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Senran Kagura gets upgraded for real!

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Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
That, but I'll digress

As for the foundation of Hebijo, even though we don't see it, there is a simple reason why it would have been built underneath, earthquakes. We don't know how old the castle keep is, but the foundation and keep proper would have been built with this purpose in mind, otherwise the entire structure would easily collapse. Having a large foundation to the keep allows you to build bigger keeps on top, and with Hebijo being over 132.9705551721490 m tall, having that foundation is essential

And also, even though I'm not using the game, in the Shoujotachi no Shinei manga, if I remember correctly, we see the castle keep with the foundation
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Not important whatsoever. Stop speculation and provide actual facts, this is tiring. Provide a picture of the actual Hebijo foundation so you can scale that instead of a fake picture. And please provide a picture/statement of that foundation being destroyed. If you cannot provide any of those than there is no debate here.

Fiction can do whatever the hell it wants, buildings can be whatever it wants. Trying to say it's impossible is hilarious, when the feat in question is impossible.

Reality =/= Fiction.

Canon talk and other calcs can happen in another thread or somewhere else. Since no one has any objections, can I start making the change to the profiles and verse page?
 
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I guess right now then we can just simply wait for @Gohan?_You're_still_alive? to get the ripped models we need and discuss on the keys I suggested above

Also, is it a bad idea to use references outside of the games? As I mentioned above, I think we get to see the foundation in the two manga. I'm not saying that the manga should be always used for reference or be considered as canon too, it's more of a condensed version of the game's story to promote the game after all, but since the writer is the one who wrote the game, it should be considered that how the castle in the manga is seen in how the writer visualizes it otherwise he would've not approved it.
 
Note: That also applies to Burst: ReNewel, which is where that art came from. Also Non Canon source shouldn't be used at all, period.

We need to figure out on why these keys exist at all and what calcs they scale too. Also what abilities that they have.

Not okay or accepting a bunch of keys if they're all going to be the exact same stat and abilities wise.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Not okay or accepting a bunch of keys if they're all going to be the exact same stat and abilities wise.
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The keys are for the two repective timelines, it is evident by the fact that in Deep Crimson Homura and gang had gotten stronger since Hebijo's destruction as shown when Homura defeated Suzune and at the end of the game Asuka and Homura were able to defeat True Kagura in their Ultimate forms

I've suggested in the OP that their Ultimate Forms be in the same key like with how Goku has ssj in the same key
 
That's fine, though I need to make some sandboxes to see how they'd look.

And I'll need your help in labeling them, along with any scaling.
 
I've decided on these keys here for Homura and Asuka:

Burst/Timeline 2 | Early Deep Crimson | Late Deep Crimson

And these keys for the rest of the Hanzo and Crimson Squad characters and Naraku

Burst/Timeline 2 | Deep Crimson

I've considered on using Low 7-C, Possibly 7-B for the Deep Crimson keys because the character do face yoma of this level
 
I need more to go off for their ratings. Obviously I need to put something down in their attack potency stats.

What about girls like Miyabi and Yumi. The Estival Versus characters?

Also what does Timeline 2 mean? Why not just Burst?
 
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So do the Timeline 2 only characters have one key? They remained mostly unchanged?

Wait we may have a problem...

Hibari's 8-C+ feat happens in Deep Crimson. If they're stronger in Deep Crimson that means it doesn't scale to Burst/Timeline 2, since they're weaker.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
Hibari's 8-C+ feat happens in Deep Crimson. If they're stronger in Deep Crimson that means it doesn't scale to Burst/Timeline 2, since they're weaker.
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She can perform Enlarge in Burst too, maybe use that version?

Although, if we find out the AP of Orochi based on the model, perhaps we won't need to worry so much
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
She can perform Enlarge in Burst too, maybe use that version?

Although, if we find out the AP of Orochi based on the model, perhaps we won't need to worry so much
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She can't perform the same feat, since she crashing into the ground in Deep Crimson. I looked through Burst special attacks and Hibari doesn't do the same attack.

However I just got Burst Re:Newel and I have both 3ds Deep Crimson. Will be getting the other games too, so I see what I can find.
 
Hibari can do the attack at the beginning of Deep Crimson, right? Considering that the entire 1st chapter is a retcon of Burst’s ending, it should be okay to use
 
Splitting their keys between Timeline 1 & 2 seems fair.

It's kinda like Kagura's profile having Original Timeline (Timeline 1) and Current Timeline (Timeline 2) keys.

But dang, this is like the Mortal Kombat revisions all over again, the NRS timeline and how Midway timeline pages are being made soon-
 
@TheRustyOne I decided to try calcing for the Naraku big ball feat, and I notice that while she defintely not spinning the ball at Supersonic speeds, it does appear the sound barrier is being broken

 
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I haven't created a user blog yet, but on a spreadsheet I decided to calc Naraku's attacks for their AP and torque and got some interesting results

Using simply using frame by frame to get the timeframe, I ended up getting 4.44180586352280E-03 Tons of TNT (9-B+) to 2.84174553540867E-01 Tons of TNT (8-C) for AP, and 5.91563508774554E+06 Netwon-meters (Class K+) to 4.06107179513755E+08 Newton-meters (Class M+) for torque

Assuming that Naraku had broke the sound barrier as seen above (meaning that she's swinging the ball at 770 mph), I ended up getting 1.28675185342706 Tons of TNT (8-C+) to 15.8714981433456 Tons of TNT (8-B) for AP, and 1.36506872400166E+09 Netwon-meters (Class M+) to 2.91368213977899E+09 Newton-meters (Class M+) for torque
 
@Antvasima: Right now we're discussing keys and trying to figure out which feats should scale to who. There was a moment where I thought my 8-C+ calc had issues via these new keys. But Hagane has cleared up my doubts, so the feat should still be useable.

Basically we're going to be spitting the profiles into keys. Maybe some new calcs if they pop up, but mainly this is about getting keys set up for the characters.

@Hagane: Class K/M with a plus doesn't exist. Also I cannot understand you're picture, can you tell me what visual makes you believe the sound barrier is broken? I can easily just look it up myself as well of you tell me. Though I'd obviously prefer the frame by frame, since that is what is happening on screen.

Would Asuka's profile look something like this? Is this the basic structure you're thinking of?
 
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Okay. That is probably fine. Thank you for helping out.
 
Visual effects like that are not proof of anything, this wiki doesn't accept such things and honestly it'd be wrong to accept that. That's just flashy effects for her attack. Unless we have evidence of the contrary we cannot use that as 100% proof that she breaks the sound barrier with that attack.

Storm creations don't scale to physical either, not without a share/universal energy source. Or if was done via physical means, like punching. Aura creating a storm is mystical and has no reason to scale to how hard someone can punch without some evidence of it.
 
I decided to look into the muzzle velocities of the (possible) guns Mirai uses, and got some interesting results:

For her Gunbrella, that is definitely custom made, but considering that it functions like a submachine gun, I looked at guns that could be possibly converted into her gunbrella, and I got 298.704 m/s, 280 m/s to 366 m/s, and 715 m/s

For her Heavy Machine Gun I got 850 m/s, 740 m/s, 853 m/s, and 900 m/s

For her tank I got 780 m/s to 930 m/s, and 1,650.492 m/s to 1,700.784 m/s

For her minigun I got 1030 m/s and 820 m/s to 850 m/s

I think why may have the case for possibly Supersonic+ to Hypersonic Senran Kagura, but what do you think?
 
That all depends on how they react to the bullets, since you can be slower than a projectile and still dodge them.

Like do we have pointblank dodging? If we do than we can just make a calc off that. Comparing their speed to the speed of the bullets should also work.

Also she has a tank?
 
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Gohan?_You're_still_alive? said:
In both timelines can Hibari turn giant, in Timeline 2, she has that Ninpo in Shinovi Versus.
Click to expand...
That wasn't the issue I brought up, my actual issue was rather easily solved. No one else brought up Hibari, so I don't know what else you'd be talking about

Also I have a basic structure for how Asuka's profile will look when separated into the new keys. Obviously no stats, since I don't know what rating she'll have in those keys just yet. But does that basic structure look alright to you guys?
 
Yup, the basic structure looks good so far.

The only problem I realized is, in Timeline 2, Estival Versus story mode, at the final battle, Ryoubi and Ryouna could damage and defeat Happy Turn Ryouki together, they didn't have any special transformations on Ryouki's level at all, which could possibly lead to a far higher tier ranking for them-

Also sorry, I'm taking my time with this model stuff, since it's such a pain trying to find a clean encrypted .3DS rom of Deep Crimson--
 
No worries, we aren't rushing or worried all that much. Honestly we're still looking for feats right now.

Also yes I did mention scaling issues so maybe it'd be best to bring it up now. Maybe someone can explain to me, but why does Happy Turn Ryouki even scale to Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura? Because both of them being transformations and ultimate attack doesn't mean anything.

I assume this is just early weirdness that no one has bother to correct. But I don't believe characters should scale to Asuka and Homura without an actual reason.
 
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Oh wait, it's different in Estival iirc, either it's game physics or Ryouki was holding back.

Normally she's invincible in Happy Turn, but only during the final boss battle does she have a modified moveset in Happy Turn and can be damaged.
 
Aren't all the "ultimate" forms of characters invincible? That part sounds like gameplay mechanics to me.
 
For Orochi's density, I just wonder if we should use the castle's density or the density of flesh?
TheRustyOne said:
That all depends on how they react to the bullets, since you can be slower than a projectile and still dodge them.

Like do we have pointblank dodging? If we do than we can just make a calc off that.
Click to expand...
We have the feat of the characters reacting to a ping pong ball going at bullet speed, considering how terrible ping pong balls are at holding their momentum when bouncing, it would have been going at possibly the higher velocity ends above.

And because I like to fact check, here is the original language's version of the feat, and a amateur translation of it and a deepl translation.



ボールか室内の壁と床を高逑で跳ね回る。
まるで銃弾のようだ。

"The ball bounced about the floor and walls at high speeds. It appeared just like a bullet from a rifle"

Deepl: Bounces around the ball or the walls and floor of the room at a high rate of spontaneity. It looks like a bullet.
Click to expand...
I could calc Mirai ducking if that works
 
I'd prefer Flesh density, but I know that there are non fleshy parts on the body as well. Use both? IDK.

You already know that the ping pong ball thing isn't being accepted again. Basically that vague as hell statement isn't enough to accept that it was moving at bullet speed, and even if it was that'd just mean they're baseline Supersonic at best. Since bullets vary in speed by a lot, and have no reason to be compare to anything specific.

While there are bullets slower than supersonic, when most people refer to bullets they usually think it's faster than sound.

Also apparently the text in Burst Re:Newel is different from what was in the OG Burst, but I don't know how it's changed.
 
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Still not usable.

Also are we almost done here? What calcs are we waiting on?

You didn't answer a lot of my questions and that is a little unnerving. I need to know the keys for the Shinovi/Estival Versus characters.

And why Deep Crimson isn't stronger or something? You mentioned that feats in Deep Crimson could scale back to Burst, and it confused me.

Sorry if I confusing you, I'm very tired right now. Not literally, just mentally.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
You already know that the ping pong ball thing isn't being accepted again. Basically that vague as hell statement isn't enough to accept that it was moving at bullet speed, and even if it was that'd just mean they're baseline Supersonic at best. Since bullets vary in speed by a lot, and have no reason to be compare to anything specific.
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That thread is old, it's a bad idea for us to rely on decisions made by threads from literally 3 years ago since there is the possibility that there is new to come out or that the participants of the thread were misinformed. Consider too that ping pong balls are not golf balls, they have a low spring constant and low momentum rather quickly, it would make sense for it be swung at high speeds to make it ricochet in such a choatic manner. Also, if this is a problem, then why is the muzzle speed of Ryobi's gun being listed in her own speed?

And there's no need to be up in arms, on a spreadsheet I'm not using just one speed and so far with only Mirai ducking I'm only getting Subsonic to Supersonic results
TheRustyOne said:
You didn't answer a lot of my questions and that is a little unnerving.
Click to expand...
?
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
That thread is old, it's a bad idea for us to rely on decisions made by threads from literally 3 years ago since there is the possibility that there is new to come out or that the participants of the thread were misinformed. Consider too that ping pong balls are not golf balls, they have a low spring constant and low momentum rather quickly, it would make sense for it be swung at high speeds to make it ricochet in such a choatic manner. Also, if this is a problem, then why is the muzzle speed of Ryobi's gun being listed in her own speed?
Click to expand...
That isn't suggested as her own speed. It's supporting her current speed rating, since she can keep up with people who react to her shots.

Like I said thought I'm really mentally drained right now so I may be talking gibberish/harsher at this moment. However I 100% agree with that thread, I don't understand people who use time as a valid argument to discredit something. Since you are not providing any new information, so I have no reason to buy anything you said there.

But yeah, waiting for calcs right now?
 
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TheRustyOne said:
But yeah, waiting for calcs right now?
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Yes, and the ripped models of Orochi in order to get the volume to calc for AP

TheRustyOne said:
And why Deep Crimson isn't stronger or something? You mentioned that feats in Deep Crimson could scale back to Burst, and it confused me.
Click to expand...

Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
Considering that the entire 1st chapter is a retcon of Burst’s ending
Click to expand...
This does not apply for the later chapters of Deep Crimson
 
Yeah I realized, and was kind of hoping you wouldn't notice that freak up I said.

Actually just got Deep Crimson because of this thread and currently going through it. Also have Burst and Burst Re:Newel, don't ask why I got the 3ds version. And I'm planning to get Shinovi Versus as well. Already have Estival Versus, it was actually the game that got me into Senran Kagura in the first place.

So hey question, can I use Asuka's dig through the ground attack as a way to get AP? Since she has to destroy ground to actually travel through it, which has to be pulverization or she can't move through the ground like she does. Or does she go intangible or something?

But yeah I was thinking about that, but I'm not certain if that is too absurd. Logically she should be making a tunnel and it happens in less than a second, so it should be good for AP. But I wanted an opinion on this, since I could just be stupid here. It may give decent results, nothing mind blowing but it could be something.
 
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