne or singularity is supposed to be strongly disconnected from that in the first place.

yes one of those dimensions but said to be deeper and unreachable no matter how much you shed yourself and ascend.
The throne is part of the sephiroth, the sephiroth has 10 dimensions throne included, by ascending higher you can access the other dimensinos but no matter how much you ascend you cannot reach the throne. Stop acting like you cannot comprehend what I am saying.
Aside PL, we have statements from other works of the throne transcending all things in creation just like PL said, and PL does not contradict this.
Since you have said nothing that is valid so far, I will ignore you\

Then what's your point when saying this?

oh boy, sigh
I obviously mean dimensions in the context of 1-B in that contexts, or do I need to write 5 lines explaining that too, can you guys actually bring refutation instead of just acting just saying obvious things, but since you guys want to act this way, I will keep dumbing it down for you. so let me explain
If you are proven to or have enough reason to prove that you are 1-A, then you being called Higher D will not matter anymore. So yes the Gods have been proven to be 1-A, above all of creation and whatever you do to it, then Soujiro refering to an attack as higher dimensional no longer matter.

Yeah that's the point. Shinza's arguments strongly hinge upon the nature of dimensions in-verse and transcending that. 1-A beings being called "higher dimensional" would have been fine if it actually got that from legitimate cosmology or hierarchies, not a bunch of extreme mental gymnastics about dimensions.

Again bring actual refutation, all these as far as I am concerned is irrelevant and just you and your bias talking

 

[Tarang123]

Without context it could just be a single qualitative superiority of the dimensions in existence in the verse.

Not according to the question asked to Ultima and his response

all the stuffs from Yuri downgrade as to do with mistranslation and the gods being referred to as Higher dimensional, but hey news flash, even a tier 0 can be referred to as higher dimensional by a 3-D and it will not change anything

You have to actually debunk it. You can label anything as a mistranslation.

are you sure you also read the blog?

You referring to the Paralost stuff? I did read it, but I kept seeing the 4D universe there

And again nothing to debunk from Yuri's downgrade, you can call tier 0 higher D and nothing changes

Not when Shinza’s entire rating is based on being above these concepts

 

[PrinceofPein]

You have to actually debunk it. You can label anything as a mistranslation.

lmao stop acting like you were not on the server when Yuri admitted it, or do I need to dig that out too?
Also literally everyone else including Trex said it is a mistranslation, do I need to bring out something you have seen before?

You referring to the Paralost stuff? I did read it, but I kept seeing the 4D universe there

in the sephiroth the human universe (4-D) is the lowest one, that is where 4 came from

Not when Shinza’s entire rating is based on being above these concepts

No again the rating is not based on that, that is just a supporting feat, but hey let DT read the blog

 

[Delta333]

oh boy, sigh
I obviously mean dimensions in the context of 1-B in that contexts, or do I need to write 5 lines explaining that too, can you guys actually bring refutation instead of just acting just saying obvious things, but since you guys want to act this way, I will keep dumbing it down for you. so let me explain
If you are proven to or have enough reason to prove that you are 1-A, then you being called Higher D will not matter anymore. So yes the Gods have been proven to be 1-A, above all of creation and whatever you do to it, then Soujiro refering to an attack as higher dimensional no longer matter.

Never said that you cannot be 1-A without being called as higher D so you don't need to repeated that again. Here I'm asking you if the dimensionless thing is not the basis for being beyond all extensions of the structure then what's is the idea for that? Just being beyond a 1-B structure? (assuming it is actually 1-B)

 

[Tarang123]

lmao stop acting like you were not on the server when Yuri admitted it, or do I need to dig that out too?
Also literally everyone else including Trex said it is a mistranslation, do I need to bring out something you have seen before?

I actually don’t have that Trex bit, but the point is that you have to publicly debunk it.

No again the rating is not based on that, that is just a supporting feat, but hey let DT read the blog

…what?
Also, I also asked input from Ultima on discord. He said he’ll respond later

 

[PrinceofPein]

Never said that you cannot be 1-A without being called as higher D so you don't need to repeated that again. Here I'm asking you if the dimensionless thing is not the basis for being beyond all extensions of the structure then what's is the idea for that? Just being beyond a 1-B structure? (assuming it is actually 1-B)

The thing in the confluence and below is the reason, and it has been expantiated prior to that.
The reason is mainly because, when the universe was a regular universe, then it became 1-B and then it became a regular universe again, it made no difference to the gods and yato simply views creation as mandala. now coupled with statement of them transcending and being the origin of laws, phenomenons and concepts. well it is just straightforward.

I actually don’t have that Trex bit, but the point is that you have to publicly debunk it.

So you are saying I can just post where he admitted he was wrong and we will be done with it?
While I can do that, why do I need to do that?, when I just made a new CRT, if anyone has any contention they can bring it and I am sure no one can use Yuri's mistranslation here.

 

[Tarang123]

So you are saying I can just post where he admitted he was wrong and we will be done with it?

Yuri never said he was wrong, and again you seem to be missing the point. In order for a 1A debate for Shinza, you need to given an in-depth breakdown of Yuri’s thread and explain why it’s not valid

 

[Panpanpanjeidj]

 

[Vasco]

Not according to the question asked to Ultima and his response

I could depends on context, so far only the root truly qualifies for such as it's said to be beyond any dimensional theory.

I actually had a laugh from this.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Dance, for this entire thread is naught but a stage with the goddess in lead role and you are performers who dance to my script. Now let us begin this evening's grand guigol.

 

[Tarang123]

I could depends on context, so far only the root truly qualifies for such as it's said to be beyond any dimensional theory.

SMT as well. Anyway, it’s best to stop using his name as a crutch. I’ve sent the blog to him to get input. He’ll respond in a few hours

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yuri never said he was wrong, and again you seem to be missing the point. In order for a 1A debate for Shinza, you need to given an in-depth breakdown of Yuri’s thread and explain why it’s not valid

No I dont have to, I just have to create another thread and see if people agree, and people agreed
And yes Yuri said he is wrong, but that aside, this is the valid TL
24 layers
it doesnt mean 二十四次元 it is 二十四の次元断層 24 is the amount of shields
As yakou gets stronger, he can make more shields
空間すら焼き消すというのなら、彼はその空間そのものに【次元の断層】を生み出した。【位相を三つは焼き尽くすも、展開された相は七。】総てを滅却することは出来ず寸前にて停止する。 the first time he made 7 shields and 3 shields were broken

 

[Tarang123]

No I dont have to, I just have to create another thread and see if people agree, and people agreed
And yes Yuri said he is wrong, but that aside, this is the valid TL
24 layers
it doesnt mean 二十四次元 it is 二十四の次元断層 24 is the amount of shields
As yakou gets stronger, he can make more shields
空間すら焼き消すというのなら、彼はその空間そのものに【次元の断層】を生み出した。【位相を三つは焼き尽くすも、展開された相は七。】総てを滅却することは出来ず寸前にて停止する。 the first time he made 7 shields and 3 shields were broken

First of all, yes you do. Those past arguments still stand unless they’re addressed.

As for the barriers thing, great. That didn’t really debunk much

 

[Vasco]

SMT as well. Anyway, it’s best to stop using his name as a crutch. I’ve sent the blog to him to get input. He’ll respond in a few hours

Isn't it stated to be beyond the concept of dimensions, i only called his name once, he probably will but his been busy lately with several threads he hasn't responded too.

 

[Tarang123]

Isn't it stated to be beyond the concept of dimensions, i only called his name once, he probably will but his been busy lately with several threads he hasn't responded too.

There’s more related to it, but I’m not getting much more into that. As for Ultima, he said he’ll r give a reply later. Not sure if it’ll be on the wiki or on discord

 

[PrinceofPein]

First of all, yes you do. Those past arguments still stand unless they’re addressed.

read again, being referred to as higher D means nothing anymore

And the next message will make it 4 pages, so please no more derailing

 

[Scottycj256]

finally, we can humble Fate fans again

no longer will we let their shenanigans run rampant, cuz we'll just stomp them lol

agreed with everything

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

finally, we can humble Fate fans again

no longer will we let their shenanigans run rampant, cuz we'll just stomp them lol

whoa whoa dude, hold your horses. Shinza is currently screwing around at tier 1-C or something. Go to world of darkness or scp instead.

 

[Tarang123]

It’s best for both sides to create a post about their arguments for the respective tiers they’re aiming for.

 

[Potemkat]

That isn't really what happened. He didn't add parallel universes, he rewrote the system itself allowing for the existence of alternate universes.

It's the same thing. He needed to change the system to have parallel universes and it changed things a lot.

Also I searched a bit, and lots of things in the blog are just copying what someone say here and here.

It doesn't seem very organized at all...

 

[Tarang123]

It's the same thing. He needed to change the system to have parallel universes and it changed things a lot.

Also I searched a bit, and lots of things in the blog are just copying what someone said here and here.

It doesn't seem very organized at all...

It isn’t the same thing at all. There is a difference between changing the universe to a multiverse to the point where it made a multiverse and changing a system to the point where a rule that was never thought of before was added. That is essentially what happened.

The rest of what you said regarding the copy-paste stuff is accurate though

 

[PrinceofPein]

It's the same thing. He needed to change the system to have parallel universes and it changed things a lot.

Also I searched a bit, and lots of things in the blog are just copying what someone say here and here.

It doesn't seem very organized at all...

or they are from here and here? shinza wiki and my thread.
Maybe a few things looks the same, but and so what? are they inaccurate? NO
That is all that matters
Edit: went through the two links you sent, and all I can say is how did you come to conclusion I copy and pasted when it is not the same thing to begin with? Or do you think the quotes from the work will change based on each new blog or thread?
I really do not understand this whole hey you copied from here thing. Any thing said, in that blog I provided proof of.
What you should be concerned about is, if these things are accurate or not. And so far no one here has brought an argument like that.

Also you and tarang stop derailing

 

[Potemkat]

It isn’t the same thing at all. There is a difference between changing the universe to a multiverse to the point where it made a multiverse and changing a system to the point where a rule that was never thought of before was added. That is essentially what happened.

Satanael already started doing that, it's how Mercurius arrived and how Satanael became God.

If it was just this, Satanael would be the one who revolutionized things. Mercurius arrived from another timeline and expanded Throne's influence.

 

[Potemkat]

or they are from here and here? shinza wiki and my thread.
Maybe a few things looks the same, but and so what? are they inaccurate? NO
That is all that matters
Edit: went through the two links you sent, and all I can say is how did you come to conclusion I copy and pasted when it is not the same thing to begin with? Or do you think the quotes from the work will change based on each new blog or thread?
I really do not understand this whole hey you copied from here thing. Any thing said, in that blog I provided proof of.
What you should be concerned about is, if these things are accurate or not. And so far no one here has brought an argument like that.

I showed there's a weird things in the blog...

Also it's not just the text of the game you copied, it's what the person said.
You said there's a lot of organization, but it's not very organized..

Another weird thing in the translations:

前述した水中の法が太極と化したなら、全 宇宙が水底に変わるというだけのこと。

Blog says it says: ll. If the aforementioned Law that exists underwater were to change into Taikyoku, All of Creation's underwater areas would also be changed to comply.
But it says: If the underwater Law changed to Taikyoku, everything would be like the bottom of water.

It also removed things like some sentences after it. I don't think it's a true translation if it removes part of what the character explains without saying it...

 

[Darksmash]

Bro linked Zouken's wiki which is notorious for misinformation

 

[Robo432343]

Wait… wasn’t this debunked by yuri before??

 

[PrinceofPein]

I showed there's a weird things in the blog...

Also it's not just the text of the game you copied, it's what the person said.
You said there's a lot of organization, but it's not very organized..

and is there any scan or statement I made that I did not provide proof of in the blog?
Like stop with this nitpicking and actually bring out the misinformation

Another weird thing in the translations:

前述した水中の法が太極と化したなら、全 宇宙が水底に変わるというだけのこと。

Blog says it says: ll. If the aforementioned Law that exists underwater were to change into Taikyoku, All of Creation's underwater areas would also be changed to comply.
But it says: If the underwater Law changed to Taikyoku, everything would be like the bottom of water.

you are using MTL? i mean this is obvious, it is not a bad thing don't get me wrong but both thing you posted have the same context just that MTL butchered the TL a bit.
That said, this shows you are nitpicking needlessly, and I will like for you to stop cause the actual TL and the MTL means the same thing

It also removed things like some sentences after it. I don't think it's a true translation if it removes part of what the character explains without saying it...

And why don't you post those statement and tell me how they are relevant to the point I was trying to make? or how they disprove my point?

Bro linked Zouken's wiki which is notorious for misinformation

linked the wrong wiki, the link has been fixed, that said, I do not care about misinformation in any wiki, what I care about is the one in my blog that you have yet to point out

 

[Potemkat]

and is there any scan or statement I made that I did not provide proof of in the blog?
Like stop with this nitpicking and actually bring out the misinformation

It's not nitpicking.. You said you were very organized and it was ready.

You are using MTL? i mean this is obvious, it is not a bad thing don't get me wrong but both thing you posted have the same context just that MTL butchered the TL a bit.
That said, this shows you are nitpicking needlessly, and I will like for you to stop cause the actual TL and the MTL means the same thing

Why would I use machines???
I forgot to include 前述した though, sorry.
The two are very different tho, one says that Taikyoku would change every part of the universe which is underwater; and the other say the entire universe would be underwater. The second one is the true one, since that's how things work. Fuji didn't want to go to the Throne because all the universe would be stopped, not because the parts of the universe that are stopped would change.

And why don't you post those statement and tell me how they are relevant to the point I was trying to make? or how they disprove my point?

It's in the video in blog... Yakou is explaining the difference between Gudou and Hadou.

I'll take the scene from the first sentence you translated to the last one:

無論、世に法則といったものは無限に近く存在するし、それら一つ一つが太極というわけではない。
現実に刃物は切るという法則を帯びているし、火は燃やすという法則がある。 水中の法則ならば肺呼吸ができないというものであろうし、そうした細々としたものは単なる物理だ。重要なのは規模、密度。 その法を構成する単位が宇宙という規格であり、ゆえにそれのみをもって独立した世界となり得るものを太極と定義する。何も難しい話ではない。前述した水中の法が太極と化したなら、全宇宙が水底に変わるというだけのこと。もしくは、宇宙を砕く領域の法でなければ蒸発も凍結もしない水が誕生するだけのこと。前者を覇道。後者を求道。己が法則で森羅万象を制圧する太極と、己が法則のみ森羅万象から外れるという太極である。この法を色と呼び、それを決定するのは人の想念。 我は何々がした い、何々になりたい。そうした祈りや願い、つまり渇望と言われるものが、太極を発生させる原動力となる。

What I put is bold is what you removed. Why did you do that?

It is important because it means the blog change things without telling people, and I don't think it's very honest..

 

[Chasekilleen]

Satanael already started doing that, it's how Mercurius arrived and how Satanael became God.

Mercurius only arrived due to a bug that Satanuel miscalculated by constantly updating his world like a computer. He made three errors. The first is that he had manipulate cause and effect to get rid of Muzan.

Due to Satanael manipulating the time axis, this created a chain reaction, leading to the creation of multiple parallel universes.

The final reason is because Satanuel deemed the unknown as wicked and evil, Satanuel wanted knowledge more than anything. This backfired on him it gave birth to an entity that is obsessed with the unknown.

Mercury is a full blooded God that came from a parallel world and he expanded his domain into a 多元宇宙的な領域.

 

[PrinceofPein]

It's not nitpicking.. You said you were very organized and it was ready.

the pages are ready, the blog literally made 48hrs ago based on DT request, so again it is nitpicking, based on something I had to quickly.
That said, if you have any more contention, write them up in a single post and send, stop sending them one by one

Why would I use machines???
I forgot to include 前述した though, sorry.
The two are very different tho, one says that Taikyoku would change every part of the universe which is underwater; and the other say the entire universe would be underwater. The second one is the true one, since that's how things work. Fuji didn't want to go to the Throne because all the universe would be stopped, not because the parts of the universe that are stopped would change.

It's in the video in blog... Yakou is explaining the difference between Gudou and Hadou.

I'll take the scene from the first sentence you translated to the last one:

無論、世に法則といったものは無限に近く存在するし、それら一つ一つが太極というわけではない。
現実に刃物は切るという法則を帯びているし、火は燃やすという法則がある。 水中の法則ならば肺呼吸ができないというものであろうし、そうした細々としたものは単なる物理だ。重要なのは規模、密度。 その法を構成する単位が宇宙という規格であり、ゆえにそれのみをもって独立した世界となり得るものを太極と定義する。何も難しい話ではない。前述した水中の法が太極と化したなら、全宇宙が水底に変わるというだけのこと。もしくは、宇宙を砕く領域の法でなければ蒸発も凍結もしない水が誕生するだけのこと。前者を覇道。後者を求道。己が法則で森羅万象を制圧する太極と、己が法則のみ森羅万象から外れるという太極である。この法を色と呼び、それを決定するのは人の想念。 我は何々がした い、何々になりたい。そうした祈りや願い、つまり渇望と言われるものが、太極を発生させる原動力となる。

What I put is bold is what you removed. Why did you do that?

and how is something saying one is hegemony and one is not really relevant to the point there? and it was really just that it was me typing out the major points.
Anyway the bolded part of the blog is the point of it, I just added those before and after for more contexts, and I also updated the TL according, but the difference of hegemony and transcendent part is not needed

It is important because it means the blog change things without telling people, and I don't think it's very honest..

I think you are grasping for straw here and I will say this is not the thread for it.
If you have an actual misinformation, let me know

 

[Hasty12345]

The fact this blog was “thrown together” and not peinstakingly drafted and carefully translated given this verses history probably speaks to the fact the verse isn’t ready to come back to the wiki.

 

[Chasekilleen]

The fact this blog was “thrown together” and not peinstakingly drafted and carefully translated given this verses history probably speaks to the fact the verse isn’t ready to come back to the wiki.

Would you say that it was put together too hastily.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The fact this blog was “thrown together” and not peinstakingly drafted and carefully translated given this verses history probably speaks to the fact the verse isn’t ready to come back to the wiki.

nice pun
There was no plan to make a cosmology blog like this rather it was supposed to be a page for our wiki after all is accepted and pages are back, the oages have been gone through and ready and also the physiology page, till DT said I should make a blog so he can evaluate this.
Also something missing one kanji and also a sentence, both irrelevant to the thread means nothing.
Also the fact that this was done within 2 days and literally not one purposeful misinformation has been pointed out says a lot about the fact well at least the new fans will not lie on the pages.
And you guys keep acting like you cannot see this, acting like this was a blog we wrote for years, it has been barely 3 days

https://vsbattles.com/threads/shinza-is-back.149258/post-5475251

https://vsbattles.com/threads/shinza-is-back.149258/post-5475260

to quote the messages
DT:

That aside, wouldn't it make more sense to make the cosmology blog first, see if it holds up to scrutiny and people actually can agree on stuff and then decide if the pages come back?

Me:

Then if people will give us 48hrs, we can complete it 24hrs, then we will probably argue on it and decide in the next 24 so yes 48hrs.

So yes the blog was not part of the plan for the return but rather, it gets accepted a new thread is made then we post the verse and character pages for approval and reason for a tier for them, the cosmology page would have been till later since it is something we have gathered hundreds of scans for to say the least.
This one I put together was made as a summary and using few of those scans just to point out the relevant things, and yes it is accurate. the only reason is is possible is because we have the scans already and I have a bullet point on how it will be structured.

So I will appreciate it if people stop undermining my effort when you cannot do the same, it being put togther promptly does not mean it is wrong or inaccurate, which is the only argument that can be against it and so far I have found none that says that

 

[Hasty12345]

Would you say that it was put together too hastily.

Potentially

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Bruh, this is why you should use teamwork to create something as big as this.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Bruh, this is why you should use teamwork to create something as big as this.

Well it was team work, at least the scans was from everyone, none of the scans used in the blog was from me and the blog too was well a bit of the team work, no one in the server disagrees with it in general to my knowledge.