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Scarlet Witch should be at least 2-A, in House of M
- Thread starter Soratoum
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Shivansh I know those are simply feats and scans but be careful with Omniverse.
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I think some of these are pretty self-explanatory, such as "Chaos Manipulation" and "Flight".
Levitation, Physics Manipulation, Teleportation, Portal Creation and similar
Duplication
Clairvoyance
Soul Manipulation
Matter Manipulation
Superhuman Physical Characteristics (unfazed by Captain America's shield)
Superhuman Speed (able to notice and pin down Quicksilver), also caught Mjolnir with hexes, also fought/reacted to Thor (and beat him). This scan should also prove that she can Time Stop/Time Manipulate since she stopped time. She also reacted to Dark Phoenix who is MFTL+
BFR(forgot to add this one on that list)
Power Nullification - Well, "No more mutants" nullified powers of others.
Pocket Reality Manipulation - At the start of House of M, she created a pocket reality, which she could manipulate.
Telepathy/Mind Manipulation/Mind Control - Was able to shut down minds of X-Men, including the likes of Emma Frost and Magneto.
Precognition - Has auto-shields.
Energy/Element Manipulation - I think it's pretty obvious. She manipulates Chaos Magic and was able to turn Thor's lighting into butterflies.. This scan also shows how she reacted to Thor almost hammering her to death.
Levitation, Physics Manipulation, Teleportation, Portal Creation and similar
Duplication
Clairvoyance
Soul Manipulation
Matter Manipulation
Superhuman Physical Characteristics (unfazed by Captain America's shield)
Superhuman Speed (able to notice and pin down Quicksilver), also caught Mjolnir with hexes, also fought/reacted to Thor (and beat him). This scan should also prove that she can Time Stop/Time Manipulate since she stopped time. She also reacted to Dark Phoenix who is MFTL+
BFR(forgot to add this one on that list)
Power Nullification - Well, "No more mutants" nullified powers of others.
Pocket Reality Manipulation - At the start of House of M, she created a pocket reality, which she could manipulate.
Telepathy/Mind Manipulation/Mind Control - Was able to shut down minds of X-Men, including the likes of Emma Frost and Magneto.
Precognition - Has auto-shields.
Energy/Element Manipulation - I think it's pretty obvious. She manipulates Chaos Magic and was able to turn Thor's lighting into butterflies.. This scan also shows how she reacted to Thor almost hammering her to death.
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Darkness Manipulation - This doesn't have to be on her list, but it can due to her being able to manipulate Chaos Magic, which basically Darkness Manipulation.
Longevity - Since she's a witch, she was shown to be capable to resist ageing
Power Bestowal - She's been able to give back powers to some mutants after HoM incident.
Existence Erasure/Astral Projection/Dimensional and Cosmic Awareness - I think it's pretty obvious,
I don't know if I forgot some.
Longevity - Since she's a witch, she was shown to be capable to resist ageing
Power Bestowal - She's been able to give back powers to some mutants after HoM incident.
Existence Erasure/Astral Projection/Dimensional and Cosmic Awareness - I think it's pretty obvious,
I don't know if I forgot some.
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Thoughts on this?Shivansh Garg said:
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I've already seen that scan, but I'm not sure because Hank himself is not sure. It's a speculation from a character, not a statement from an omniscient narrator. Do you have proof that she indeed wiped out every mutant in the "omniverse"?
It was said in the second scan that she warped all reality, which is true, she did warp all of 616 reality.
It was said in the second scan that she warped all reality, which is true, she did warp all of 616 reality.
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I went to bed before reading Sandman's reply lol
Anyways Hank's conclusion is based on extensive research, and his journey across different Universes
Given his research with Stephen combined with his statement about her wiping out mutants from all reality, (which can refer to anything, but most certainly refers to more than Prime Universe), I would say she is pretty concretely above 2-C
Anyways Hank's conclusion is based on extensive research, and his journey across different Universes
Given his research with Stephen combined with his statement about her wiping out mutants from all reality, (which can refer to anything, but most certainly refers to more than Prime Universe), I would say she is pretty concretely above 2-C
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I'm not saying that the method he used to gather his data is faulty, or that Hank is unreliable. It's just that the "omniverse" conclusion you've been pushing for is a speculation of Hank so I would like some proof that she indeed wiped out the mutant race from the entire "omniverse".
And that stuff about the mutants being removed from future timelines. The thing is that they are future timelines, they are the path that history may take, it just mean that there's no future that mutant exists not that all mutants has been erased from all alternate universes.
And that stuff about the mutants being removed from future timelines. The thing is that they are future timelines, they are the path that history may take, it just mean that there's no future that mutant exists not that all mutants has been erased from all alternate universes.
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You do know that Omniverse is endless right? There is no way for Hank to know if mutants exist in all other Universes or not. He did his research and eventually found that he couldn't find mutants anywhere so he came to conclude that she might have erased them from all of space and time.
Also, while your second para is right, the first scan from Hank does proves that mutants from every Universe were erased, those that already existed and the yet-to-be
Also, while your second para is right, the first scan from Hank does proves that mutants from every Universe were erased, those that already existed and the yet-to-be
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@Sandman I am not saying that any of the scans on their own confirm the feat, but putting all things together is what ends up in that conclusion
@Ant That is because Phoenix Force reversed the affects of M-Day. Which brings me to another important point. If the mutants in those futures were supposed to get their powers back eventually, why did they lost powers in the first place? This means Wanda's spell was Trans temporal and she did wiped out mutant gene from every Universe (both already existing ones and the future ones)
@Ant That is because Phoenix Force reversed the affects of M-Day. Which brings me to another important point. If the mutants in those futures were supposed to get their powers back eventually, why did they lost powers in the first place? This means Wanda's spell was Trans temporal and she did wiped out mutant gene from every Universe (both already existing ones and the future ones)
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I mean, possibly 2-A should be better, because of two reasons
1) She 'possibly' warped the Omniverse
2) She did instantly depowered mutants from all timelines, because if it was a result of her depowering mutants in present, then those future mutants would've retained their powers as the Phoenix Force eventually reversed the affects of M-Day
1) She 'possibly' warped the Omniverse
2) She did instantly depowered mutants from all timelines, because if it was a result of her depowering mutants in present, then those future mutants would've retained their powers as the Phoenix Force eventually reversed the affects of M-Day
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that "omniversal" Chaos Wave happened right after she said "No more mutants". If so, this might be proof enough. Jaspers seems to have been reborn before she said that and before Chaos Wave emerged from Earth-616, and right here on this scan it says that omniverse was swept by a temporal wave and that it re-arranged the whole omniverse.
Also, I've sent that scan where the official Marvel website treated House of M as an omniversal warp, since it said that Wanda re-imagined the entire Marvel Universe (notice that "Universe" is in uppercase letter, and they never use that, unless they mean the entirety of Marvel, aka omniverse.)
Plus, there's that scan about Beast/Hank McCoy, that @Shivansh sent, and him speaking about that warp being omniversal.
Also, we have this, Doctor Doom, who had the chance to experience the power of the Beyonder, said that Life Force, which possessed the Scarlet Witch during House of M, was more powerful than Beyonder.
And the last one is more related to Chthon, who gave Scarlet Witch her powers. Now, what's interesting about this one is that it's stated that Chthon lives outside of space and time, just like Mr. Mxyzptlk does, and he has a rating "High 2-A". We never really found out how much of Chthon's powers was given to Scarlet Witch, and there's no upper limit, therefore, it's quite possible that her warp was at least worthy of "2-A" rating, if not higher.
Also, I've sent that scan where the official Marvel website treated House of M as an omniversal warp, since it said that Wanda re-imagined the entire Marvel Universe (notice that "Universe" is in uppercase letter, and they never use that, unless they mean the entirety of Marvel, aka omniverse.)
Plus, there's that scan about Beast/Hank McCoy, that @Shivansh sent, and him speaking about that warp being omniversal.
Also, we have this, Doctor Doom, who had the chance to experience the power of the Beyonder, said that Life Force, which possessed the Scarlet Witch during House of M, was more powerful than Beyonder.
And the last one is more related to Chthon, who gave Scarlet Witch her powers. Now, what's interesting about this one is that it's stated that Chthon lives outside of space and time, just like Mr. Mxyzptlk does, and he has a rating "High 2-A". We never really found out how much of Chthon's powers was given to Scarlet Witch, and there's no upper limit, therefore, it's quite possible that her warp was at least worthy of "2-A" rating, if not higher.
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Yes, it happened after the House of M event, wanda was the one responsible for the Chaos Wave but it didnt came from her own power, she messed with 616 and rift in space-time appeared.
That's a pretty big assumption, the House of M has always been referred to as only covering reality 616 and Marvel Universe can just also refer to 616 which is Marvel's Prime Continuity
Doctor Doom is Low 2-C
We're not going to rate Cthon as High 2-A because he lives outside of space and time, lot of non High 2-A characters also do. Mxy is High 2-A because he's a 5th Dimensional Imp
I thought we already agreed that Cthon has nothing to do with HoM, why bring it up again?
That's a pretty big assumption, the House of M has always been referred to as only covering reality 616 and Marvel Universe can just also refer to 616 which is Marvel's Prime Continuity
Doctor Doom is Low 2-C
We're not going to rate Cthon as High 2-A because he lives outside of space and time, lot of non High 2-A characters also do. Mxy is High 2-A because he's a 5th Dimensional Imp
I thought we already agreed that Cthon has nothing to do with HoM, why bring it up again?
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Doctor Doom, without LF or Beyonders, is not Low 2-C, but with Life Force, he is much higher than that.
Umm... isn't the definition of being 5th dimensional, to live outside of "time and space". By that logic, Chthon is also fifth dimensional, they just don't express it the same way as that do to Mxy.
Chthon is to "blame" for giving Wanda powers, so he's indirectly responsible.
Umm... isn't the definition of being 5th dimensional, to live outside of "time and space". By that logic, Chthon is also fifth dimensional, they just don't express it the same way as that do to Mxy.
Chthon is to "blame" for giving Wanda powers, so he's indirectly responsible.
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Mxy does the same thing actually, he just lives outside of 4-D spacetime. He naturally has the power to affect 3D beings like flat characters, only Chthon, unlike Mxy, isn't a whymsical fourth-wall breaker and a cartoonish character, but he's an actual demon, who couldn't care less about being funny, so that's the reason they don't usually mention his "true" power.
And Chthon was able to fight Eternity (let's assume it was a regular Eternity), with only 1% of his powers, and with a human host. Eternity is 2-C and possibly higher, since it was very well established that Cosmic Cubes are inferior to Eternity, and they are rated as "2-C, likely 2-A" on this website (when it comes to Incomplete Cubes), and he has been called multiversal cancer, quite a few times.
And Chthon was able to fight Eternity (let's assume it was a regular Eternity), with only 1% of his powers, and with a human host. Eternity is 2-C and possibly higher, since it was very well established that Cosmic Cubes are inferior to Eternity, and they are rated as "2-C, likely 2-A" on this website (when it comes to Incomplete Cubes), and he has been called multiversal cancer, quite a few times.
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He was causing an infection within Eternity. He was not fighting the latter in a contest of raw power. Also, I don't remember anything of 1% of his power being mentioned while possessing Quicksilver.
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Chthon is a different case altogether. Similarly I do agree sentient cosmic cubes are solid 2-As, but that is a different topic for another thread. As of now,
1)Yes, all reality is a vague term, but the context clearly confirms Stephen is referring to all Universes
2)The mutants were wiped out from all futures (the child they are talking about is Hope Summers, who had a relation with Phoenix Force), and this isn't a cause and effect thing given if that was the case, mutants would've never lost their powers as Phoenix Force fixed the damage done on M-Day. Let me explain with an example, imagine if I kill a man this year, his son who is supposed to be born in 2030 will automatically get erased. Now if the man is destined to be revived next year, he son will remain unaffected in the future, unless I destroy/erase him myself this very year along with his father
That is what Wanda did here at the end of House of M with her "No more mutants" spell, whose range would scale to her attack potency as the spell rewrote reality
1)Yes, all reality is a vague term, but the context clearly confirms Stephen is referring to all Universes
2)The mutants were wiped out from all futures (the child they are talking about is Hope Summers, who had a relation with Phoenix Force), and this isn't a cause and effect thing given if that was the case, mutants would've never lost their powers as Phoenix Force fixed the damage done on M-Day. Let me explain with an example, imagine if I kill a man this year, his son who is supposed to be born in 2030 will automatically get erased. Now if the man is destined to be revived next year, he son will remain unaffected in the future, unless I destroy/erase him myself this very year along with his father
That is what Wanda did here at the end of House of M with her "No more mutants" spell, whose range would scale to her attack potency as the spell rewrote reality
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