SHINZA IS BACK!!!!!

[Tarang123]

but isn't the singularity an outright infinite hierarchy and the throne 1-A being confirmed to be inaccessible by it?

That can be discussed later. Right now, the priority isn't getting the verse to 1A, but to get the verse back at all

 

[Tarang123]

Also, I'll just quote part of the blog

As such, the only way of truly accessing it is by opening a Singularity, that is, tearing the canvas of reality asunder, and diving through the newly made hole.

If you clicked on the link, it, for some reason, directs you to Darkseid's page. I think that needs to be fixed.

 

[Tarang123]

For the singularity we can use what is implied during the routes and then stated directly, beri'ah actually dwarfs creation no matter how many laws are added, layers of laws are stacked and so on, this is shown with every recurrence of mercurius and is directly stated to ignore the laws of creation everytime it is activated, this is the same thing that is stated in k3 with distortions which is just beri'ah but under another name, the singularity is then above all beri'ah minus divine ones

First of all, these scans aren't in the blog at all, so it's just baseless claims as of now. Especially witht he layers of laws or whatever. There is zero implication that laws layer on each other or something like that

 

[Tarang123]

Anyway, what are the conclusions here so far, and can somebody write a good explanation post regarding what our staff members need to evaluate here?

Basically, Shinza would become 1A and the old profiles would be brought back with the changes. That seems to be what the conclusions of the blog are

 

[Darksmash]

Basically, Shinza would become 1A and the old profiles would be brought back with the changes. That seems to be what the conclusions of the blog are

He's asking conclusions of the thread, not the "blog"

 

[Reizen23]

First of all, these scans aren't in the blog at all, so it's just baseless claims as of now. Especially witht he layers of laws or whatever. There is zero implication that laws layer on each other or something like that

Cuz I had not time to send them

 

[Tarang123]

He's asking conclusions of the thread, not the "blog"

How is that any different?

 

[Bobsican]

The blog can freely claim anything whatsoever, but what's agreed on in here can easily be very different.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

The blog can freely claim anything whatsoever, but what's agreed on in here can easily be very different.

there is nothing agreed on the thread so far btw. The admins haven't evaluated anything

 

[Vasco]

I keep seeing 1-A but haven't seen the arguments for it.

 

[Tarang123]

The blog can freely claim anything whatsoever, but what's agreed on in here can easily be very different.

Oh, I meant the conclusions of the thread that are being aimed for, not what's actually agreed upon. In that regard, there are no conclusions, It's a shithole without any actual direction

 

[Tarang123]

I keep seeing 1-A but haven't seen the arguments for it.

The blog makes the arguments. You can agree or disagree with that

 

[Darksmash]

So onto the actual topic: Whether the verse should be brought back or not. From what I am seeing here the work done on the verse during the time it wasn't on the wiki is nonexistent and the blog is quite literally just copypasting previous info with very minor differences and some small sections for the newer works. It also seems that the Shinza supporters here didn't have any coordination on this project whatsoever and don't even agree with each other on details about the verse.

So I would disagree with this thread.

 

[Tarang123]

As much as I'd love to have Shinza profiles again, you're bringing up a lot of good points. Staying neutral here

 

[Darksmash]

As much as I'd love to have Shinza profiles again, you're bringing up a lot of good points. Staying neutral here

I think a better attempt can be made later when the fans coordinate and decide upon a consistent interpretation with a good blog instead of having inner disagreements and everything being all over the place. But I am disagreeing for now.

 

[Tarang123]

I think a better attempt can be made later when the fans coordinate and decide upon a consistent interpretation with a good blog instead of having inner disagreements and everything being all over the place. But I am disagreeing for now.

This is a reasonable point, yeah. We had over a year, yet this felt like it was still rushed and disorganized. But, just because I was part of the server and provided some scans to be used, I'll remain neutral for now.

 

[Chasekilleen]

Could you please refrain from mentioning me in any context related to the Shinza Banshou series and its battle-boarding discussions? I would like to completely disassociate myself from these topics. And I honestly did not want to bring this up but I find it a tad rude and currently irritated that I was mentioned or even listed as a supporter when I explicitly said twice in private chats that I do not want to be included in any Shinza Banshou threads. Seriously, I am honestly not happy that I wasn't informed of prior to this thread being posted.
Please, stop asking for my opinion from here on out, I'm really not interested in Shinza battle-boarding.

 

[Vasco]

The blog makes the arguments. You can agree or disagree with that

Really? Then I didn't see anything that qualifies.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can you guys stop with the needless derailing, the blog was put together hastily to explain the cosmology as per DT request, the tiers they would qualify for based on the blog was also added as per his request.
Some keep saying there are lots of misinformation in the thread and when asked to point one out, you pointed out a kanji mistake, another was just being dishonest.
Again, if you have something in the blog that is not true bring actual arguments or stay your peace, it is not wrong cause you say it is wrong, if you feel like any information in the blog was flasified, bring it out also, stop clogging up the thread.
@Chasekilleen I did not mention you as a battle boarder or supporter of the verse, but rather someone who helped with the TL
@Tarang123 you can just edit your previous post, stop multi-posting.
@Tarang123 and @Darksmash what do you mean it is the same information as the previous shinza? I do not understand, did we write another shinza? or why are shocked that I am using the same scans and statements that may have been used before? Am I supposed to write another shinza or write a blog while making sure I did not mentiion something that has ben used before shinza was deleted? I am honestly still trying to wrap my heads around it, it is the same shinza so yes you are bound to see some things you have seen before, just this time I at least explained and not using things out of context or using mistranslations - Like justify your claims that says it is almost as the same as the previous upgrade reason, firstly half of what is in the blog, like the explanation and stuffs has never being used in any blog also not to details like that with all the scans.
Also for those asking for the reasons for 1-A: here it is:
1-A is not hard, if your verse does not have infinite dimensions, you just have to prove you are above the dimensions even if your verse has just a regular 4-D universe. We know for a fact that Dimensions in the verse hold ontological difference, as shown in PL and explicity stated in k3, And in the blog you will see in the first era, we have a single regular universe, then we have a universe consisted of 12 Dimensions, then in the next one we know little about, but the one after that the fourth era, we have a regular universe although they are infinite in number compared to the last one. And also there are tons of scans that says the Gods, throne, taikyoku and singularity is above creation, and there is one that says "they have control over all of creation while disconnected from it" and many more that says they are the origin of all laws, concepts and phenomenons in the verse.
By default they indeed transcend all laws, phenomenons and concept in the verse, so yes that is enough for 1-A.

Bolding this so people can see it, I will not be bothered to reply to messages that are derailing or irrelevant, if you have some valid contentions bring it up, else let us wait for DT to evaluate the blog

 

[Mugen_no_Setsuna]

Paradise Lost does have more than just 10D. You should check the script.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Paradise Lost does have more than just 10D. You should check the script.

hey I read what you said in the previous pages, I was planning on ignoring it as I cannot be bothered to get into the argument but I will say the leylines are not dimensions. Anyway if you want me to explain it to you I will in the DM and not here

 

[RaveeCPN]

I guess I'm neutral too (I guess the opinion of non-staff is not so important, but I guess it's okay if I mention it anyway)

Because what Darksmash said really makes sense. It's a bit obvious that there is no coordination between the supporters, and I think Chase's words more or less support that. (But I don't think that should be a reason not to add the verse to the wiki, because it's an easily fixable problem)

The Cosmology Blog also seems to be incomplete, but for some reason it seems to focus more on why it should be 1-A than on providing information about cosmology in general. And I don't think it should be like that.

(And I guess I'm not going to comment further so that the thread doesn't get more chaotic)

 

[PrinceofPein]

Because what Darksmash said really makes sense. It's a bit obvious that there is no coordination between the supporters, and I think Chase's words more or less support that. (But I don't think that should be a reason not to add the verse to the wiki, because it's an easily fixable problem)

chase is a TL he does not want anything to do with battleboarding, I think I mentioned that in the OP about him being the translator

The Cosmology Blog also seems to be incomplete, but for some reason it seems to focus more on why it should be 1-A than on providing information about cosmology in general. And I don't think it should be like that.

Actually the cosmology is the throne, the singularity and tiakyoku, the universes themselves has little to go on off.
And let me call you out on dishonesty there, the blog did not even get to versus tiering till the last section and has just like 5 lines on it, so that is obviously wrong what you just said now.
the first 95% of the blog focuses on just what the cosmology is and the last 5% what they would qualify for. In fact the tiering system part was not there until DT said I should add it, so what do you mean the blog just focuses on why they should 1-A?
You guys need to really stop this thing, someone who did not go through the blog may have taken your words for it and clearly you also did not go through it properly

 

[Reizen23]

I think we should do like suigin said just get the verse back and then the tiers will be decided when we will have more coordination, I admit too that I and suigin don't agree on everything so threads in the future will be better(maybe cuz I prefer more to adjust their profiles rather than working on the cosmology stuffs)

 

[Vasco]

1-A is not hard, if your verse does not have infinite dimensions, you just have to prove you are above the dimensions even if your verse has just a regular 4-D universe.

If the evidence is sufficient enough then it's probably fine but I don't see anything that qualifies for 1-A even the FAQ as proven above would change soon according to ultima.

then we have a universe consisted of 12 Dimensions,

If they are proven to be qualitatively superior then it's fine for 1-B.

If i'm being honest here, read the FAQ and tiering system page and I still don't see 1-A from the blog but let's see @DontTalkDT evaluation on it.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Actually the cosmology is the throne, the singularity and tiakyoku, the universes themselves has little to go on off.

I know that, but I thought if we're going to talk about cosmology, it's not a bad thing to talk about multiverses and multiple timelines within universes and things like that. That was just an idea.

And let me call you out on dishonesty there, the blog did not even get to versus tiering till the last section and has just like 5 lines on it, so that is obviously wrong what you just said now

I already said in my comment that the blog is not yet complete, so I don't see why what I said is a dishonesty.

 

[Reizen23]

I mean, the cosmology have also the throne of soul, nonexistential realms and stuffs like that

 

[PrinceofPein]

I know that, but I thought if we're going to talk about cosmology, it's not a bad thing to talk about multiverses and multiple timelines within universes and things like that. That was just an idea.

I already said in my comment that the blog is not yet complete, so I don't see why what I said is a dishonesty.

but for some reason it seems to focus more on why it should be 1-A than on providing information about cosmology in general.

this is false, check the blog again

I mean, the cosmology have also the throne of soul, nonexistential realms and stuffs like that

and that is not relevant right now

 

[Tarang123]

@Tarang123 and @Darksmash what do you mean it is the same information as the previous shinza? I do not understand, did we write another shinza? or why are shocked that I am using the same scans and statements that may have been used before? Am I supposed to write another shinza or write a blog while making sure I did not mentiion something that has ben used before shinza was deleted? I am honestly still trying to wrap my heads around it, it is the same shinza so yes you are bound to see some things you have seen before, just this time I at least explained and not using things out of context or using mistranslations - Like justify your claims that says it is almost as the same as the previous upgrade reason, firstly half of what is in the blog, like the explanation and stuffs has never being used in any blog also not to details like that with all the scans.

What Darksmash means is that they're the same arguments that got the verse to 1A in the past, while not countering any of the stuff from Yuri's downgrade. This was something I specifically said needed to be done before any kind of 1A upgrade.

As well as that, you are copy-pasting text from the Shinza wiki without crediting them.

1-A is not hard, if your verse does not have infinite dimensions, you just have to prove you are above the dimensions even if your verse has just a regular 4-D universe. We know for a fact that Dimensions in the verse hold ontological difference, as shown in PL and explicity stated in k3, And in the blog you will see in the first era, we have a single regular universe, then we have a universe consisted of 12 Dimensions, then in the next one we know little about, but the one after that the fourth era, we have a regular universe although they are infinite in number compared to the last one. And also there are tons of scans that says the Gods, throne, taikyoku and singularity is above creation, and there is one that says "they have control over all of creation while disconnected from it" and many more that says they are the origin of all laws, concepts and phenomenons in the verse.

You have to prove that you are above any number of dimensional constructs (in oversimplified terms). Where'd you get the 12 dimensions? I also have to point out that simply being able to control all of existence and being above it (even with some number of dimensions) doesn't particularly equate to 1A. Just a little note. I don't agree or disagree with the 1A logic.

By default they indeed transcend all laws, phenomenons and concept in the verse, so yes that is enough for 1-A.

Last I remembered, transcending concepts isn't really 1A. In fact, the biggest downgrading point was that transcending concepts wasn't enough as Shinza supposedly had evidence of being bound to dimensional stuff. That's why I said you'd have to first debunk Yuri's downgrade

 

[Tarang123]

If the evidence is sufficient enough then it's probably fine but I don't see anything that qualifies for 1-A even the FAQ as proven above would change soon according to ultima.

I was talking to Ultima. He said that isn't really going to change too much. Being above a cosmology regardless of dimensional stuff could still become 1A, given context.

 

[Reizen23]

Last I remembered, transcending concepts isn't really 1A. In fact, the biggest downgrading point was that transcending concepts wasn't enough as Shinza supposedly had evidence of being bound to dimensional stuff. That's why I said you'd have to first debunk Yuri's downgrade

It is pretty easy to debunk that btw

 

[Tarang123]

and that is not relevant right now

I mean, it's a cosmology blog.

 

[Darksmash]

Just mentioning again that the so called "12 dimensions" of PL also include the throne so the whole "Singularity doesn't care about dimension changes to the cosmology" narrative is kek

 

[Tarang123]

It is pretty easy to debunk that btw

Okay, but until that's debunked, the reasoning for 1A hits a pretty big road block

 

[Reizen23]

Okay, but until that's debunked, the reasoning for 1A hits a pretty big road block

So we should make a thread against the downgrade of Yuri to say how it is wrong?

 

[Tarang123]

So we should make a thread against the downgrade of Yuri to say how it is wrong?

Let me explain what I said before. What I said before (like way earlier) is that the Shinza profiles should be brought back to their former 1B states. Then, in a CRT with the cosmology blog or whatever the ****, we can make changes and discuss the actual tier of the verse.

Edit: I also want to point out that I will now stand with the disagree side. I think the cosmology blog needs to be fully fleshed out before we start making CRTs and arguments for tiers

 

[Reizen23]

Let me explain what I said before. What I said before (like way earlier) is that the Shinza profiles should be brought back to their former 1B states. Then, in a CRT with the cosmology blog or whatever the ****, we can make changes and discuss the actual tier of the verse

OK and I alr said I agree with this way of bringing Shinza back

 

[Vasco]

I was talking to Ultima. He said that isn't really going to change too much. Being above a cosmology regardless of dimensional stuff could still become 1A, given context.

Still gonna change, currently it talks about a structure being independent of the number of layers/dimensions present on the setting, if they are unaffected by dimensions being arbitrarily added or removed from physical space by virtue of transcending it entirely, or if they exist as a "background" or canvas of sorts in which any amount of them can be inserted.

He said even a single transcendence can do this and will probably be changed, probably in a way similar to the root that's stated to be beyond any dimensional structure, but let's wait and see how he plans to update it.

 

[Tarang123]

Still gonna change, currently it talks about a structure being independent of the number of layers/dimensions present on the setting, if they are unaffected by dimensions being arbitrarily added or removed from physical space by virtue of transcending it entirely, or if they exist as a "background" or canvas of sorts in which any amount of them can be inserted.

He said even a single transcendence can do this and will probably be changed, probably in a way similar to the root that's stated to be beyond any dimensional structure, but let's wait and see how he plans to update it.

I directly asked him, though...let me just quote what he said.

Me: would being above the expansions of some construct regardless of dimensional stuffs not be eligable for 1A anymore?
Ultima: Would be, yeah.

He's basically saying that it would still be 1A, with context. Of course, without context it could just be High 1B, which is beyond any expansion of finite dimensions.

All he said is that all things being zero or whatever is the equivalent of a singular transcendence.

 

[PrinceofPein]

What Darksmash means is that they're the same arguments that got the verse to 1A in the past, while not countering any of the stuff from Yuri's downgrade. This was something I specifically said needed to be done before any kind of 1A upgrade.

all the stuffs from Yuri downgrade as to do with mistranslation and the gods being referred to as Higher dimensional, but hey news flash, even a tier 0 can be referred to as higher dimensional by a 3-D and it will not change anything

As well as that, you are copy-pasting text from the Shinza wiki without crediting them.

not the offical blog and this will be deleted, after the blog is made into a page, also it is the wiki. or rather let me say this is just a blog the actual cosomology will be in a page

You have to prove that you are above any number of dimensional constructs (in oversimplified terms). Where'd you get the 12 dimensions?

are you sure you also read the blog?

I also have to point out that simply being able to control all of existence and being above it (even with some number of dimensions) doesn't particularly equate to 1A. Just a little note. I don't agree or disagree with the 1A logic.

I already did that in the blog, again lets wait for the knowledgeable staffs to decide.

Last I remembered, transcending concepts isn't really 1A. In fact, the biggest downgrading point was that transcending concepts wasn't enough as Shinza supposedly had evidence of being bound to dimensional stuff. That's why I said you'd have to first debunk Yuri's downgrade

I never said the reason for the 1-A is just transcending concepts, please and please read this thing.
And again nothing to debunk from Yuri's downgrade, you can call tier 0 higher D and nothing changes.

Just mentioning again that the so called "12 dimensions" of PL also include the throne

prove you did not read what I wrote in the blog, so I will imploy you to read again. If I added the throne to be a regular dimension we will be talking about 13. (4+9) and not (4+8)
Also the throne being called one of the 10 dimensions in PL does not debunk anything especially since it was shown to be inacessible, also news flash tier 0 can have dimensions now

so the whole "Singularity doesn't care about dimension changes to the cosmology" narrative is kek

In your head? yes


FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, TAKE THE DERAILINGS OUT, NO ONE CARES HERE ABOUT WHAT ULTIMA MAY OR MAY NOT DO IN THE FUTURE, IF HE DOES IT AND IT AFFECTS SHINZA WE WILL FIX IT ACCORDINGLY, BUT RIGHT NOW BASED ON THE TIERING SYSTEM THIS IS WHAT I AM TABLING.
That siad I have read Yuri's downgrade more than 10 times, and again the same thing Trex said it is is just filled with misinformation and more importantly, the gods being referred to as Higher D, means nothing as an excuse against 1-A anymore.