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SCP God-Tier Revisions, Part ╬ÿ'-4 ÒÇîUpgradesÒÇì

@Dargoo

Thing is, from my understanding, 3125 doesn't just mindhax things from afar. The mindhax is just it intersecting with the universe. And it does that via sheer size.

So if 3125 can affect higher narratives, it likely means that it's even bigger than them.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
@Dargoo

Thing is, from my understanding, 3125 doesn't just mindhax things from afar. The mindhax is just it intersecting with the universe. And it does that via sheer size.

So if 3125 can affect higher narratives, it likely means that it's even bigger than them.
Click to expand...

3125 is a living meme or idea, and spreads much like any other in-verse memes. Even prior to it intersecting the main reality, people who entertained the idea of it were afflicted with the same symptoms, it's just that intersecting with the reality meant that it could forcibly affect and enter everything in it.

Considering that memes have demonstrably affected higher narratives before (even as early as Swann, it was entertained as an idea), I don't see why it spreading like any other meme wouldn't allow it to affect intelligences on higher narrative layers without overlapping with them.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Saikou The Lewd King said:
@Dargoo

Thing is, from my understanding, 3125 doesn't just mindhax things from afar. The mindhax is just it intersecting with the universe. And it does that via sheer size.

So if 3125 can affect higher narratives, it likely means that it's even bigger than them.
Click to expand...
3125 is a living meme or idea, and spreads much like any other in-verse memes. Even prior to it intersecting the main reality, people who entertained the idea of it were afflicted with the same symptoms, it's just that intersecting with the reality meant that it could forcibly affect and enter everything in it.

Considering that memes have demonstrably affected higher narratives before (even as early as Swann, it was entertained as an idea), I don't see why it spreading like any other meme wouldn't allow it to affect intelligences on higher narrative layers without overlapping with them.
Click to expand...
3125 isn't just one meme. It's an entire malignant ecology, one of such size it's flat-out considered to be an omniversal-scale threat. What the Foundation has been fighting thus far may as well be the equivalent of a toenail.

This is the reason why despite a lot of memetic/antimemetic anomalies being tied to it, it's difficult to recognize them as such because they all differ so greatly, to the point they seem disconnected entirely.
 
@Auru I can't see how that supports or goes against Dargoo's point. Which is simply that memes may be able to be a threat to higher narratives without physically reaching them. Meaning that 3125 would stay Unknown but would have 1-A mind manip/etc.
 
Agnaa said:
@Auru I can't see how that supports or goes against Dargoo's point. Which is simply that memes may be able to be a threat to higher narratives without physically reaching them. Meaning that 3125 would stay Unknown but would have 1-A mind manip/etc.
Click to expand...
The wording involving 3125 is pretty clear that it's a direct threat to all of those realities. There's no "might" or "may be" here. It's incarnating now, with the majority of the other antimemtic entities the Foundation faces either stemming from it, or trying to hide away from it, parts of a much greater ecology steadily incurring into every reality it can, even higher narratives. That's the point being made here.

Honestly speaking, I see no reason why it can't be placed in an actual tier. That alone would be enough.
 
It's a threat, but if this threat is merely antimemetic hax, then it doesn't apply to tier, since tiering is based off of physical destruction.
 
>It's a threat, but if this threat is merely antimemetic hax

It isn't? I have no idea why this would be what you think. 3125 is perfectly capable of destructive abilities or manifesting extensions of itself capable of such. But it doesn't need to. Merely intersecting with realities is enough to pretty much wholly annihilate them, as they're crushed beneath its bulk.

If you're asking for it to be doing anything more "physical" than that, then you won't have much luck. 3125 isn't any kind of conventional fighter, at all. It's a debatably sapient malignant omniversal ecology. It's like asking an Amaranth to start punching and kicking someone. It's a nonsensical notion.
 
...Don't we know that Amaranth created stuff?

And yes, characters do need to show destructive capacity to get tiers. To quote Dargoo...

Considering that memes have demonstrably affected higher narratives before (even as early as Swann, it was entertained as an idea), I don't see why it spreading like any other meme wouldn't allow it to affect intelligences on higher narrative layers without overlapping with them.
Do you have any evidence either that:

  • 3125 can't affect higher narratives without intersecting with them. Or that
  • 3125's threat to higher realities extends beyond just antimemetic effects, and is actually reflected with physical presence/destruction?
 
>.Don't we know that Amaranth created stuff?

They do it entirely unconsciously. Amaranth are no longer in any way sentient.

As for what Dargo said, it was based on an inherent misunderstanding of the scope and scale of 3125 as an entity.

  • 3125 can't affect higher narratives without intersecting with them. Or that
  • 3125's threat to higher realities extends beyond just antimemetic effects, and is actually reflected with physical presence/destruction?
Fifthdation is a thing, and is the closest we have come to getting any actual detail for what happens when the Starfish/Fifth World/3125 actually properly encroaches on a universe. Spoilers: The universe ceases to be and dissolves into the utter madness making up 3125's bulk, with only specially hermetically sealed remaining to float amongst the infinite nothingness (which can still be casually breached by any entity now that 3125 is truly present, they only protect for as long as 3125 is barely touching on the victim cosmos), ala Rat's Nest.

As for higher realities, with Wild Light, it's fair to say that the same thing happening in both the rest of the hub and Fifthdation happens to those narratives as well.
 
They do it entirely unconsciously. Amaranth are no longer in any way sentient.

Still applicable to AP my dude.

Fifthdation is a thing, and is the closest we have come to getting any actual detail for what happens when the Starfish/Fifth World/3125 actually properly encroaches on a universe.

I've read this tale and I'm pretty sure 2747's the one that destroys the universe.
 
>Still applicable to AP my dude.

If they are, then there really shouldn't be any problem here. Neither the Amaranth nor 3125 engage in any standard conventional conflict. Not only would it not make sense for them to do so, they also aren't intelligent enough to do so.

>I've read this tale and I'm pretty sure 2747's the one that destroys the universe.

I'd advise a reread. 2747 only gets summoned after 3125 has already reduced everything to nothingness. The specific statement is:

>Outside was nothing but a void of colorless green and bright pink, mixing together into eldritch abominations that could only exist in the Fifth World. The room Frederick stood in was the only trace of what was before. Despite his status as a hopeless reminder to no one of a forgotten world, Frederick took solace in the one thing that could counter SCP-3125.

The universe was already done for long before 2747 appeared. 2747 just resulted in the Fifth World getting "skipped over" and a new 'Seventh World' taking its place.
 
If they are, then there really shouldn't be any problem here. Neither the Amaranth nor 3125 engage in any standard conventional conflict. Not only would it not make sense for them to do so, they also aren't intelligent enough to do so.

Incorrect.

The Amaranth doesn't engage in standard conventional conflict, but has created stuff. Even though it was created unconsciously, this still scales to AP. While mindhax doesn't.

The universe was already done for long before 2747 appeared. 2747 just resulted in the Fifth World getting "skipped over" and a new 'Seventh World' taking its place.

Ahh right, 3125's probably good to have 1-A AP then, if no other counterarguments are brought up.
 
>The Amaranth doesn't engage in standard conventional conflict, but has created stuff. Even though it was created unconsciously, this still scales to AP. While mindhax doesn't.

An Amaranth's creation abilities are basically someone bieng stuck in a perma-coma that takes from some aspects of their previous life. There's no actual guiding mind behind it all or anything.

Also, I'm fairly certain 3125 isn't limited to mindhax. It's capable of erasure and creation (much of Unthreaded features unknown structures popping up all over the world), and pretty much all of the Fifthist articles involve it by extension. So the Vorehole, the Kaiju Sea, that one self-help book that literally enabled people to snuff out stars, that corrupted Spongebob episode and a staggering number of other things can all be traced back to it.
 
An Amaranth's creation abilities are basically someone bieng stuck in a perma-coma that takes from some aspects of their previous life. There's no actual guiding mind behind it all or anything.

Again, none of this matters. Whether the AP is guided or not, controlled or not, conscious or not, it's still AP.
 
I'm fairly certain that containment report is more than a little iffy considering these recent reveals, though I wouldn't say it's a whole retcon. The report likely wasn't written by Hughes or had any involvement with him (or if it did, they purposefully removed all the more depressive and crushing info from it). So we can just assume they were referring to the facet(s) of 3125 that they were aware of.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Sad boi hours for everyone that wanted a stronger The All-Mightyƒÿ¡
Click to expand...
well, you're not wrong. personally i want SCP Gods like He-Who-Made-Light (HWML) and He-Who-Made-Dark (HWMD) and above be High 1-B or Low 1-A or higher, but that wont happen, at least for now.
 
I'm reading the tale series right now. While we're making these changes to 3125's profile, it should have its "Possibly Conceptual Manipulation" changed to straight up concept manip - 3125's article says it will cause the abstract concepts of "humanity", "family", "civilization", etc. to stop existing.
 
I've briefly talked with Agnaa off-site about this, and if the following quote is true:

Fifthdation is a thing, and is the closest we have come to getting any actual detail for what happens when the Starfish/Fifth World/3125 actually properly encroaches on a universe. Spoilers: The universe ceases to be and dissolves into the utter madness making up 3125's bulk, with only specially hermetically sealed remaining to float amongst the infinite nothingness (which can still be casually breached by any entity now that 3125 is truly present, they only protect for as long as 3125 is barely touching on the victim cosmos), ala Rat's Nest.

Then I don't see any problem with 3125 being 1-A, assuming it can conceptually assimilate higher narratives just as it can do so to regular universes as described there. Though then again, I may be wrong and don't mind being corrected here.
 
I talked to Aeyu off-site and she seems to think that "At least Low 1-A" is a better rating for 3125, since it only seems to affect the main narrative and the universe that embeds it rather than transcending it. Since the main narrative's only Low 1-A, this should only be a Low 1-A feat.

I'm not sure anymore on where I stand on the rating, but I'm leaving this opinion here for consideration.
 
Agnaa said:
I talked to Aeyu off-site and she seems to think that "At least Low 1-A" is a better rating for 3125, since it only seems to affect the main narrative and the universe that embeds it rather than transcending it. Since the main narrative's only Low 1-A, this should only be a Low 1-A feat.
I'm not sure anymore on where I stand on the rating, but I'm leaving this opinion here for consideration.
Click to expand...
It mentions universes. Plural. And specifically notes that said universes embed the Foundation's as fiction. As some others on the actual site have pointed out, this is a clear reference to Swan. Not even mentioning the whole "microverses" and "macroverses" bit.

It's at least 1-A, in all likelihood.
 
"Microverses", "macroverses", and "omniversal" are all buzzwords with no meaning for how we tier it.

But I'll relay the plural part.
 
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