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Sealing Away Naruto's 5-B in a Chibaku Tensei
- Status
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@UchihaSlayer96 is going to evaluate the sandbox sometime soon, we’re waiting for him.
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Yeah, I'm sorry. I've been really busy with IRL stuff for the past couple of days. I'll comment as soon as I can.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,329
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It's all good, take your time man.
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No worries,sometimes stuff happens.
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I disagree with the following section.
The other jutsu is Suffocating Darkness, which is explained in the second databook below.
The key difference is one is endowed with physical strength while the other isn't.
Moving onto the evidence you use to justify Shikamaru is false since Shikamaru himself says he isn't capable of doing it when he actually tries to use Suforcating Darkness on a tree later on during the same novel.
Countering counter Arguments kinda idk.
Shikamaru holding the Gokage was in page 58-59 and he calls it Shadow Possession but as stated in the above scans only Suffocating Darkness would have an effect on physical objects not Shadow Posession.
He claims he hasn't used this jutsu in a long time in the above scans, but we know he used Shadow Possession during the Chunin exams against Momoshiki and Kinshiki, which this novel takes place after.
I feel like I'm forgetting something and I don't know what.
So there's two jutsu that Shikamaru uses one is Shadow Possession Jutsu which is described as the following in the first databook and fourth.
The other jutsu is Suffocating Darkness, which is explained in the second databook below.
The key difference is one is endowed with physical strength while the other isn't.
Moving onto the evidence you use to justify Shikamaru is false since Shikamaru himself says he isn't capable of doing it when he actually tries to use Suforcating Darkness on a tree later on during the same novel.
Countering counter Arguments kinda idk.
Shikamaru holding the Gokage was in page 58-59 and he calls it Shadow Possession but as stated in the above scans only Suffocating Darkness would have an effect on physical objects not Shadow Posession.
He claims he hasn't used this jutsu in a long time in the above scans, but we know he used Shadow Possession during the Chunin exams against Momoshiki and Kinshiki, which this novel takes place after.
I feel like I'm forgetting something and I don't know what.
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I also kinda disagree with Black Zetsu's scaling it's not really big on my list but eh since I'm here.
Zetsu's ability is to manipulate the body and consciousness at will. So his stats should say it depends on the body he's attached to or up to moon level when using Obito's body or something.
His speed though is good since he moved faster than Minato though iirc.
So Zetsu's thing is the following from the databook.
Zetsu's ability is to manipulate the body and consciousness at will. So his stats should say it depends on the body he's attached to or up to moon level when using Obito's body or something.
His speed though is good since he moved faster than Minato though iirc.
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Bro what exactly do you want? There is "up to moon level" in zetsu page while attached to obito body .I also kinda disagree with Black Zetsu's scaling it's not really big on my list but eh since I'm here.
So Zetsu's thing is the following from the databook.
Zetsu's ability is to manipulate the body and consciousness at will. So his stats should say it depends on the body he's attached to or up to moon level when using Obito's body or something.
His speed though is good since he moved faster than Minato though iirc.
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I disagree with the following section.
So there's two jutsu that Shikamaru uses one is Shadow Possession Jutsu which is described as the following in the first databook and fourth.
The other jutsu is Suffocating Darkness, which is explained in the second databook below.
The key difference is one is endowed with physical strength while the other isn't.
Moving onto the evidence you use to justify Shikamaru is false since Shikamaru himself says he isn't capable of doing it when he actually tries to use Suforcating Darkness on a tree later on during the same novel.
Countering counter Arguments kinda idk.
Shikamaru holding the Gokage was in page 58-59 and he calls it Shadow Possession but as stated in the above scans only Suffocating Darkness would have an effect on physical objects not Shadow Posession.
He claims he hasn't used this jutsu in a long time in the above scans, but we know he used Shadow Possession during the Chunin exams against Momoshiki and Kinshiki, which this novel takes place after.
I feel like I'm forgetting something and I don't know what.
I haven’t read the novels so I won’t comment, but if someone who is knowledgeable on the novel and wants to confirm the interpretations of those scans or oppose them, that’d be cool. But personally from the scans provided it does seem like a bluff and not legit.
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Okay, so I've held this up long enough, so I'll try to address what I wanna address real quick. I don't think I'll get to everything right now 'cause I'm really short on time atm, but this should address most things.
So we can either add a "higher with Kurama Avatar", or just include this bit into the above jutsification.
Basically, I want to propose that he's rated as "At least 6-C, likely 5-C" for him. "possibly 5-C" or "at most 5-C" would work, too. Whichever ya'll think works best ig.
So, the argument is just simply the fact that Sasuke received a flat chakra amp from Hagoromo. Basically he got a ton of chakra, and was greatly empowered. We've seen this a million times in the series. Chakra amps such as those never really enhanced one attribute to such a ridiculous degree, without touching the other ones.
I feel like Sage Mode's a good bench mark example, as it amps absolutely everything. Same with the curse mark. Bijuu chakra. Just, any chakra amp I could personally think of doesn't really behave like that for the most part. Now there are techniques that specifically amp certain attributes like shunshin amping speed, Rasengan amping AP, or Iron Spear amping durability. But just regular ass chakra amps turning someone into a brick wall or glass canon? I can't think of too many instances of that happening personally.
Honestly, this alone wouldn't have made me bring this up. What prompted me to make this argument is just the fact that Sasuke was not a brick wall prior to the Six Paths amp, and more importantly, he was definitely not one after receiving it either. We can clearly see that he can harm those capable of harming him. Now, yes, he's greatly weakened here, but it wouldn't make much sense for his durability to drop massively more than his physical strength/AP, certainly not by millions of times or whatever the difference is. Like, it's possible I guess, but it would just be super strange.
I dunno, maybe this is all just me, but it's just what I think atm.
Also, I think the Perfect Susano'o here should get a "far higher", since it scales to the KA, which scales above the 2x RS variants, etc etc.
I think the first bit of the justification should be modified to something along the lines of:
The current justification implies that they are confirmed to be above her individually, which IMO is not the case.
Also, a couple more things. The feat of him hurting base Naruto and sending him flying is valid, but it should be mentioned that Naruto was caught off-guard here, especially if Sasuke's feats of a similar nature aren't even being used.
Finally, he should get a higher with Ninjutsu as well (when it's amped by chakra pills) since it managed to knock out and incapacitate SPSM Kurama Avatar Naruto. Maybe even a far higher, idk.
Isshiki scaling above the MAS if totally valid, though. I feel like his statements are a bit more solid and straightforward imo.
I think you forgot to give Isshiki SS and Dura sections lmao
The current discourse regarding Shikamaru is one I agree with. I think his AP should be massively downgraded.
I'm a bit pressed for time rn and really tired, so I'll respond to KT later. I'll try to do it tomorrow, but no promises.
I also wanted to talk about Shin, but again, kinda pressed atm. So I'll either talk about him when I address KT, or maybe I'll just save it for that High 6-A thread, we shall see.
Again, overall, great job, Arc.
Tbh, I'm not really too pressed about anything I mentioned above. So if ya'll just wanna move on with this, that's fine with me. This is just meant to be a quick fix for the profiles' values and scaling anyway, and it certainly achieves that and then some. Whatever issues I may personally have, I can just handle later in separate CRTs. I really don't wanna hold this up more than I already have. Really sorry about that btw.
I'm not really sure this comparison works, with Sasuke and base Naruto I mean. Sasuke failed to harm Fused Momo in that instance, but it's not like Naruto managed to do so either. He just matched his AP. It works well enough to say that this makes base Naruto superior to Darui, though, since Momo's AP wrecked his ass. But Sasuke didn't interact with Momo in terms of AP here, so I don't find this justification the best. I think you should just mention that he briefly matched Momoshiki, which makes him superior to Darui.
I feel like it'd be worth mentioning here that his Chō Ōdama Rasengan was able to one-shot both Fused Momoshiki and Delta.
Question. Are you sort of including the Kurama Avatar with "Kurama Six Paths Sage Mode"? If so, then I think you should include the fact that it's considered Naruto's full power somewhere. It's also the main reason for him scaling above the 2x Rasengan variant stuff. That's not super relevant for Adult Nard since he scales to 2x his base via Fused Momo scaling regardless, but it's a nice piece of support, and could be relevant for Naruto's previous versions.
So we can either add a "higher with Kurama Avatar", or just include this bit into the above jutsification.
So, sorry, I know this ain't New Era, but I do have an argument I want to share for base Sasuke.
Basically, I want to propose that he's rated as "At least 6-C, likely 5-C" for him. "possibly 5-C" or "at most 5-C" would work, too. Whichever ya'll think works best ig.
So, the argument is just simply the fact that Sasuke received a flat chakra amp from Hagoromo. Basically he got a ton of chakra, and was greatly empowered. We've seen this a million times in the series. Chakra amps such as those never really enhanced one attribute to such a ridiculous degree, without touching the other ones.
I feel like Sage Mode's a good bench mark example, as it amps absolutely everything. Same with the curse mark. Bijuu chakra. Just, any chakra amp I could personally think of doesn't really behave like that for the most part. Now there are techniques that specifically amp certain attributes like shunshin amping speed, Rasengan amping AP, or Iron Spear amping durability. But just regular ass chakra amps turning someone into a brick wall or glass canon? I can't think of too many instances of that happening personally.
Honestly, this alone wouldn't have made me bring this up. What prompted me to make this argument is just the fact that Sasuke was not a brick wall prior to the Six Paths amp, and more importantly, he was definitely not one after receiving it either. We can clearly see that he can harm those capable of harming him. Now, yes, he's greatly weakened here, but it wouldn't make much sense for his durability to drop massively more than his physical strength/AP, certainly not by millions of times or whatever the difference is. Like, it's possible I guess, but it would just be super strange.
I dunno, maybe this is all just me, but it's just what I think atm.
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you didn't include these feats for Sasuke? At the least, I feel like his Kusanagi Blade and Ninjutsu should scale to SPSM Naruto's tier, which would be consistent with both their previous keys, and also their portrayal as rivals overall.
Also, I think the Perfect Susano'o here should get a "far higher", since it scales to the KA, which scales above the 2x RS variants, etc etc.
Okay, so the first bit goes for both Momo and Kin.
I think the first bit of the justification should be modified to something along the lines of:
You can tweak that wording however you like, but the point is that nothing in those scans really confirms or indicates that Kaguya feared these guys individually. All of the statements refer to them as a duo. This also makes more sense with the fact that Adult Naruto and Sasuke still consider Kaguya a formidable opponent, and the whole reason they even considered the duo's arrival a threat was the potential of them being threats to her in the first place.
The current justification implies that they are confirmed to be above her individually, which IMO is not the case.
Also, a couple more things. The feat of him hurting base Naruto and sending him flying is valid, but it should be mentioned that Naruto was caught off-guard here, especially if Sasuke's feats of a similar nature aren't even being used.
Finally, he should get a higher with Ninjutsu as well (when it's amped by chakra pills) since it managed to knock out and incapacitate SPSM Kurama Avatar Naruto. Maybe even a far higher, idk.
Ngl, I'm not seeing at all how Shikamaru implies that Isshiki being stronger than Code is uncertain. Is it just his usage of the word "should"? The thing is, Shikamaru is not an authority on any of these people's powers in the first place. He doesn't know how powerful either of them actually are. The only things he really knows for sure is that Jigen defeated NaruSasu, Isshiki's stronger than Jigen (and also beat NaruSasu), and that Code's power surpasses Jigen's. I don't think he's in any position to be an authority on Isshiki vs Code IMO.
So a couple of things.
Ehhhhh, I'm honestly iffy about this being used to scale Jigen above the MAS. There's no reason to assume Koji even knows about the MAS, and given the fact that Naruto and Sasuke already pushed Jigen to his absolute limit and had moments where they seemed to be genuine threats to him, somewhat survive his attacks, etc, makes me a bit doubtful about Jigen being above the MAS. Much like Shikamaru, Koji isn't an authority on Naruto and Sasuke, and he was mostly hypothesizing here.
Isshiki scaling above the MAS if totally valid, though. I feel like his statements are a bit more solid and straightforward imo.
The current discourse regarding Shikamaru is one I agree with. I think his AP should be massively downgraded.
I'm a bit pressed for time rn and really tired, so I'll respond to KT later. I'll try to do it tomorrow, but no promises.
I also wanted to talk about Shin, but again, kinda pressed atm. So I'll either talk about him when I address KT, or maybe I'll just save it for that High 6-A thread, we shall see.
Again, overall, great job, Arc.
Tbh, I'm not really too pressed about anything I mentioned above. So if ya'll just wanna move on with this, that's fine with me. This is just meant to be a quick fix for the profiles' values and scaling anyway, and it certainly achieves that and then some. Whatever issues I may personally have, I can just handle later in separate CRTs. I really don't wanna hold this up more than I already have. Really sorry about that btw.
MinatoSparkle
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Lmaooooooooooooo I pretty much brought up those exact same arguments in regards to Sasuke in dm with Arc 
Definitely agree that Sasuke is not Drained Base Naruto level, and I'll also add that Sasuke fighting Kinshiki, his main justification, is him after using a lot of chakra in both instances.
And Base Jigen while offguard tanked a kick from SPSM KCM Naruto, making Sasuke's ability to affect K1 Jigen even more impressive.
Gonna have to disagree with Jigen vs MAS tho, it's pretty clearly implied that they couldn't have defeated him with them being unsure how they'd deal with Isshiki before even knowing how much stronger than Jigen he was and Sasuke saying they can't defeat him.
Definitely agree that Sasuke is not Drained Base Naruto level, and I'll also add that Sasuke fighting Kinshiki, his main justification, is him after using a lot of chakra in both instances.
And Base Jigen while offguard tanked a kick from SPSM KCM Naruto, making Sasuke's ability to affect K1 Jigen even more impressive.
Gonna have to disagree with Jigen vs MAS tho, it's pretty clearly implied that they couldn't have defeated him with them being unsure how they'd deal with Isshiki before even knowing how much stronger than Jigen he was and Sasuke saying they can't defeat him.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
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Btw where's the post with all the new scalings? It's not the OP as far as I can tell
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I can replace Sasuke with Darui here ig.
I was just trying not to overclutter the profile, hence I really only included his multipliers, but if you wanna edit that into the sandbox sure.
Yes.
Ngl idrc care, it's up to others, if you wanna type out the on profile justification for it sure.
First, knocking some around without dealing damage is lifting strength not AP. Second, all the Jigen stuff is like Sasuke off guarding him and dealing 0 damage. Hence they weren't included.
Hence why I said he posits it, I'm not claiming it's word of god. Nevertheless there can be some potential narrative intent there, as the way Ikemoto provides information to the reader is through dialogue. Regardless it doesn't affect his rating so idc if it gets deleted or not.
Given Koji gets his information from Amado, and Amado would logically be aware of their capabilities through research. I think it's fine.
Naw the scans are in the AP section, too lazy to double post scans.
Aight
do you agree or disagree with the polar particles amp rn tho? or do you have no stance
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I'm still gonna do a bit of research into a few things, but for the time being, I agree with the amp.
I really gotta go now, so I'll reply to the rest of your post later.
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Not all of them are related to just sending some aliens flying
One of them has Jigen's blood after a kick from Sasuke, others have him actively teleporting away and/or blocking his attacks, the second in particular has both Jigen and Naruto showing to be aware of how good (For Naruto) or bad (For Jigen) said attack was about to be. Slicing through Super Momoshiki's Jutsu is also a better scaling for Sasuke then just scaling him to Kinshiki
I'd also consider this feat since Sasuke had to match Isshiki's attack which, even with him being somewhat casual (He directly says he intends to kill Sasuke but eh), should be relevant for his AP and LS section
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I can agree with a ‘likely 5-C‘ for P2 Sasuke’s physicals.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
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Sasuke the SM Koji slayer 
Rinnegone Sasuke the Karma Boruto slayer and K2 Kawaki threat
Rinnegone Sasuke the Karma Boruto slayer and K2 Kawaki threat
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Ya'll gon' be real stressed when Kishimoto puts all of his high universe stats into the Boruto manga (which he already hinted at w/ higher transcending characters and allat mumbo jumbo). Most of this will likely be reverted and buffed by the end of 2024.
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Wow, and I thought "we're gonna find a new 5-B calc" was optimistic.
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So me thinking momoshiki memories is gonna start flowing into boruto and he's gonna see into the past which is gonna come with some ridiculous feats for momoshiki is like too hopeful?
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Aight, this is the sequel to yesterday's post.
Won't be able to make edits anytime soon, but if you don't mind waiting, I can do it later.
Also, speaking of Jigen/Isshiki...
Firstly, regarding Kurama's statement, it was only about Naruto's battle senses being dulled through inactivity. He's basically saying he should've seen that attack coming. That really shouldn't have any impact on Naruto's durability or AP, especially not one that's mainly facilitated through Kurama's chakra cloak and SPSM.
Secondly, Naruto being off-guard here shouldn't matter in my opinion. KCM essentially puts armor around Naruto in the form of a chakra cloak, him being on or off-guard shouldn't really impact the cloak's durability, and it never has to my knowledge. These cloaks have also been shown to be pretty resistant to cutting and piercing attacks many times, even when people were somewhat caught off-guard. The same thing could be said for Sage Mode. There's more examples I can bring up, but I'm lazy, and I'm sure you get my point by now.
So yeah, I still think Shin should scale with his MS controlled weapons. We can discuss how that affects Sakura later.
But yeah, I think this is pretty much everything I wanted to say regarding the Sandbox.
Sounds great.
Clutter is kinda unavoidable with Nard, dude has a lot going on no matter what. I think this bit's pretty relevant tho. Him being to one-shot physical rivals with an attack is a big deal imo.
Won't be able to make edits anytime soon, but if you don't mind waiting, I can do it later.
So you agree with adding that bit to the justification...?
Same thing as above, I can do it, just not now.
It honestly feels like you skimmed through that album I sent. It has more examples than him sending others flying, as others like Sparkle and Lightning have mentioned earlier. Sasuke has a lot of higher end portrayal and feats.
Okay, sure, but I don't agree with your conclusion regarding the "intent" there either. I don't think the point of that piece of dialogue was to throw doubt regarding Isshiki's superiority to Code, I think the intent is to reinforce that idea if nothing else.
Meh, I don't fully agree, but tbh I don't care enough about this rn to debate it further.
No, Arc. Like, Isshiki doesn't have a SS and durability section AT ALL, lol.
Also, speaking of Jigen/Isshiki...
These bits belong in the P&A section if I'm not mistaken. I think it was decided a while back that Dura Neg and Immortality/Regen stuff should no longer be put in the AP or Dura sections anymore.
Tbh, I still disagree with Koji scaling this high, for essentially the same reasons that were brought up in the last Koji thread by Nierre and others, but it's whatever. If everyone's okay with it, I can live with it for now.
Regarding Shin using his MS ability to have Sasuke's sword stab through SPSM KCM Naruto, I'm not entirely sure this works.
Firstly, regarding Kurama's statement, it was only about Naruto's battle senses being dulled through inactivity. He's basically saying he should've seen that attack coming. That really shouldn't have any impact on Naruto's durability or AP, especially not one that's mainly facilitated through Kurama's chakra cloak and SPSM.
Secondly, Naruto being off-guard here shouldn't matter in my opinion. KCM essentially puts armor around Naruto in the form of a chakra cloak, him being on or off-guard shouldn't really impact the cloak's durability, and it never has to my knowledge. These cloaks have also been shown to be pretty resistant to cutting and piercing attacks many times, even when people were somewhat caught off-guard. The same thing could be said for Sage Mode. There's more examples I can bring up, but I'm lazy, and I'm sure you get my point by now.
So yeah, I still think Shin should scale with his MS controlled weapons. We can discuss how that affects Sakura later.
But yeah, I think this is pretty much everything I wanted to say regarding the Sandbox.
Now it's KT's turn.
Naruto and Hagoromo's "sick states" don't have any less chakra than normal. In fact, they're perfectly healthy for the most part, and the amount of chakra they possess is the same. The only issue is that their chakra channels are clogged, rendering them unable to use chakra because it simply cannot flow through their body.
All the Ultra Particles do is amplify their existing chakra so much that it kinda forcibly unclogs their pathways and returns them back to normal. Kinda like increasing the pressure through a clogged pipe to unblock it. We know from this scan that the increase is around 2x, and we know from this other scan that the particles do provide a permanent boost to the recipient's power.
Like, this isn't something I actually care about if I'm being honest. I wasn't even aware of these particles until pretty recently, so it's not like I'm super invested in this topic. It's just that when looking at the evidence, I don't think your interpretation makes a lot of sense personally.
Lemme give you an example.
Remember how SPSM Naruto was stated to be stronger than his previous Kurama Mode, and was shown to be relative to Madara? Aight, cool. SPSM + KCM Naruto is also on this level, obviously, but like a bit stronger since he competed with stronger versions of Madara. I think this is all stuff we can agree on.
So my thinking is that none of this would make sense if Juubi Jins functioned like normal Jins. If he was replacing his current chakra with that of the other Bijuu inside him, he'd end up being far weaker than Madara, since Madara had far more of those Bijuu's chakra. It's obvious that Naruto's using all of his chakra, and also amping it with his Bijuu chakra on top. Otherwise, there really would be no point to him using KCM at that point. He doesn't even need it to access the individual Bijuu's abilities.
Same thing could be said for Madara. He underwent a couple of amps, which wouldn't make sense if he didn't really use his total available power, and was simply just replacing it with the Juubi's power, which would be static.
We also sort of see this concept in action with Sasuke's Gedo Susano'o. Him absorbing the 9 Bijuu's chakra (essentially recreating the Juubi's chakra) massively amped the power of the Susano'o, which wouldn't work if he was, like, replacing the Susano'o original power with the Bijuu's or something (because he overpowered Naruto, who's beyond the Juubi on its own at that point). It's also worth noting that Kurama stated that what Sasuke did here was the exact opposite of what Hagoromo did in the past, meaning that prior to dispersing the Juubi's chakra within him, Hagoromo was conceptually similar to the Gedo Susano'o. It's probably why Kurama knew that the Susano'o that'd emerge would be something incredible.
Also, like, yeah I actually think they are merging with the Juubi tbh. It's clearly very unlike any other Bijuu/Jinchuriki relationship. It literally alters their physical make-up and appearance. Their skin becomes very similar to the Ten-Tails' hide. They literally physically absorb the damn thing. And it was repeatedly described as the Jinchuriki making the Juubi's power their own. And this was obviously likened to Hagoromo many times as well.
EDIT: Obito also just straight up says he merged with bro.
So yeah, I still think Juubi Jin Hagoromo should scale to 177 Exatons, personally.
Respectfully, I think I disagree with your interpretation here.
Naruto and Hagoromo's "sick states" don't have any less chakra than normal. In fact, they're perfectly healthy for the most part, and the amount of chakra they possess is the same. The only issue is that their chakra channels are clogged, rendering them unable to use chakra because it simply cannot flow through their body.
All the Ultra Particles do is amplify their existing chakra so much that it kinda forcibly unclogs their pathways and returns them back to normal. Kinda like increasing the pressure through a clogged pipe to unblock it. We know from this scan that the increase is around 2x, and we know from this other scan that the particles do provide a permanent boost to the recipient's power.
Like, this isn't something I actually care about if I'm being honest. I wasn't even aware of these particles until pretty recently, so it's not like I'm super invested in this topic. It's just that when looking at the evidence, I don't think your interpretation makes a lot of sense personally.
I assume you're referring to this here scan? Normally, I'd agree with your conclusion regarding this, but I don't think this is how it works for Juubi Jins.
Lemme give you an example.
Remember how SPSM Naruto was stated to be stronger than his previous Kurama Mode, and was shown to be relative to Madara? Aight, cool. SPSM + KCM Naruto is also on this level, obviously, but like a bit stronger since he competed with stronger versions of Madara. I think this is all stuff we can agree on.
So my thinking is that none of this would make sense if Juubi Jins functioned like normal Jins. If he was replacing his current chakra with that of the other Bijuu inside him, he'd end up being far weaker than Madara, since Madara had far more of those Bijuu's chakra. It's obvious that Naruto's using all of his chakra, and also amping it with his Bijuu chakra on top. Otherwise, there really would be no point to him using KCM at that point. He doesn't even need it to access the individual Bijuu's abilities.
Same thing could be said for Madara. He underwent a couple of amps, which wouldn't make sense if he didn't really use his total available power, and was simply just replacing it with the Juubi's power, which would be static.
We also sort of see this concept in action with Sasuke's Gedo Susano'o. Him absorbing the 9 Bijuu's chakra (essentially recreating the Juubi's chakra) massively amped the power of the Susano'o, which wouldn't work if he was, like, replacing the Susano'o original power with the Bijuu's or something (because he overpowered Naruto, who's beyond the Juubi on its own at that point). It's also worth noting that Kurama stated that what Sasuke did here was the exact opposite of what Hagoromo did in the past, meaning that prior to dispersing the Juubi's chakra within him, Hagoromo was conceptually similar to the Gedo Susano'o. It's probably why Kurama knew that the Susano'o that'd emerge would be something incredible.
Also, like, yeah I actually think they are merging with the Juubi tbh. It's clearly very unlike any other Bijuu/Jinchuriki relationship. It literally alters their physical make-up and appearance. Their skin becomes very similar to the Ten-Tails' hide. They literally physically absorb the damn thing. And it was repeatedly described as the Jinchuriki making the Juubi's power their own. And this was obviously likened to Hagoromo many times as well.
EDIT: Obito also just straight up says he merged with bro.
So yeah, I still think Juubi Jin Hagoromo should scale to 177 Exatons, personally.
I've more or less said all I wanted to say here. Probably won't comment here again for a little while. I guess ping me again if I'm really needed or sumn.
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@UchihaSlayer96 i need you
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Currently in agreement with Slayer in regards to Shin and New Era Sasuke’s scaling, although I am curious about potential counterarguments to the former. I also agree with his thoughts on the Hagoromo + Juubi stuff, neutral on the polar particles stuff.
MinatoSparkle
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Regarding Shin, it's also notable that Borushiki struggled against Base/3T Injured Rinnegone Sasuke, who if anything should be weaker than the Sasuke that fought Shin as he at least had the Rinnegan there even if it wasn't tomoed, and wasn't injured.
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If we scaling Shin what about kid Shin managing to hurt Shin in MS and such?
Also Shin couldn't penetrate Naruto's avatar head thing as shown below.
Also isn't caught off guard a thing in naruto? Just some examples I could find.
Also Shin couldn't penetrate Naruto's avatar head thing as shown below.
Also isn't caught off guard a thing in naruto? Just some examples I could find.
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MinatoSparkle
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He was injured, fatigued, and offguard
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So off guard is an appropriate use for that but not this one? Seems kinda sus and biased if you scaling shin offguarding Naruto and Co but not scaling Kid Shin.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
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Shin doesn't have a chakra cloak actively surrounding his body at all times, and Sasuke wasn't offguard when Shin's shuriken pierced him
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That "Avatar head thing" is way stronger than mostly anything Naruto has. It's the Jinchuuriki equivalent of a partial Susano'o.If we scaling Shin what about kid Shin managing to hurt Shin in MS and such?
Also Shin couldn't penetrate Naruto's avatar head thing as shown below.
Naruto had a Chakra cloak on, and roughly 3/5 of these are from characters who could harm each other anyway(remember that Kaguya has the bone zone), and the other ones can be explained. Sakura did no damage, she pushed Kaguya down by hitting her head from above. Shin had already been injured, and got stabbed with large piercing weapons by 6 guys at once.
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Kid Shin is just a Shin clone, he should be comparable to his "dad". We just don't talk about those clones because they don't have profiles, so they're irrelevant.
Also you do realize that Shin had every bone in his body crushed by the Susano'o at that point, right?
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Noone made a claim of him having a chakra cloak surrounding his body at all times but hey lets use that logic for the next bit you said.
Sasuke doesn't have a chakra cloak surrounding his body at all times when he threw himself onto his daughter to protect her and it's not like he stated that he was lacking on the chakra and eye powers.
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He mentioned injured, fatigued and off guard and you went ahead and took only the last part to suit you? Besides shin doesn't have a chakra cloak actively protecting him
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So comparable in stats to OG Shin okay? Also why not make a profile/tab on the Shin character page for them?
So why couldn't someone comparable to OG Shin manage to hurt a Naruto who wasn't using a chakra cloak who only grabbed the blade when their MS were active and proceeded to call out they stronger then OG Shin?
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Well shit I'll also use the fatigued too since guess what Sasuke was during the fight before that?
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Ok, that's two out of three.
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He literally has Kurama Chakra on his hand.
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