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Senran Kagura gets upgraded for real!

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Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I'll ask a similar question to @Gohan?_You're_still_alive?, what exactly makes Hikage's Frenzy Mode comparible to Crimson Homura or Ultimate Asuka?
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I believe a lot of characters with these transformations are scaling to Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura just because they're transformations. We should only scale people to them who have feats of fighting them, or any statements that'd scale them.

Playing through Deep Crimson right now, so I'll see what I can find.

Calcs look good, though I question on why these people are scaling to Naraku in lifting strength. Has anyone physically grappled with Naraku, we shouldn't scale people to others just because they scale to their striking strength. Since Striking Strength, Attack Potency, and Lifting Strength are all different values.

So I'm not certain if all of these people should be scaling to Naraku's feats without feats of grabbling with her in some way.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Has anyone physically grappled with Naraku, we shouldn't scale people to others just because they scale to their striking strength. Since Striking Strength, Attack Potency, and Lifting Strength are all different values.

So I'm not certain if all of these people should be scaling to Naraku's feats without feats of grabbling with her in some way.
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Well, not many people have exactly grappled in Dragon Ball, but their LS still scales to each other, mostly because they would be a comparable power level
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
Well, not many people have exactly grappled in Dragon Ball, but their LS still scales to each other, mostly because they would be a comparable power level
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Yeah don't bring up other verses here. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And there is possibility of their being more context than what you're assuming. And ect, basically don't bring it here. I'd like to see some wiki rules, which already state you can't find lifting strength with striking strength and the two can't be compared to each other.

Focus on right here. Because I can throw this around and tell you a verse that doesn't scale lifting strength off of striking strength/attack potency. And we'll be at this all day, pointing out what verse does what.
 
Never mind, I'm dropping that.

Since I think it'd be alright for people who fight Naraku to scale. And those who scale to them would also scale. So basically pointless, just would like better reasoning.

But we need to remove all of the should be as strong as someone or whatever. And have actual scaling instead of making it seem like we're making assumptions.
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
What about durability then? As Kyle Hill would put it not having the right durability for similar feats can mean Naraku getting her leg(s) ripped off?
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What did that have to do with what I said?

Your calc upgraded the amount of joules she scales too? AP upgrade is happening?

Also does Kagura have any physical feats? Not from her magic attacks and not durability.
 
Sorry for coming out of nowhere, but uh... What happened to the 8-B Upgrades? I just look at the pages and found a lot of folks in Senran Kagura back being 8-C+, and this fanta is confused as a result.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Sorry for coming out of nowhere, but uh... What happened to the 8-B Upgrades? I just look at the pages and found a lot of folks in Senran Kagura back being 8-C+, and this fanta is confused as a result.
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Ice/Temperature feats don't auto scale to physical abilities unless they have proof of using that same energy to increase their physical strength.

Same reason why Todoroki doesn't scale to his own ice/fire feats.
 
Oof, that's a huge bumper... For goodness sake, I only found out about this issue right now-ish since I thought SK would be a good verse to throw at another 8-B Verse I know of. Welp, somebody should add back Yumi's match with Sub-Zero since the verse upgrade was rejected.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Oof, that's a huge bumper... For goodness sake, I only found out about this issue right now-ish since I thought SK would be a good verse to throw at another 8-B Verse I know of. Welp, somebody should add back Yumi's match with Sub-Zero since the verse upgrade was rejected.
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They were downgraded.

Yumi and Sub-Zero were High 8-C in that fight, but Yumi is now around 3X weaker than she use to be. The fight was removed because she is now 8-C+

The High 8-C feat and the 8-B feat were both the same feat, ice creation, just that 8-B was a recalc of it. But both have the same problem of not scaling to their strength.
 
I made the match lol, but now Yumi's weaker so she'd stand even less of a chance, makes sense to remove it, but I feel like I should remove Subby's victory over Yumi on his page-
 
They're lifting those things with their attacks, which is striking strength and doesn't scale to their lifting strength. They keep them in the air by hitting them, not lifting.

I'm not seeing any lifting here. If you don't believe me, make the calc and see what the calc group members have to say. Just remember to clearly link the feat in question in your blog, so they can see it for themselves.

I said I was fine with the lifting strength stuff up above. More feats are always welcomed though.
 
At least now I can have Lu Bu vs Asuka maybe, Dynasty Warriors could use some revisions but all the Koei verse members are dead, I'm the only one alive supporter for that verse rn- ;-;

Regardless, could just be striking strength knocking them higher, which reminds me of Gohan punching Botamo to lift him up and knock him off the T.O.P stage.
 
On the subject of SK universal power, I haven't exactly found anything in the games yet on that but in the wiki page for Mirai's gun it says that she empowers her bullets with... ninja energy?

Look, I know wiki pages can't exactly be reliable but if the characters have around at least 8-C+ durability there has to be something more added to the bullets to have them able to hurt other characters
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
On the subject of SK universal power, I haven't exactly found anything in the games yet on that but in the wiki page for Mirai's gun it says that she empowers her bullets with... ninja energy?

Look, I know wiki pages can't exactly be reliable but if the characters have around at least 8-C+ durability there has to be something more added to the bullets to have them able to hurt other characters
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The thing is, even in the anime they are casually hurt by bullets, iirc.

There's even Ryoubi and Ryouna too, they fight with guns.

It's their Shinobi Turnover (Shinobi Transformation) that allow them to take on bullets, their transformation states acting as armor of the sort.
 
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The anime is very iffy, like they aren't canon to the games. Isn't only the OVA for Estival Versus canon?

I don't know where Kagura's 7-B rating comes from, it lacks any source on the page. So I don't know of this Yoma strong enough to destroy Kyoto in one shot.

Now: Asuka and Homura's defeat of Kagura is considered an outlier, as it was revealed she was unintentionally holding back. Additionally, they went back to struggling to defeat characters far weaker than Kagura in games after the one in which she first appeared.

Deep Crimson has no sequel so them struggling to defeat characters far weaker than Kagura is wrong. Unless I'm missing something here. Also where was it revealed that Kagura was holding back? I just finished the final battle of Deep Crimson and maybe I missed something, but I didn't see anything to suggest she was holding back against them.

I know Kagura and Naraku jumped into Timeline 2, is that where it was revealed she held back against them?
 
TheRustyOne said:
I don't know where Kagura's 7-B rating comes from, it lacks any source on the page. So I don't know of this Yoma strong enough to destroy Kyoto in one shot.
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I guess adult Kagura is getting downgraded to "at least Low 7-C, likely higher" due to fighting a stronger Asuka and Homura along with Naraku who earlier was able fight weaker versions of Asuka and Homura by herself with Homura able to defeat Suzune/Rin
 
Why do Daidouji and Rin scale to Ultimate Asuka and Crimson Homura? Like I said there are a lot of this scaling I can't wrap my head around.

(Likely comparable to Crimson Homura and Ultimate Asuka) That is horrible reasoning, no scans or evidence to suggest they scale to each other. If there is evidence to suggest they scale to them, than that should be their reasoning and not likely/should be comparable with nothing else.

I wonder if we should reach out to Arrogant Schmuck to see where these ratings come from.
 
I know you don't like to bring up other verses, but I think the logic should at least used as a way to help with scaling. Now in the clash between Homura and Asuka is rather similar to the one between Sasuke and Naruto at the end of Part 1, Kakashi, who is a high level jonin, is upscaled from the AP of that clash. And the AP of Naruto and Sasuke during that clash are upscaled from the AP of the Sound Four.

Of course you can look at the notes for these two pages if they help

With all of this in mind, you can say that Rin, Dai, and other top tiers upscale to the feat that was done by the clash between Asuka and Homura. And Rin and Dai are Saijonin by the way, and it is clear that higher ranks of jonin are stronger with Kagura and Hinin being the strongest.

In Deep Crimson it was stated that the High 7-A feat is what the strength of a Hinin is equal too, and Kagura due to scaling should be higher
 
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Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I know you don't like to bring up other verses, but I think the logic should at least used as a way to help with scaling. Now in the clash between Homura and Asuka is rather similar to the one between Sasuke and Naruto at the end of Part 1, Kakashi is upscaled from the AP of that clash. And the AP of Naruto and Sasuke during that clash are upscaled from the AP of the Sound Four.
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I'm pretty sure they have actual reason to scale. Actually Kakashi is scaling to something else, he's 7-B while the clash is Low 7-B. They scale to 30% Kisame.

I'm not seeing any reason for them to scale to Asuka and Homura. There is no reasoning, their page says they should scale because of nothing. Just that they should or likely be comparable without any scans to support that reasoning. Have Daidouji and Rin fought Crimson Homura and Ultimate Asuka?

If so than that would be better reasoning. I have zero issue with them scaling to them, they just need an actual justification to scale.
 
With all of this in mind, you can say that Rin, Dai, and other top tiers upscale to the feat that was done by the clash between Asuka and Homura. And Rin and Dai are Saijonin by the way, and it is clear that higher ranks of shinobi are stronger with Kagura and Hinin being the strongest.

In Deep Crimson it was stated that the High 7-A feat is what the strength of a Hinin is equal too, and Kagura due to scaling should be higher
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
With all of this in mind, you can say that Rin, Dai, and other top tiers upscale to the feat that was done by the clash between Asuka and Homura. And Rin and Dai are Saijonin by the way, and it is clear that higher ranks of shinobi are stronger with Kagura and Hinin being the strongest.

In Deep Crimson it was stated that the High 7-A feat is what the strength of a Hinin is equal too, and Kagura due to scaling should be higher
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Yes I did noticed that Hinin would be equal to Kagura as stated in the game. Who is Hinin rank, and is the Kagura rank above Hinin? Maybe Sayuri/Jasmine scaling?

However ranking doesn't mean much to Crimson Homura and Ultimate Asuka. They are superior transformations than their normal state. They even defeated True Kagura as well, which kind of blows the whole ranking thing out of the water for them.

Also it isn't physically impossible for them to be stronger, especially when they can defeat Rin and Daidouji despite being the same rank as in Burst. Also Ikaruga and Katsuragi apparently defeated Daidouji in their first year.

Note: I'd like to see the statement that reveals Kagura held back during their fight as well.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
Who is Hinin rank, and is the Kagura rank above Hinin?
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senrankagura.fandom.com

Shinobi Ranks

The following is a list of Shinobi Ranks in Senran Kagura. There's a total of 19 ranks ranging from Shinobi Student all the way to Kagura. All shinobi start off as Shinobi Students when they first begin training at their Shinobi School of choice. They later have the chance to increase their...
senrankagura.fandom.com senrankagura.fandom.com
 
So no one in series has the Hinin rank just yet.

Also if the Kagura rank is above Hinin, does that mean Prime Sayuri or Jasmine would scale to High 7-A?
 
Gohan?_You're_still_alive? said:
I'd talk about New Link but that game isn't localized yet, so I can't tell if it's canon or not.
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From what I read, the mobile games are another timeline since they contradict the console games. Characters meeting in New Link for the first time, yet the same characters meet for the first time in Peach Beach Splash. Considering their status, I think it'd be best to ignore them.

Note: I do not fully know if the characters meeting thing is true, just what I've seen people say.
 
Just say this, in the Guren no Hebi manga, Asuka and Homura fight Daidouji together and end up losing. Dai then reverts her transformation and states "You need the power equal to that of a Super Secret Ninja Scroll to defeat me"
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
Just say this, in the Guren no Hebi manga, Asuka and Homura fight Daidouji together and end up losing. Dai then reverts her transformation and states "You need the power equal to that of a Super Secret Ninja Scroll to defeat me"
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Also found a quote from Kiriya in Burst Re:Newel that states Daidouji is stronger than all five of them put together.

"Daidouji has returned to Hanzo Academy. She may well be stronger than all five of you together, but try sparring with her."

Chapter 5-8 Mission quote. I feel like this should still be usable as well. I'm uncertain how to treat that manga quote.

Also is Miyabi's story in Burst Re:Newel she was able to fight True Kagura in her Abyssal Mode. Not certain what that means for scaling, since I'm still looking for that statement where Kagura was holding back.
 
Daidouji already has resistance to time stop for not being frozen. Though punching through space should give her limited spatial manipulation.
 
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