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Sealing Away Naruto's 5-B in a Chibaku Tensei
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You just made your account yesterday and you wanna send me paragraphs ignoring the past 4 pages of my arguments, go sit down somewhere
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Okay, so my issue with it is two-fold.
The first thing, at least from my pov, is just that we saw the feat in action and we have quantified it in the form of a calc. Now, fan calcs are not objective or anything, but at the same time, we're out here using them anyway so it's not like we have an issue with using calcs to quantify feats. Additionally, the reason that Hags and Hams' calc is as high as it is, at least as I understand it, is due to the KE of one (or both of them) pushing the moon into orbit. This is something that Naruto and Sasuke have not shown the capacity for, and more importantly haven't really done at all. Unlike Hagoromo, for example, who's shown to have some of the best TK in the verse with his ability to send meteors deeps into space and other ludicrous stuff like that.
Also, there technically is no real concrete indication that this SPCT is as powerful as the original. As in, there are no direct statements of that being the case. So it's not like the calc is contradicted by solid lore reasons, such as a direct statement.
The second thing is Hagoromo. You're right, there's nothing that says he got weaker. But there's nothing that says he's as strong as he once was either. What we do have is various in-verse examples of people growing very old, and in every case that I can personally think of, they declined with their advanced age. I'm mentioning this because we know Hagoromo removed the Bijuu from inside him and allowed himself to die of old age. The prime examples that come to mind are Hiruzen, Chiyo, Onoki, and more. And, I mean, it makes sense. People don't normally get stronger as they reach super advanced ages. Now, yes, Hagoromo is a chakra ghost in Part II, but we also saw through Hiruzen that people just sort of the same as when they died, as he was not revived in his prime. Same goes for Hagoromo since we saw that he's clearly old as hell.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should objectively treat Hags as weaker, but there's no logical reason for him to be as strong objectively speaking imo. So I don't feel that using his prime SPCT to scale to his old self's SPCT is the most solid thing, especially with my previous contentions in mind at least.
No, I'm aware of that. My point is that not all Ninjutsu draw out the same level of power from someone. Some Jutsu are just inherently more powerful than others no matter what. There's many examples, but the first one that came to mind is like how Mangekyo Sharingan Jutsu both take far more chakra and are far more powerful than regular Sharingan Jutsu by default. The argument you guys made would've worked a lot better back when chakra was a straight up UES, and things were a bit more loose, but now we're a lot more restricted in these regards. Not all Jutsu are created equally.
Also, I'm not even sure there's any real proof that Kaguya is, like, constantly pumping chakra into the ETSB the entire time. Similar to Chibaku Tensei, I feel like it's a technique that the user pumps out, and then it just continuously does its thing on its own.
I'm fine with that, but hold on a second. Wasn't the Star level thing removed originally because the ETSB is EE hax or something? I'm not sure what the argument was cause I think was on a break from the wiki then. It does sound kinda mid as an argument though, so whatever.
But yeah my point is that I'm cool with giving the ETSB an "At least 5-B, up to 4-C" type of treatment, as long as it's valid to do so.
Yeah, no, that's fair. I only suggested it because I thought the calc's been accepted for a long time.
No, that's fair. It's not "necessary" per se. It's more about fleshing out the scaling between people, so folks reading the profiles don't feel like Naruto and Sasuke are relative or whatever. It's a pretty common debate in the fandom, so I thought it worth briefly addressing in their justifications. But I'm fine with it either way.
Yeah, that's cool.
I'm still not convinced.
It's not as simple as any regular old OOC move. It's outright something that's not usable in any real combat situation. The Bijuu are not standard equipment for Sasuke, he can't pull them out of a hat whenever he wants. In the midst of a fight, Sasuke cannot just go around the world and hunt the Bijuu down. You run into a lot of random assumptions in this scenario such as Sasuke not knowing the Bijuu's individual current whereabouts. Like, for this to work, you'd deadass have to assume that he would conduct an Akatsuki like manhunt for the Bijuu, capture them, and absorb their chakra; all mid fight.
If your rebuke to what I just said is simply "Well, the OP in a VS thread can just specify that this hypothetical bloodlusted OOC Sasuke had already captured the Bijuu prior to the battle", then frankly, I don't see why that sort of scenario can't be done without it being indexed. OPs can literally make up whatever scenarios they want. I've seen some ridiculous shit being done in OPs before. I've seen people literally give characters entirely different physiologies for battles to work. This hypothetical, OOC, and implausible scenario not being indexed won't stop or hinder people from making their own random VS thread scenarios if they so choose.
What it will do, however, is not present this on the profile as something that Sasuke has access to. No matter how much you flesh out the weakness section with how implausible this scenario is, the average reader who doesn't even get to stuff like the weakness section and mostly goes over abilities, tiers, AP, and speed will gloss over this and be misled into thinking this is a viable, regular move of Sasuke's when it isn't.
I just don't see the value in indexing this, at all. To me it's the equivalent of indexing Adult Gaara possibly becoming Shukaku's Jinchuriki again. Sure, it's definitely possible for him, but that in and of itself does not offer any intrinsic value in indexing it IMO since it's nothing more than a fanfic scenario. It's plausible in-verse and has a precedent even, but it's just not something that's ever going to happen as far as we know.
Tbh, I kinda agree with Damage in the sense that we likely won't see eye to eye on this. So instead of going in circles, it'd probably be better to ask other staff for their opinions. I honestly don't have much more to say on this, anyhow.
I'm aware of this, which is why I said:
No, I understand that.
Okay, so to better explain what I mean, here's how I look at it. So with both the Lava RS and Guy examples I brought up, we have other instances of the attacks doing serious damage to people. Here are a couple of instances for the RS. And here's what happens when someone ain't tanky enough to take Guy's hits.
Yes, in at least two of those instances, the attack and/or its user were simply a lot stronger than the poor lad receiving it, but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. The fact that an injured, weaker Madara survived a point blank RS with nothing more than a gash in his torso implies to me that his durability isn't horribly far off of the RS's output. This is especially true for the stronger, more fresh versions of Madara we get later on. I also feel like Lava Release's heat should be taken into consideration, as it's not unlikely to have also contributed to the damage Madara received. Similar arguments could be made with the Sekizo thing. Guy even comments on its not being enough, but tbh I can definitely see this being a combination of endurance and durability, since the guy's spitting out blood. But I do find it interesting that he took less damage from Sekizo than his TSO, which is something we saw with other TSO users such as Obito and Toneri.
Anyway, I'm not too pressed about this, it doesn't actually matter all that much.
Also, you didn't give your opinion on the Light Fang thing, unless I missed it.
I'm okay with that, if there are no issues with it, cause I heard the 4-C rating was removed but I never bothered to check why tbh.
Bastolan27
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Haven't read this in weeks, is this going anywhere?
Bastolan27
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bruh
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Concession accepted via the burden of lazyness.Well Net said in vc you’re fine with the Kaguya stuff and I don’t care enough to read all that text so I’ll just concede cuz I’m lazy, someone else can do the Bible wars if they want
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Cool.Well Net said in vc you’re fine with the Kaguya stuff and I don’t care enough to read all that text so I’ll just concede cuz I’m lazy, someone else can do the Bible wars if they want
But I just wanna say that I'm fine with it as long as the reason the 4-C rating was originally removed is no longer an issue. I'm only speaking in vague terms because I don't actually know what that reason was, not fully at least, since I wasn't around.
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Yeah, that works then.
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Did I misunderstand or will Etso be 4C?
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It's 4-C overtime aka it's not combat applicable whatsoever, keep it in your pants
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What High 6-A feat?
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I think the blowing the whole in a moon
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Alright, I'm finished
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Oh man, all those mentions of the Rasengan Variants is gonna look super weird without mentioning them in the previous versions of Naruto who can use them.
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Sandbox is fine
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LOVING THIS.
However, here's the issue:
-Hamura's Tenseigan might refer to the big ball in the moon.
-Black Zetsu doesn't scale to Black Zetsu Obito
-I disagree with 6-C Sakura, but fair enough for now.
-Shin shouldn't scale that low. He pierced a Chakra cloak from Kurama twice, and through Naruto as well.
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Yeah that's fine, doesn't contradict anything
Idrc about Zetsu scaling but that's what's accepted on his profile so i literally copy pasted it
Real, Sakura is gonna get an upgrade with the Last base Naruto upgrade thread coming after this, so dont fret
He can prolly scale to Sakura, which will prolly be handled when that the Last base Naruto upgrade thread drops
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star level giant black balls
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go back to nasu, we dont do that here
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he doesnt know
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Insert obligatory Raikage meme
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o
oh no.
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Daemon justification made me chuckle. Man codes a bitch
KaydeeX
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Someone brought to my attention that since naruto was separated from kurama in his fight with toneri he should scale 2x at full power. Does this make sense?
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When is it applied to profiles?
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Just because a portion of his chakra is separated from him doesn't necessarily mean the AP of his jutsu is halved. It's not like shinobi are putting all of their chakra into every single attack.
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This is not a portion of his chakra. This is kurama. Kurama has Comparable ap to him so together their power should be doubled.
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From the description in the novel it doesn't seem like a shadow clone tbh and we never saw him do the hand sign.
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From the description in the novel it doesn't seem like a shadow clone tbh and we never saw him do the hand sign.
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