So comparable in stats to OG Shin okay? Also why not make a profile/tab on the Shin character page for them?
So why couldn't someone comparable to OG Shin manage to hurt a Naruto who wasn't using a chakra cloak who only grabbed the blade when their MS were active and proceeded to call out they stronger then OG Shin?
Better then 1 out of three but hey if you don't have anything else to add.
Would you expect anything else?
Why would MS control weapons scale when they couldn't do shit in the first place and had to off-guard Naruto?
Mind showing when and were he amps him durability and why shin doesn't?
Borushiki was worried about absorbing chakra iirc and that was it.
Good point.
One of them literally stabbed Naruto? That's the whole reason this debate is even taking place lmao. Naruto being off-guard is something I already addressed.
Cool . You are still missing the injured part.
Thanks I make them quite offten.
Wait you mean the one where he's staring at Sasuke attacking him? Truly is an off-guard moment /s
So like off guard makes the shining orange chakra around naruto protecting him turn to paint or wall level?
It's solid Chakra, which is the only thing in the series to break a kunai.
Well, I would be more convinced if this didn't happen 2 pages beforehand, which conveniently is ignored but hey Shin's MS ability can't pierce Naruto's chakra head thing but magically can scale when Sasuke inside with Naruto allows Shin to surprise/off-guard him.
You do realize the Kurama Avatar scales above Naruto's physicals, right? And he's used it as a forcefield to protect himself against attacks from comparable opponents many times in the past.Well, I would be more convinced if this didn't happen 2 pages beforehand, which conveniently is ignored but hey Shin's MS ability can't pierce Naruto's chakra head thing but magically can scale when Sasuke inside with Naruto allows Shin to surprise/off-guard him.
Or? Hear me out, naruto avatar form has higher durability than just his cloak form? Makes sense right? It's like also on his profile "higher with kurama avatar"Well, I would be more convinced if this didn't happen 2 pages beforehand, which conveniently is ignored but hey Shin's MS ability can't pierce Naruto's chakra head thing but magically can scale when Sasuke inside with Naruto allows Shin to surprise/off-guard him.
Kurama Avatar > Chakra CloakWell, I would be more convinced if this didn't happen 2 pages beforehand, which conveniently is ignored but hey Shin's MS ability can't pierce Naruto's chakra head thing but magically can scale when Sasuke inside with Naruto allows Shin to surprise/off-guard him.
So how does Shin manage to contend in the first place with MS controlled weapons? Why don't you make a guess?
Sasuke needed Susano'o to fight the Kurama Avatar, so he must not be able to fight KM Naruto.Well, I would be more convinced if this didn't happen 2 pages beforehand, which conveniently is ignored but hey Shin's MS ability can't pierce Naruto's chakra head thing but magically can scale when Sasuke inside with Naruto allows Shin to surprise/off-guard him.
So how does Shin manage to contend in the first place with MS controlled weapons? Why don't you make a guess?
Uh...This isn't something specific to Sasuke, it's part of all ninja that's literally where their ultra high durability comes from...In the novel it's referred to as battle spirit.
No. Sasuke:
You kinda implied it with this.Uh...This isn't something specific to Sasuke, it's part of all ninja that's literally where their ultra high durability comes from...In the novel it's referred to as battle spirit.
So hurting/matching a dude who's already fatigued/tired/almost out of chakra means scaling to a 100% version of them?No. Sasuke:
- Knocked Borushiki away
- Hurt him with Chidori
- Made Borushiki admit a head on fight would be difficult and result in him receiving damage
- Withstood Vanishing Rasengan
Cause Shin is not actively fighting
Literally the opposite??? My point is that Shin can fight 3T Fatigued Rinnegan Sasuke who's >Base/3T Injured Fatigued No Rinnegan Sasuke who can fight Borushiki. AKA Shin scales on some level to Borushiki (though idt that Borushiki is as strong as the one that fought Kawaki and Code, he should still be exceptionally powerful given that it's literally Momoshiki taking over Boruto).
Yeah sure I'm fine with dropping the disagreement on Shin, UsseySlayer can summarize or someone else can cause I got no clue on what needs to be summarized, minus the Shika stuff
Each KA clone is relative to the original in AP (much like how Nard's regular clones are comparable to him in AP), so I guess fusion logic still applies? It's not like each KA avatar that's fused is just 1/3rd as powerful as the original.
It's because each clone is physically identical to the original. So while the Asura Avatar (without NE) has the same amount of chakra as the original KA, the logic here is that it's physically 3x as strong as the fusion of 3 physically comparable entities. That's what Arc had in mind, more or less IIRC.
Those are wood clones, which consume way more Chakra, and Madara has a lower maximum than Naruto.
Is that stated anywhere? If anything, it should be the opposite since Wood Clones are noted to be significantly weaker than the original with most of his power concentrated in his real body. Not sure what Madara has to do with anything?
Not really for Hashirama? The only time he's shown fatigue after using Wood Style was when he used Shinsuu Senju, which is GARGANTUALLY more chakra consuming than just making a few Wood Clones.
I was speaking in comparison to Shadow Clones.
You'd think shadow clones would be worse for the user while the shadow clones are active since those actually split your chakra in equal pieces with your own, meaning that for example when you have 2 clones active, you only have a third of your normal chakra supply to work with, but with the Hashirama Wood Clones example, they don't have as much chakra and a majority of it was concentrated in Hashirama's real body, yet the jutsu STILL weakened his real body.
I keep forgetting Hashirama was just goated at everything except Genjutsu.
In part 1 he has a genjutsu that induces blindness
Or am I thinking of Striking Strength?
Ah okay.
I'll try.
I'm not really sure this comparison works, with Sasuke and base Naruto I mean. Sasuke failed to harm Fused Momo in that instance, but it's not like Naruto managed to do so either. He just matched his AP. It works well enough to say that this makes base Naruto superior to Darui, though, since Momo's AP wrecked his ass. But Sasuke didn't interact with Momo in terms of AP here, so I don't find this justification the best. I think you should just mention that he briefly matched Momoshiki, which makes him superior to Darui.
I feel like it'd be worth mentioning here that his Chō Ōdama Rasengan was able to one-shot both Fused Momoshiki and Delta.
Question. Are you sort of including the Kurama Avatar with "Kurama Six Paths Sage Mode"? If so, then I think you should include the fact that it's considered Naruto's full power somewhere. It's also the main reason for him scaling above the 2x Rasengan variant stuff. That's not super relevant for Adult Nard since he scales to 2x his base via Fused Momo scaling regardless, but it's a nice piece of support, and could be relevant for Naruto's previous versions.
So, sorry, I know this ain't New Era, but I do have an argument I want to share for base Sasuke.
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you didn't include these feats for Sasuke? At the least, I feel like his Kusanagi Blade and Ninjutsu should scale to SPSM Naruto's tier, which would be consistent with both their previous keys, and also their portrayal as rivals overall.
Okay, so the first bit goes for both Momo and Kin.
You can tweak that wording however you like, but the point is that nothing in those scans really confirms or indicates that Kaguya feared these guys individually. All of the statements refer to them as a duo. This also makes more sense with the fact that Adult Naruto and Sasuke still consider Kaguya a formidable opponent, and the whole reason they even considered the duo's arrival a threat was the potential of them being threats to her in the first place.
Ngl, I'm not seeing at all how Shikamaru implies that Isshiki being stronger than Code is uncertain. Is it just his usage of the word "should"? The thing is, Shikamaru is not an authority on any of these people's powers in the first place. He doesn't know how powerful either of them actually are. The only things he really knows for sure is that Jigen defeated NaruSasu, Isshiki's stronger than Jigen (and also beat NaruSasu), and that Code's power surpasses Jigen's. I don't think he's in any position to be an authority on Isshiki vs Code IMO.
So a couple of things.
Ehhhhh, I'm honestly iffy about this being used to scale Jigen above the MAS. There's no reason to assume Koji even knows about the MAS, and given the fact that Naruto and Sasuke already pushed Jigen to his absolute limit and had moments where they seemed to be genuine threats to him, somewhat survive his attacks, etc, makes me a bit doubtful about Jigen being above the MAS. Much like Shikamaru, Koji isn't an authority on Naruto and Sasuke, and he was mostly hypothesizing here.
Sounds great.
Clutter is kinda unavoidable with Nard, dude has a lot going on no matter what. I think this bit's pretty relevant tho. Him being to one-shot physical rivals with an attack is a big deal imo.
So you agree with adding that bit to the justification...?
Same thing as above, I can do it, just not now.
It honestly feels like you skimmed through that album I sent. It has more examples than him sending others flying, as others like Sparkle and Lightning have mentioned earlier. Sasuke has a lot of higher end portrayal and feats.
Okay, sure, but I don't agree with your conclusion regarding the "intent" there either. I don't think the point of that piece of dialogue was to throw doubt regarding Isshiki's superiority to Code, I think the intent is to reinforce that idea if nothing else.
Meh, I don't fully agree, but tbh I don't care enough about this rn to debate it further.
No, Arc. Like, Isshiki doesn't have a SS and durability section AT ALL, lol.
These bits belong in the P&A section if I'm not mistaken. I think it was decided a while back that Dura Neg and Immortality/Regen stuff should no longer be put in the AP or Dura sections anymore.
Tbh, I still disagree with Koji scaling this high, for essentially the same reasons that were brought up in the last Koji thread by Nierre and others, but it's whatever. If everyone's okay with it, I can live with it for now.
Regarding Shin using his MS ability to have Sasuke's sword stab through SPSM KCM Naruto, I'm not entirely sure this works.
