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Took me long enough.
Introductio
As the new system has been implemented, I suppose that it's high time we wrapped this up, once and for all. You might as well consider this thread another addition of my little Masadaverse revision that was deployed several months ago, with similar purpose of improving the page (adds link) underlying the legitimacy of Masadaverse current 1-A ratings. Some other possible changes for the cosmology will also be proposed here, as the verse requires far more discussing than what it usually gets.
Whether the changes should be implemented or not should be discussed in this thread, obviously.
NOTE: I'd like to give some credits ( actually a lot, but they claimed that they didn't help much.
) SleepyTBubble, Dysmity and few other Masadanerds for helping out with getting the scans and the making of this thread. I'm truly thankful, and very sorry for disappearing and being unavailable for so long.
Part 1: 1-A Justifications
Should be rather obvious what I'm getting at ― the 1-A/Taikyoku/Atziluth/Whateveryouwanttocallit section provides less evidence than what it should have, a lot less, if I may say so ― this is essentially proven by the number of threads asking for proof in the past. This revision will, hopefully, reaffirm its legitimacy.
As per the new system: In order for a character to be 1-A, they should display superiority over infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, or are at least stated to be superior to such structures hierarchies, even if such things don't exist in their franchise.
I believe that the latter should be apt for Masadaverse, and here are the reasons and scans.
Taikyoku is explicitly stated to be the root of all things, and is essentially the origin of all phenomena and concepts in the universe.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616966401344667678/image0.png
Taikyoku--Origin of all things in Onmyoudou (Way of Yin and Yang), concept pointing to the nucleus of the universe.
This is referred to Yin-Yang or Duality, as Taikyoku is sourec of everything.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616966401969881138/image1.png
To draw power and grasp the knowledge of everything, the source of all phenomena and the origin of all things. To see all and do all. - This includes the infinite concepts constituding the multiverse.
That wouldn't be enough, of course. Fortunately, we more scans regarding the matter.
Here is Yakou talking about the nature of Taikyoku.
Of course, in this World, a near infinite number of Laws exist, it doesn't mean that each one of those can be called Taikyoku
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967148593479701/image0.png
In reality, cutlery carries a Law called "cutting", fire has a Law called "burning". In the case of the Law that exists while underwater, something like pulmonary respiration cannot happen. Such assorted Laws are mere physics.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967172887019530/image0.png
What's important is scale, density. The denomination of the form the Law takes is, by standard, "universe", therefore, getting to become an independent World is Takyoku's definition.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967208559575052/image0.png
It's not difficult talk at all. If the aforementioned Law that exists underwater were to change into Taikyoku, All of Creation's underwater areas would also be changed to comply.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967273264971787/image0.png
My own Law which lets me gain total control of all things in Creation, my own Law that disconnects me from all things in Creation is Taikyoku.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967326155407390/image0.png
This Law is called a Colour, it's decision is a man's thought. What oneself longs for, what oneself would want to become. Such prayers and desires, called Cravings, become the driving force behind the genesis of Taikyoku.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967361152417792/image0.png
Here, we learn that things such as "physics" are merely assorted natural laws. Taikyoku is something else, its scale is simply much greater. If a law among those were to become Taikyoku, all of creation, which is referred to as water, would change to comply with it.
But how big is this "underwater area"? What is the most impressive size that it has shown or implied to encompass? ― I mean, none of these scans displays an infinitely-layered hierarchy or anything remotely close to that, does it? Well let's see.
Masadaverse's most impressive cosmology size was during Mercurius' reign, in which the space surrounding the throne was repeatedly referred to as something so bizarre it was described as "Hyperdimensional".
That place is none other than the Taikyoku Throne. The Nucleus of the Universe, the Center where all phenomena emanated from the existing Law.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616965811864862720/image0.png
Of course that is not the place where one can reach by walking and flying. It is some sort of Hyperdimensional Space, an extreme point that cannot be described by any language.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616965811864862721/image1.png
Along with the claims of the throne being Hyperdimensional ( in this context referring to Beyond-dimensional ) we have also seen Yakou Madara displaying his ability to dislocate existing dimensions ― reaching up to 24D ― during his fight with Tenma Ootake.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/660873729290534935/660873988138074122/image0.jpg
In addition to that, dimensional manipulation falls under natural phenomena control ― which all originated from Taikyoku itself. So we know that the concept of dimensions (which has shown to reach at least 24), physics, life and death are all under/originated from Taikyoku and that Taikyoku also exists completely outside of it.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616989588853882880/kawncept2.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616989456792027147/kawncept1.jpg
What's next to know is how these "dimensions" work:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987250823004166/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987295958040659/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987317751775263/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987344838459417/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987371098865676/latest.png
Basically, the narrator states that attacks from lower dimension ― no matter how potent ― will not be able to affect the higher one in any manner. Akin to how Soujirou's slash did literally nothing to Tenma Akuro (Of course, the scale is different since this is no mere higher dimensional being he's fighting with, but something else). Furthermore, it was even pointed out that Akuro wasn't "tanky" or "robust", he was simply disconnected from Soujirou, along with the entire world. And thus, I believe it is apt to assume that the dimensions in Masadaverse are indeed higher infinities.
Interestingly, the difference between Soujirou and Akuro was actually called "Phase Difference" which, despite being visibly the same, is a gap much greater in scale compared to Dimensional Difference. This could also be simplified as "Taikyoku vs Non-Taikyoku difference"
So what of it? Why does having 24 higher dimensions grant a verse 1-A rating?
To conclude: That's because their laws being "unlimited expansion/overwrite" applies to simply any-D structures. Taikyoku is a force that allows users to paint over all there is or at least exist above and manipulate all existence, it doesn't matter how many "layers" are piled up. This is essentially showcased by Soujirou's attempt to slash Akuro and Yakou's attempt to block Ootake's attack. Taikyoku is something else.
Heck, it was even stated that no matter how the picture extends itself in potency, it can never harm reality ― this picture includes both 24D barriers and physical slashes, they bear no difference to Taikyoku at all. Another thing to note is that, when new universes are created, they are immediately brought into the Throne's jurisdiction.
Therefore the Throne, Gods, Taikyoku shall stay 1-A. That is, not including the possible upgrades below.
Part 2: Possible Upgrades
From what we have seen so far (barring the fact that all mentions of Throne prior to Pantheon were most likely referring to the outer layer/lesser manifestation of the actual thing ― which we have no idea how potent it truly is) here should be how Shinza Bansho universe is structured: In the grand canvas that is the world or All Of Creation, the first and least complex of them all should be the Multiverse along with infinite number of concepts that come with it.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616984663654662185/unknown.png
Beneath it lies a white slate composed entirely of "colorless" Taikyoku - only accessible by drilling a hole in reality via Taiji - generally referred to as the Singularity, of which features are similar to that of a primordial realm devoid of "colors" ― embodying the idea that mortals define as "void" and stated to be a place that, by the command of the Throne God, concepts of the new world spawn from.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617300295084539914/image0.jpg
Then there comes the most prominent of them all, The Throne ( do note that this thread won't be using anything beyond the "outer layer" that was being referred to throughout the series ) which governs all above, keeping them and the spiritual pressure of the gods ― which would utterly annihilate All Of Creation ― in check.
µ│óµù¼Òü«Þë▓Òü½µƒôÒü¥ÒüúÒüƒÕñ®Òü»ÒÇüþÑ×Òü«ÚçìÒü┐Òü½ÞÇÉÒüêÒéëÒéîÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéÞÂàÞÂèÞÇàÒüîÞà░µÄøÒüæÒéïÒü╣ÒüÅÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéï『Õ║º』Òü¿Õæ╝ÒüÂÒü╣ÒüìÒééÒü«ÒüîÕ┐àÞªüÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇéThe Heaven that dyed in the color of Hajun, it cannot endure the weight of God. The thing that needed to exist so that those of transcendence can sit on it, the『Throne』.
And
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616965392077946908/image0.png <- same scan as the previous section, in case you're too lazy to scroll back.
The proposals for upgrades will center around the relationship between these three main structures, particularly the Singularity.
This can be seen as a direct continuation from my old blog that was made into a thread and implemented.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...xplanation_Redux:_Singularity_and_Taiji_value
Shortened, accepted, implemented version:
"Next is the Singularity, the singularity is a tear in reality to the Throne where the godhead resides. Usually generated by a clash of Hadou Atziluth-Tai between the Throne and the lowest floor (Multiverse). Basically singularities are created from the collision between the "Color" or Law of Hadou Gods, the world is "unaffected" by the Law of the Hadou where God does not exist and is not affected by the Law as they block the flow of Law and became the Singularity rather than be influenced by the Supreme Law (Atziluth-Tai). In order to reach the throne, the challenger may opt to drill through the depths of the Singularity using their law.
The depth of the Singularity varies in accordance with the ruling deity's law strength (Taikyoku/Taiji). As such, Singularities generated by a God with "higher" quality would be immeasurably "deeper" than those of lower quality, and therefore will not be "drilled" or "crossed" without adequate strength - there are few exceptions to this rule, however.
Additionally, the Singularity is described as an infinite abyss of colorless Taikyoku/Taiji that can be comprehended and interacted only by deities. It is a "place" that gives birth natural laws and new ideas/concepts, and where the afterimages or shades of Gods from the past, who must be overcome and thoroughly understood in order to reach the throne, reside.
Despite being referred to as "place", It is utterly impossible to define the Singularity due to its abstract nature: the laws of physics simply do not exist in the Singularity, and all of creation are mixed there, side by side - be it past, present or future. Thus, the process of "drilling" can be compared to "falling" to nowhere.
Lastly, It should also be noted that despite being naturally unaffected by the laws of the Gods, the Singularity is still under the possession of the Throne God."
According to the past revision, It was already pointed out how the Singularity ( realm of colorless Taikyoku ) effectively functions like an archetypal realm ― allowing only those with Taikyoku to access (Colorless) or reign over (Colored), how it is detached from the rest of creation, sharing the trait of transcendence over the Multiverse with Taikyoku, and how each Singularity generated from each Throne God differs drastically in size. Though, there is still something missing, and that is how it relates to the Gods.
As we know, the overall size of the Singularity varies greatly depending on the strength of the Throne God, resembling that of the difference between individual gods strength ― which are comparable to "layers" - themselves. At first glance, it would seem that the Singularity size is equal to the actual power of the Throne God. However, upon re-checking some scenes, it seems that this is not the case. While the former is most likely true, the latter is greatly contested by the feats and showings in both K3 and Dies Irae ― as they make it clear that the Singularity enters the Throne purview, and is inferior to the Gods ― no matter how much expansion done to it.
Here are some more scans regarding the Singularity ― which I excluded in the past revision.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617196368091545605/image0.png
"The Taikyoku of Hadou is, for instance, closely resembling to the act of drawing a picture. You have the Color of your own Law, that is the condition to raise the drawing on the Canvas that is the World."
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617196649730801665/image0.png
"Therefore naturally, many concepts that accompany with a picture can be applied. Then for example, under the pressure of the brush on the place where you had recoating it many times over, a hole will appear on the canvas."
These scans explain that If the Gods are painters drawing their "pictures", an undefinable hole that appears after excessive painting would be a hole and beneath it (this include the hole itself) lies The Singularity. And while it can be used as an interstate portal for the contender to challenge the Throne, the Singularity itself bears no power before the Gods.
Being a white slate under the Throne's purview (however, outside the multiverse), statements regarding overall structure of the canvas/All Of Creation will also apply to it. ( In fact, the space surrounding the Throne being described as "Hyperdimensional" should also apply to it. Though, it matters not. )
As such, these statements will also affect the Singularity.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987295958040659/latest.png
(In a nutshell) During this scene the narrator explicitly states that everything in the canvas bear absolutely no difference to the Gods. Going as far as saying that "no matter how potent something is portrayed in the picture, it can never affect reality" -
If you read the entire thread, you'd notice that I already brought up this scan in the section above.
Here, the Singularity is also described to be the "center of creation" and the act of overwriting it/flooding it with your Taiji is not any different than drawing on a blank canvas.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610292156057255977/636821964811403267/image0.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616957975654957099/Singu4.jpg
And what does it mean, what are these statements for, exactly?
1. This means that, as a part of All Of Creation, Yakou's statement also applies to it.
Particularly this one:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967273264971787/image0.png
Since I don't feel like copying the entire text wall from above, I'll just explain the context. Basically, "If the aforementioned law were to change into Taikyoku" ― then, along with the rest of creation, the Singularity will also change to comply with it. I believe this to be the case during the transition of the Throne Gods.
Additionally, we also have these scans:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/625236566327033856/image0.png <- From the anime that even the die-hard fans refused to acknowledge its existence. Yes, I'm using a "scan" from the anime. As long as it's understandable and actually contribute to the revision. ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/625231809612873749/image0.png - This one actually traces back to the brief overview of the Singularity scan, it basically tells us that anyone with Taiji can rule over the Singularity as long as there is no color already occupying it.
2. The second scan makes it even more obvious that the action of overtaking the Singularity is not any different than, say, painting over the multiverse. This, combined with many scans above, clearly displays that the Gods transcend the Singularity as much as they transcend the rest of the cosmology.
Besides instances above, there are also feats/statements of the Throne's destruction that are quite noteworthy.
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Manipulation of slashes and its targets through change and convergence. Those who were struck by Soujirou possesses the fact "that the sword called Mibu Soujirou cut them". Through this, he can activate the attack again and kill anyone without lifting a finger. Moreover while he can't change the absolute truth that "he cut something", he is capable of changing "what was cut". This allows him to knit the strongest slash by gathering all cuts he mades as a human and realize it, creating an attack that's strong enough to cut the Throne itself
The quote speaks for itself. Soujirou, a member of the Eastern Expedition, could have absolutely destroyed the Throne had it not been Hajun who was sitting there. And here is the aftermath of fight between Reinhard and Mercurius.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme.../665253204061061123/Destruction_of_throne.png
At this point, it is rather obvious what I'm getting at ― I personally believe that the Gods' potency are greater than what is on their profiles.
Miscellaneous
Fuji Re ( as well as few others ) 1-A "Time" Manipulation.
To be frank, this thread [1] inspired me to make an extra section. It came off rather funny at first, but turned into something else entirely.
Currently, this is the description of his Atziluth.
Res Novae - Also Sprach Zarathustra: The manifestation of Tenma Yato's Law from when he was Ren Fuji, "I want to enjoy this moment forever". After activation, time, in all levels of existence, are completely frozen, even in areas where time in all its forms does not exist. Through an extension known as "Time Armor", Yato is also capable of completely negating change, making all damage done to him effectively null unless the opponent's power outright exceeds his own. The Time Armor even allowed him to halt Hajun's Law from being completed for over 8,000 years, only stopping because of his own death (Albeit Hajun was significantly weakened due to having absorbed a vast quantity of souls and was not paying any mere attention to his existence)
While I personally don't have any problem with it, some people tend to get confused and, in some cases, go as far as calling it BS.
Therefore, I propose that we add an extra note on his profile ―
Note: The true effects of his Atziluth is enforcing his own concept of "eternal stagnation" or "eternal standstill" on everything in his domain, preventing any change from occurring. While it has been described as stopping time, that is simply due to the laws resemblance to it and thus should not be treated as just stopping time.
Here's…. the scan. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616955552878166017/Singu2.jpg
Omniscience & Omnipresence
Few months ago I've seen someone asking for a source. While I'm certain that atwiki has it, here are some of the scans.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617195315996655646/image0.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617195315996655648/image1.png
Here, It is apparent that Tenma Yato was fully aware of the movements of the Eastern Expedition as though they were inside his body. This is due to the nature of Gods and their territories.
To drive the point home
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This quote tells us how the universe (in this case, referring to the Mandala) is effectively the God's body. That's why they are Omniscient and Omnipresent within their territories.
Summary & Proposals
Part 1
To simplify
• The lowest level of the cosmology "Multiverse" is a multidimensional structure that varies in size depending on the ruling deity.
• The dimensions present in the Multiverse works the same way as higher infinities do.
• Taikyoku ( and by extension, the Gods and the Singularity ) utterly transcends the Multiverse in a manner that no matter how many qualitative dimensions are added, Taikyoku will always exist beyond and encompass it entirely.
For the first part of the revision, I propose that the descriptions and evidence here be provided on the explanation ― rewritten in a more coherent manner ― or at least add the link of this revision at the end of Taikyoku section.
Any suggestion will be very much appreciated.
Part 2
Continuing where I left off in the possible upgrade section ―
To sum it up: The Singularity transcends all existence in the multiverse and will always be bigger than (and inaccessible to) any expansions done to it - existing as a "blank canvas" that the Gods use to create new concepts that will spring life in the new world - and come with different sizes, with each being much greater to the last that it is comparable to "layers". However, it is still a part of the overall system encompassed by the Gods, and thus, they will always be beyond its scope, much like they do the rest of existence/creation. In my lowly humble opinion, I believe that this should warrant High 1-A ratings for all the Atziluth Gods.
Miscellaneous
For Fuji Ren, simply adding the note should do the job.
For Omniscience and Omnipresence, I suggest that their justifications be added to the Taikyoku section in a preferable manner.
Extra
This part will serve to answer a few questions that are clearly going to be thrown around. Just so that we wouldn't waste time arguing over something unrelated to the thread.
Haju ― what about Hajun?
He wants to be left alone. So I just leave him alone.
No, seriously, assuming that the revision is implemented, Hajun gets the same rating with the rest of the Gods. If you wish to argue for him, then you can do that in a separate thread. Personally, I think that Hajun's rating is rather controversial and would require a discussion thread of its own. I'm most likely not going to make a thread for it. Having Hajun at the same tier as the rest of the Gods seem to be the most reasonable consensus - at least with the amount of information we have on him, for now.
Though, there is one more thing regarding our beloved omnicidal Indian that has to be addressed ― I've seen a lot of people claiming that If Hajun were actually so much more powerful than Yato, then how did the latter survive for more than 8000 years? Well here's the thing, as a God, there's a thin line between actively unleashing your full power and standing still, doing nothing but wiping out souls/dust. Claiming that Yato could truly "hold his own" (lol) against Hajun is similar to claiming that Wilhelm being on the same tier as Mercurius ― just because he could "hold off" the latter's outflow in his Briah. Furthermore, Yato was stated multiple times to have literally the best defense in the entire Pantheon of Masadaverse Gods. <- Unless you're into that "Best Defense is Offense stuff" c:
Ba ― when will the ban be lifted?
Soon. After this revision is settled, there will be a few more upcoming CRTs ( Worry not, they are most likely not as long as this one ). Once those are finished, we will lift the ban.
And with that, we wrapped up "Masadaverse Explanation Page Revision 2"! Thanks for playing!
Votes:
Agree: SleepyTBubble (ALRF), Nepuko, Tony di bugalu, Qliphoth Bacikal, PsychoWarper, Paul Frank, Warren Valio, Ultima Reality, Celestial Pegasus, Ovy7, Elizhaa, Ionliosite, Redgrave, Ricsi-viragosi, I'm blue, Zaratthustra, Schnee One, Tyri456, EmperorRorepme, SchroKatze, Maxnumb231, PairusDragonoid, -BANLK-, Rocker1189, Oblivion Of The Endless, Lavtop, Veloxt1r0kore, LSirLancelotDuLacl, EMS-TC02_Phantom, Archaro, Sera EX, Sage Exterminatio
Disagree:
Neutral: The real cal howard, DarkLK, Antvasima, Andytrenom, Promestei, DarkDragonMedeus
Introductio
As the new system has been implemented, I suppose that it's high time we wrapped this up, once and for all. You might as well consider this thread another addition of my little Masadaverse revision that was deployed several months ago, with similar purpose of improving the page (adds link) underlying the legitimacy of Masadaverse current 1-A ratings. Some other possible changes for the cosmology will also be proposed here, as the verse requires far more discussing than what it usually gets.
Whether the changes should be implemented or not should be discussed in this thread, obviously.
NOTE: I'd like to give some credits ( actually a lot, but they claimed that they didn't help much.
) SleepyTBubble, Dysmity and few other Masadanerds for helping out with getting the scans and the making of this thread. I'm truly thankful, and very sorry for disappearing and being unavailable for so long. Part 1: 1-A Justifications
Should be rather obvious what I'm getting at ― the 1-A/Taikyoku/Atziluth/Whateveryouwanttocallit section provides less evidence than what it should have, a lot less, if I may say so ― this is essentially proven by the number of threads asking for proof in the past. This revision will, hopefully, reaffirm its legitimacy.
As per the new system: In order for a character to be 1-A, they should display superiority over infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, or are at least stated to be superior to such structures hierarchies, even if such things don't exist in their franchise.
I believe that the latter should be apt for Masadaverse, and here are the reasons and scans.
Taikyoku is explicitly stated to be the root of all things, and is essentially the origin of all phenomena and concepts in the universe.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616966401344667678/image0.png
Taikyoku--Origin of all things in Onmyoudou (Way of Yin and Yang), concept pointing to the nucleus of the universe.
This is referred to Yin-Yang or Duality, as Taikyoku is sourec of everything.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616966401969881138/image1.png
To draw power and grasp the knowledge of everything, the source of all phenomena and the origin of all things. To see all and do all. - This includes the infinite concepts constituding the multiverse.
That wouldn't be enough, of course. Fortunately, we more scans regarding the matter.
Here is Yakou talking about the nature of Taikyoku.
Of course, in this World, a near infinite number of Laws exist, it doesn't mean that each one of those can be called Taikyoku
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967148593479701/image0.png
In reality, cutlery carries a Law called "cutting", fire has a Law called "burning". In the case of the Law that exists while underwater, something like pulmonary respiration cannot happen. Such assorted Laws are mere physics.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967172887019530/image0.png
What's important is scale, density. The denomination of the form the Law takes is, by standard, "universe", therefore, getting to become an independent World is Takyoku's definition.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967208559575052/image0.png
It's not difficult talk at all. If the aforementioned Law that exists underwater were to change into Taikyoku, All of Creation's underwater areas would also be changed to comply.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967273264971787/image0.png
My own Law which lets me gain total control of all things in Creation, my own Law that disconnects me from all things in Creation is Taikyoku.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967326155407390/image0.png
This Law is called a Colour, it's decision is a man's thought. What oneself longs for, what oneself would want to become. Such prayers and desires, called Cravings, become the driving force behind the genesis of Taikyoku.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967361152417792/image0.png
Here, we learn that things such as "physics" are merely assorted natural laws. Taikyoku is something else, its scale is simply much greater. If a law among those were to become Taikyoku, all of creation, which is referred to as water, would change to comply with it.
But how big is this "underwater area"? What is the most impressive size that it has shown or implied to encompass? ― I mean, none of these scans displays an infinitely-layered hierarchy or anything remotely close to that, does it? Well let's see.
Masadaverse's most impressive cosmology size was during Mercurius' reign, in which the space surrounding the throne was repeatedly referred to as something so bizarre it was described as "Hyperdimensional".
That place is none other than the Taikyoku Throne. The Nucleus of the Universe, the Center where all phenomena emanated from the existing Law.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616965811864862720/image0.png
Of course that is not the place where one can reach by walking and flying. It is some sort of Hyperdimensional Space, an extreme point that cannot be described by any language.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616965811864862721/image1.png
Along with the claims of the throne being Hyperdimensional ( in this context referring to Beyond-dimensional ) we have also seen Yakou Madara displaying his ability to dislocate existing dimensions ― reaching up to 24D ― during his fight with Tenma Ootake.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/660873729290534935/660873988138074122/image0.jpg
In addition to that, dimensional manipulation falls under natural phenomena control ― which all originated from Taikyoku itself. So we know that the concept of dimensions (which has shown to reach at least 24), physics, life and death are all under/originated from Taikyoku and that Taikyoku also exists completely outside of it.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616989588853882880/kawncept2.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616989456792027147/kawncept1.jpg
What's next to know is how these "dimensions" work:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987250823004166/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987295958040659/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987317751775263/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987344838459417/latest.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987371098865676/latest.png
Basically, the narrator states that attacks from lower dimension ― no matter how potent ― will not be able to affect the higher one in any manner. Akin to how Soujirou's slash did literally nothing to Tenma Akuro (Of course, the scale is different since this is no mere higher dimensional being he's fighting with, but something else). Furthermore, it was even pointed out that Akuro wasn't "tanky" or "robust", he was simply disconnected from Soujirou, along with the entire world. And thus, I believe it is apt to assume that the dimensions in Masadaverse are indeed higher infinities.
Interestingly, the difference between Soujirou and Akuro was actually called "Phase Difference" which, despite being visibly the same, is a gap much greater in scale compared to Dimensional Difference. This could also be simplified as "Taikyoku vs Non-Taikyoku difference"
So what of it? Why does having 24 higher dimensions grant a verse 1-A rating?
To conclude: That's because their laws being "unlimited expansion/overwrite" applies to simply any-D structures. Taikyoku is a force that allows users to paint over all there is or at least exist above and manipulate all existence, it doesn't matter how many "layers" are piled up. This is essentially showcased by Soujirou's attempt to slash Akuro and Yakou's attempt to block Ootake's attack. Taikyoku is something else.
Heck, it was even stated that no matter how the picture extends itself in potency, it can never harm reality ― this picture includes both 24D barriers and physical slashes, they bear no difference to Taikyoku at all. Another thing to note is that, when new universes are created, they are immediately brought into the Throne's jurisdiction.
Therefore the Throne, Gods, Taikyoku shall stay 1-A. That is, not including the possible upgrades below.
Part 2: Possible Upgrades
From what we have seen so far (barring the fact that all mentions of Throne prior to Pantheon were most likely referring to the outer layer/lesser manifestation of the actual thing ― which we have no idea how potent it truly is) here should be how Shinza Bansho universe is structured: In the grand canvas that is the world or All Of Creation, the first and least complex of them all should be the Multiverse along with infinite number of concepts that come with it.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616984663654662185/unknown.png
Beneath it lies a white slate composed entirely of "colorless" Taikyoku - only accessible by drilling a hole in reality via Taiji - generally referred to as the Singularity, of which features are similar to that of a primordial realm devoid of "colors" ― embodying the idea that mortals define as "void" and stated to be a place that, by the command of the Throne God, concepts of the new world spawn from.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617300295084539914/image0.jpg
Then there comes the most prominent of them all, The Throne ( do note that this thread won't be using anything beyond the "outer layer" that was being referred to throughout the series ) which governs all above, keeping them and the spiritual pressure of the gods ― which would utterly annihilate All Of Creation ― in check.
µ│óµù¼Òü«Þë▓Òü½µƒôÒü¥ÒüúÒüƒÕñ®Òü»ÒÇüþÑ×Òü«ÚçìÒü┐Òü½ÞÇÉÒüêÒéëÒéîÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéÞÂàÞÂèÞÇàÒüîÞà░µÄøÒüæÒéïÒü╣ÒüÅÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéï『Õ║º』Òü¿Õæ╝ÒüÂÒü╣ÒüìÒééÒü«ÒüîÕ┐àÞªüÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇéThe Heaven that dyed in the color of Hajun, it cannot endure the weight of God. The thing that needed to exist so that those of transcendence can sit on it, the『Throne』.
And
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616965392077946908/image0.png <- same scan as the previous section, in case you're too lazy to scroll back.
The proposals for upgrades will center around the relationship between these three main structures, particularly the Singularity.
This can be seen as a direct continuation from my old blog that was made into a thread and implemented.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...xplanation_Redux:_Singularity_and_Taiji_value
Shortened, accepted, implemented version:
"Next is the Singularity, the singularity is a tear in reality to the Throne where the godhead resides. Usually generated by a clash of Hadou Atziluth-Tai between the Throne and the lowest floor (Multiverse). Basically singularities are created from the collision between the "Color" or Law of Hadou Gods, the world is "unaffected" by the Law of the Hadou where God does not exist and is not affected by the Law as they block the flow of Law and became the Singularity rather than be influenced by the Supreme Law (Atziluth-Tai). In order to reach the throne, the challenger may opt to drill through the depths of the Singularity using their law.
The depth of the Singularity varies in accordance with the ruling deity's law strength (Taikyoku/Taiji). As such, Singularities generated by a God with "higher" quality would be immeasurably "deeper" than those of lower quality, and therefore will not be "drilled" or "crossed" without adequate strength - there are few exceptions to this rule, however.
Additionally, the Singularity is described as an infinite abyss of colorless Taikyoku/Taiji that can be comprehended and interacted only by deities. It is a "place" that gives birth natural laws and new ideas/concepts, and where the afterimages or shades of Gods from the past, who must be overcome and thoroughly understood in order to reach the throne, reside.
Despite being referred to as "place", It is utterly impossible to define the Singularity due to its abstract nature: the laws of physics simply do not exist in the Singularity, and all of creation are mixed there, side by side - be it past, present or future. Thus, the process of "drilling" can be compared to "falling" to nowhere.
Lastly, It should also be noted that despite being naturally unaffected by the laws of the Gods, the Singularity is still under the possession of the Throne God."
According to the past revision, It was already pointed out how the Singularity ( realm of colorless Taikyoku ) effectively functions like an archetypal realm ― allowing only those with Taikyoku to access (Colorless) or reign over (Colored), how it is detached from the rest of creation, sharing the trait of transcendence over the Multiverse with Taikyoku, and how each Singularity generated from each Throne God differs drastically in size. Though, there is still something missing, and that is how it relates to the Gods.
As we know, the overall size of the Singularity varies greatly depending on the strength of the Throne God, resembling that of the difference between individual gods strength ― which are comparable to "layers" - themselves. At first glance, it would seem that the Singularity size is equal to the actual power of the Throne God. However, upon re-checking some scenes, it seems that this is not the case. While the former is most likely true, the latter is greatly contested by the feats and showings in both K3 and Dies Irae ― as they make it clear that the Singularity enters the Throne purview, and is inferior to the Gods ― no matter how much expansion done to it.
Here are some more scans regarding the Singularity ― which I excluded in the past revision.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617196368091545605/image0.png
"The Taikyoku of Hadou is, for instance, closely resembling to the act of drawing a picture. You have the Color of your own Law, that is the condition to raise the drawing on the Canvas that is the World."
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617196649730801665/image0.png
"Therefore naturally, many concepts that accompany with a picture can be applied. Then for example, under the pressure of the brush on the place where you had recoating it many times over, a hole will appear on the canvas."
These scans explain that If the Gods are painters drawing their "pictures", an undefinable hole that appears after excessive painting would be a hole and beneath it (this include the hole itself) lies The Singularity. And while it can be used as an interstate portal for the contender to challenge the Throne, the Singularity itself bears no power before the Gods.
Being a white slate under the Throne's purview (however, outside the multiverse), statements regarding overall structure of the canvas/All Of Creation will also apply to it. ( In fact, the space surrounding the Throne being described as "Hyperdimensional" should also apply to it. Though, it matters not. )
As such, these statements will also affect the Singularity.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616987295958040659/latest.png
(In a nutshell) During this scene the narrator explicitly states that everything in the canvas bear absolutely no difference to the Gods. Going as far as saying that "no matter how potent something is portrayed in the picture, it can never affect reality" -
If you read the entire thread, you'd notice that I already brought up this scan in the section above.
Here, the Singularity is also described to be the "center of creation" and the act of overwriting it/flooding it with your Taiji is not any different than drawing on a blank canvas.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610292156057255977/636821964811403267/image0.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616957975654957099/Singu4.jpg
And what does it mean, what are these statements for, exactly?
1. This means that, as a part of All Of Creation, Yakou's statement also applies to it.
Particularly this one:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616967273264971787/image0.png
Since I don't feel like copying the entire text wall from above, I'll just explain the context. Basically, "If the aforementioned law were to change into Taikyoku" ― then, along with the rest of creation, the Singularity will also change to comply with it. I believe this to be the case during the transition of the Throne Gods.
Additionally, we also have these scans:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/625236566327033856/image0.png <- From the anime that even the die-hard fans refused to acknowledge its existence. Yes, I'm using a "scan" from the anime. As long as it's understandable and actually contribute to the revision. ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/625231809612873749/image0.png - This one actually traces back to the brief overview of the Singularity scan, it basically tells us that anyone with Taiji can rule over the Singularity as long as there is no color already occupying it.
2. The second scan makes it even more obvious that the action of overtaking the Singularity is not any different than, say, painting over the multiverse. This, combined with many scans above, clearly displays that the Gods transcend the Singularity as much as they transcend the rest of the cosmology.
Besides instances above, there are also feats/statements of the Throne's destruction that are quite noteworthy.
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Manipulation of slashes and its targets through change and convergence. Those who were struck by Soujirou possesses the fact "that the sword called Mibu Soujirou cut them". Through this, he can activate the attack again and kill anyone without lifting a finger. Moreover while he can't change the absolute truth that "he cut something", he is capable of changing "what was cut". This allows him to knit the strongest slash by gathering all cuts he mades as a human and realize it, creating an attack that's strong enough to cut the Throne itself
The quote speaks for itself. Soujirou, a member of the Eastern Expedition, could have absolutely destroyed the Throne had it not been Hajun who was sitting there. And here is the aftermath of fight between Reinhard and Mercurius.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme.../665253204061061123/Destruction_of_throne.png
At this point, it is rather obvious what I'm getting at ― I personally believe that the Gods' potency are greater than what is on their profiles.
Miscellaneous
Fuji Re ( as well as few others ) 1-A "Time" Manipulation.
To be frank, this thread [1] inspired me to make an extra section. It came off rather funny at first, but turned into something else entirely.
Currently, this is the description of his Atziluth.
Res Novae - Also Sprach Zarathustra: The manifestation of Tenma Yato's Law from when he was Ren Fuji, "I want to enjoy this moment forever". After activation, time, in all levels of existence, are completely frozen, even in areas where time in all its forms does not exist. Through an extension known as "Time Armor", Yato is also capable of completely negating change, making all damage done to him effectively null unless the opponent's power outright exceeds his own. The Time Armor even allowed him to halt Hajun's Law from being completed for over 8,000 years, only stopping because of his own death (Albeit Hajun was significantly weakened due to having absorbed a vast quantity of souls and was not paying any mere attention to his existence)
While I personally don't have any problem with it, some people tend to get confused and, in some cases, go as far as calling it BS.
Therefore, I propose that we add an extra note on his profile ―
Note: The true effects of his Atziluth is enforcing his own concept of "eternal stagnation" or "eternal standstill" on everything in his domain, preventing any change from occurring. While it has been described as stopping time, that is simply due to the laws resemblance to it and thus should not be treated as just stopping time.
Here's…. the scan. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/616955552878166017/Singu2.jpg
Omniscience & Omnipresence
Few months ago I've seen someone asking for a source. While I'm certain that atwiki has it, here are some of the scans.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617195315996655646/image0.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615909199544713380/617195315996655648/image1.png
Here, It is apparent that Tenma Yato was fully aware of the movements of the Eastern Expedition as though they were inside his body. This is due to the nature of Gods and their territories.
To drive the point home
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This quote tells us how the universe (in this case, referring to the Mandala) is effectively the God's body. That's why they are Omniscient and Omnipresent within their territories.
Summary & Proposals
Part 1
To simplify
• The lowest level of the cosmology "Multiverse" is a multidimensional structure that varies in size depending on the ruling deity.
• The dimensions present in the Multiverse works the same way as higher infinities do.
• Taikyoku ( and by extension, the Gods and the Singularity ) utterly transcends the Multiverse in a manner that no matter how many qualitative dimensions are added, Taikyoku will always exist beyond and encompass it entirely.
For the first part of the revision, I propose that the descriptions and evidence here be provided on the explanation ― rewritten in a more coherent manner ― or at least add the link of this revision at the end of Taikyoku section.
Any suggestion will be very much appreciated.
Part 2
Continuing where I left off in the possible upgrade section ―
To sum it up: The Singularity transcends all existence in the multiverse and will always be bigger than (and inaccessible to) any expansions done to it - existing as a "blank canvas" that the Gods use to create new concepts that will spring life in the new world - and come with different sizes, with each being much greater to the last that it is comparable to "layers". However, it is still a part of the overall system encompassed by the Gods, and thus, they will always be beyond its scope, much like they do the rest of existence/creation. In my lowly humble opinion, I believe that this should warrant High 1-A ratings for all the Atziluth Gods.
Miscellaneous
For Fuji Ren, simply adding the note should do the job.
For Omniscience and Omnipresence, I suggest that their justifications be added to the Taikyoku section in a preferable manner.
Extra
This part will serve to answer a few questions that are clearly going to be thrown around. Just so that we wouldn't waste time arguing over something unrelated to the thread.
Haju ― what about Hajun?
He wants to be left alone. So I just leave him alone.
No, seriously, assuming that the revision is implemented, Hajun gets the same rating with the rest of the Gods. If you wish to argue for him, then you can do that in a separate thread. Personally, I think that Hajun's rating is rather controversial and would require a discussion thread of its own. I'm most likely not going to make a thread for it. Having Hajun at the same tier as the rest of the Gods seem to be the most reasonable consensus - at least with the amount of information we have on him, for now.
Though, there is one more thing regarding our beloved omnicidal Indian that has to be addressed ― I've seen a lot of people claiming that If Hajun were actually so much more powerful than Yato, then how did the latter survive for more than 8000 years? Well here's the thing, as a God, there's a thin line between actively unleashing your full power and standing still, doing nothing but wiping out souls/dust. Claiming that Yato could truly "hold his own" (lol) against Hajun is similar to claiming that Wilhelm being on the same tier as Mercurius ― just because he could "hold off" the latter's outflow in his Briah. Furthermore, Yato was stated multiple times to have literally the best defense in the entire Pantheon of Masadaverse Gods. <- Unless you're into that "Best Defense is Offense stuff" c:
Ba ― when will the ban be lifted?
Soon. After this revision is settled, there will be a few more upcoming CRTs ( Worry not, they are most likely not as long as this one ). Once those are finished, we will lift the ban.
And with that, we wrapped up "Masadaverse Explanation Page Revision 2"! Thanks for playing!
Votes:
Agree: SleepyTBubble (ALRF), Nepuko, Tony di bugalu, Qliphoth Bacikal, PsychoWarper, Paul Frank, Warren Valio, Ultima Reality, Celestial Pegasus, Ovy7, Elizhaa, Ionliosite, Redgrave, Ricsi-viragosi, I'm blue, Zaratthustra, Schnee One, Tyri456, EmperorRorepme, SchroKatze, Maxnumb231, PairusDragonoid, -BANLK-, Rocker1189, Oblivion Of The Endless, Lavtop, Veloxt1r0kore, LSirLancelotDuLacl, EMS-TC02_Phantom, Archaro, Sera EX, Sage Exterminatio
Disagree:
Neutral: The real cal howard, DarkLK, Antvasima, Andytrenom, Promestei, DarkDragonMedeus
