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Sans vs Mami Tomoe
- Thread starter Kaltias
- Start date
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Uh... Mami for reasons above?
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If you really need votes, probably sans due teleportation of both himself and his opponents and him being able to see souls, thus he'd know her soul is the gem.
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And? He could just teleport her into the path of his incoming attacks.
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Mami for reasons above.
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@Jman Mami has attack reflection
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That's fine, can she reflect 22 attacks at once that bypass dura? Especially since she doesn't know where they're coming from due to the fact both the attacks and herself can easily be teleported sporadically.
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Frisk was also killed by Sans a vast amount of times, Mami doesn't have like a thousand attempts here. Saying she could dodge like frisk dud, when Frisk had an infinite amount of tries and actually was straight up killed isn't the best example.
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@Jma With her reflection, barriers and ribbon cloning, I would say most likely. And the same thing can be said for Sans, he can either get caught in a field of ribbons, go for the attack and Mami explodes into ribbons, get a storm of bullets sent down on him or gets caught in the explosion of Tiro Finale (if she's in safe enough distance were she won't kill herself.)
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I say Mami is more likely to take it for the reasons above.
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He can teleport himself too, which is helpful in avoiding attacks obviously, plus he can teleport the attacks themselves too.
Plus that doesn't counter the fact sans can teleport mami herself into crossfire.
Plus that doesn't counter the fact sans can teleport mami herself into crossfire.
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She just needs to keep her head on the game.
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See that's the thing, Tiro finale? He could just put her in the epicenter and just teleport himself away.
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Fair enough, but I'm just saying Mami has more of a chance, especialy with her ribbon+cloning, attack refelctions and barrier creation.
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Doesn't Sans' teleportation reach kilometers at That? Pretty sure it has a large range, he can easily teleport away and teleport her into the attack.
I see Sans having a better chance, teleport helps him avoiding to get tagged by attacks, he can teleport her (into attacks no less) and even teleport his/her attacks themselves.
Barrier creation I don't think would help against things that can bypass Tier 2 dura but oh well.
Plus this is ignoring he could likely just teleport the gem to himself and crack it like an egg, wouldnt be too hard to figure out, i mean he can see the body has no soul but the gem does? Doesn't take a genius to figure out what the weak point is
I see Sans having a better chance, teleport helps him avoiding to get tagged by attacks, he can teleport her (into attacks no less) and even teleport his/her attacks themselves.
Barrier creation I don't think would help against things that can bypass Tier 2 dura but oh well.
Plus this is ignoring he could likely just teleport the gem to himself and crack it like an egg, wouldnt be too hard to figure out, i mean he can see the body has no soul but the gem does? Doesn't take a genius to figure out what the weak point is
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Doesn't he go from near the end of the game to Snowdin via teleportation multiple times? that's a rather large range.
And Gaster blasters ignore (Do they even ignore or do they just have thst much power?) 2-B dura, chances are the barriers won't do a whole lot.
Just because he hasn't doesnt mean he cant, he can teleport himself, Frisk and projectiles, nothing is stopping him from teleporting an object away from an infinitely weaker character except maybe his own stupidity.
And Gaster blasters ignore (Do they even ignore or do they just have thst much power?) 2-B dura, chances are the barriers won't do a whole lot.
Just because he hasn't doesnt mean he cant, he can teleport himself, Frisk and projectiles, nothing is stopping him from teleporting an object away from an infinitely weaker character except maybe his own stupidity.
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- Thread starter
- #141
From what I recall, Sans simply seems to be one step above you all the time. Also he doesn't use it even remotely to the same extent in combat.
They ignore it via SOUL hax tho. If I fire a 10-A beam that decompose the soul at Goku, he dies. You block the blast with a tier 8 forcefield, you block it
Or it could mean that he can't do it.
They ignore it via SOUL hax tho. If I fire a 10-A beam that decompose the soul at Goku, he dies. You block the blast with a tier 8 forcefield, you block it
Or it could mean that he can't do it.
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No i mean, in one if the routes I recall him teleporting from the end of the game to Snowdin alongside Frisk.
Doesn't Goku resist that? Didn't he resist a hakai that also destroys the soul? And Gaster Blasters are technically at unknown, saying the barriers can block it is just guesswork and while it could be right I'm not sure, what here feats with it.
>allowing him to teleport not only himself, but objects and other people, as well. During battle, Sans will often teleport his opponent, himself, and his attacks, not only moving himself out of harms way, but moving his foe straight into a new attack. He has also shown the ability to "reset" an individual to their previous position.
Straight from his profile.
Doesn't Goku resist that? Didn't he resist a hakai that also destroys the soul? And Gaster Blasters are technically at unknown, saying the barriers can block it is just guesswork and while it could be right I'm not sure, what here feats with it.
>allowing him to teleport not only himself, but objects and other people, as well. During battle, Sans will often teleport his opponent, himself, and his attacks, not only moving himself out of harms way, but moving his foe straight into a new attack. He has also shown the ability to "reset" an individual to their previous position.
Straight from his profile.
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- Thread starter
- #143
Still hasn't showed it in battle to the se extent.
Fine, conceptual erasure instead of soul erasure, I think that you know what I meant. And it's up to you to prove that the GB can bypass forcefields.
Yes and? There is a serious difference between teleporting a person whole while you are much faster than them and teleporting an object away from them while you are focused on dodging and they are as fast as you.
Fine, conceptual erasure instead of soul erasure, I think that you know what I meant. And it's up to you to prove that the GB can bypass forcefields.
Yes and? There is a serious difference between teleporting a person whole while you are much faster than them and teleporting an object away from them while you are focused on dodging and they are as fast as you.
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Why would his teleportation magically decrease a few thousand fold in range while in combat? That makes no sense.
I could say it's up to you to prove they can block beams that can kill multiversals but fine, i doubt her barriers can block her strongest attacks if it comes down to him using teleportation to have her own attacks hit her (his reset could potebtially work here anyway).
Not really, teleportation is teleportation, speed isnt really a factor here at all, yeah dodging will take his focus a bit but if it's such a problem whats stopping him from teleporting away to widen the distance and then work his magic? Nothing as far as i can tell and it's not like her attacks will reach him or even herself before he can focus and work his teleportation magic, implying focus is even relevant here at all, nothing implies it's like Instant transmission tier, he spams the shit out of it so its probably a matter of just wanting it to happen
I could say it's up to you to prove they can block beams that can kill multiversals but fine, i doubt her barriers can block her strongest attacks if it comes down to him using teleportation to have her own attacks hit her (his reset could potebtially work here anyway).
Not really, teleportation is teleportation, speed isnt really a factor here at all, yeah dodging will take his focus a bit but if it's such a problem whats stopping him from teleporting away to widen the distance and then work his magic? Nothing as far as i can tell and it's not like her attacks will reach him or even herself before he can focus and work his teleportation magic, implying focus is even relevant here at all, nothing implies it's like Instant transmission tier, he spams the shit out of it so its probably a matter of just wanting it to happen
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- Thread starter
- #145
The teleportation range doesn't decrease, but he doesn't use it to the same extent in combat.
She is totally stupid enough to fire it in front of herself knowing that she would die. And no, it's not up to me because they don't harm the multiversal being via AP, which is what you need to break a forcefield.
It's like the difference between slashing someone with a sword and performing a medical operation. Both are absolutely the same thing, if you reduce it to "it's just using a knife". Guess what, they aren't.
Also, the moment he widen the distance he starts losing because Mami outranges him.
She is totally stupid enough to fire it in front of herself knowing that she would die. And no, it's not up to me because they don't harm the multiversal being via AP, which is what you need to break a forcefield.
It's like the difference between slashing someone with a sword and performing a medical operation. Both are absolutely the same thing, if you reduce it to "it's just using a knife". Guess what, they aren't.
Also, the moment he widen the distance he starts losing because Mami outranges him.
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Of course he doesnt, why would he? The person he fought was entirely melee and even then, he stomped them numerous times and even then, he still spammed it teleported himself, attacks and his enemy including resetting their posistion constantly, how does mami get around being constantly reset and being unable to move?
Her Firing it front of her is irrelevant, she could fire it behind her, downwards, upwards, it doesn't matter, Sans can teleport her directly into its line of fire and himself away from it and that's something he had in fact done in combat so that's irrelevant.
Yeah she outranges him, that doesn't matter, I never said he'd make it a ranged battle, i said he'd widen the distance to essentially focus on teleporting said object, not that he'd kite or snipe and him widening the distance a considerable amount gives him ample time, her attacks arent instant, they still need to cover said distance. And he can always enter back in his attack range whenever he pleases due to his teleport.
Her Firing it front of her is irrelevant, she could fire it behind her, downwards, upwards, it doesn't matter, Sans can teleport her directly into its line of fire and himself away from it and that's something he had in fact done in combat so that's irrelevant.
Yeah she outranges him, that doesn't matter, I never said he'd make it a ranged battle, i said he'd widen the distance to essentially focus on teleporting said object, not that he'd kite or snipe and him widening the distance a considerable amount gives him ample time, her attacks arent instant, they still need to cover said distance. And he can always enter back in his attack range whenever he pleases due to his teleport.
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- Thread starter
- #147
False, EoG Frisk is perfectly capable of using a gun. The same way Sans gets around being unable to move due to bullet spam, ribbon trap etc. It's the point of the thread, I wouldn't make it if I knew who would win from the start.
This isn't how Sans uses it tho. He uses the teleportation to prepare surprise attacks, he doesn't use the weapon of the opponent against them
She can keep firing at him, and I stand by my point that he has never done something like that. Also as SD pointed out, the Soul Gem can create both ribbons and explosions.
This isn't how Sans uses it tho. He uses the teleportation to prepare surprise attacks, he doesn't use the weapon of the opponent against them
She can keep firing at him, and I stand by my point that he has never done something like that. Also as SD pointed out, the Soul Gem can create both ribbons and explosions.
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I suppose you're right, but then again pretty sure the canon weapon used in the fight is a mere knife, especially since Sans' eventual death animation clearly shows slicing/cutting which most definitely implies a gun was nowhere in sight.
What? No, how does mami get past reset, saying the same way sans' gets past her spam isn't the same. He can spam his own teleport to get around it, she has no counter to his reset which makes her unable to move if he so decides it and technically attack at that.
Not entirely true, He's teleported in his own attacks to be right on top of his enemy and if I recall, he actually does teleport Frisk into oncoming fire.
Yes she can keep firing at him, so? The bullets still need to cover the distance, her continuously firing isn't gonna make thst happen any quicker and once again so what if he hasn't, why would he? Obligatory dbz example, Goku has instant transmission and you don't see him doing stuff like that, can he though? Yes he most definitely can but he rarely ever does except in sans' case the literal only fight he's been in had no reason for him to do so, if put in a situation where he needed to I don't see why he wouldn't make use of his powers.
Plus in the scene her soul gem didn't really show off any wild capabilities, considering two nornal girls where beside it unharmed and do we know if she can actively control it at That?
What? No, how does mami get past reset, saying the same way sans' gets past her spam isn't the same. He can spam his own teleport to get around it, she has no counter to his reset which makes her unable to move if he so decides it and technically attack at that.
Not entirely true, He's teleported in his own attacks to be right on top of his enemy and if I recall, he actually does teleport Frisk into oncoming fire.
Yes she can keep firing at him, so? The bullets still need to cover the distance, her continuously firing isn't gonna make thst happen any quicker and once again so what if he hasn't, why would he? Obligatory dbz example, Goku has instant transmission and you don't see him doing stuff like that, can he though? Yes he most definitely can but he rarely ever does except in sans' case the literal only fight he's been in had no reason for him to do so, if put in a situation where he needed to I don't see why he wouldn't make use of his powers.
Plus in the scene her soul gem didn't really show off any wild capabilities, considering two nornal girls where beside it unharmed and do we know if she can actively control it at That?
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- Thread starter
- #149
Actually, he teleports Frisk, then the GB fires (That's pretty much why it's dodgeable in the first place)
I don't get what you mean with that example, but we are pretty much repeating the debate above. Also saying "This guy has never done this but he can" is the textbook definition of a NLF.
There are 0 reasons for her to be unable to actively control it the same way, given that Mami is the Soul Gem and she is actively controlling the body. Also the explosion wasn't targeting them. And the dangerous thing for Sans are the ribbons anyway, given that they can bind Low 7-C's and negate powers.
I don't get what you mean with that example, but we are pretty much repeating the debate above. Also saying "This guy has never done this but he can" is the textbook definition of a NLF.
There are 0 reasons for her to be unable to actively control it the same way, given that Mami is the Soul Gem and she is actively controlling the body. Also the explosion wasn't targeting them. And the dangerous thing for Sans are the ribbons anyway, given that they can bind Low 7-C's and negate powers.
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Sans wins via teleporting Mami's soul gem into a black hole.
In all seriousness, Mami via Kalitas' reasons.
In all seriousness, Mami via Kalitas' reasons.
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How does she get by reset?
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Pretty sure there's a point where everything sporadically changes nonstop in the fight.
Thing is he has teleported objects, and he makes abundant use of his teleportation in battle, I'm not saying he's gonna do something he's never done before but rather he'll just make better use of something he has.
And I'm gonna need an example or something of her being able to control the gem itself outside of a flashy transformation.
Thing is he has teleported objects, and he makes abundant use of his teleportation in battle, I'm not saying he's gonna do something he's never done before but rather he'll just make better use of something he has.
And I'm gonna need an example or something of her being able to control the gem itself outside of a flashy transformation.
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Frisk doesn't get around it by dodgeing, they're helpless untill he falls asleep.
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- Thread starter
- #155
That's because he keeps teleporting you.
Again, teleporting a person whole =/= teleporting an object that they are wearing.
So I need to show more proof for something that she did while Sans can get away with something that he never did? And those are literally the same ribbons. In Different Story she uses the ribbons that make up her own dress, which are the same that came out of the gem.
Frisk does dodge until Sans falls asleep tho.
Again, teleporting a person whole =/= teleporting an object that they are wearing.
So I need to show more proof for something that she did while Sans can get away with something that he never did? And those are literally the same ribbons. In Different Story she uses the ribbons that make up her own dress, which are the same that came out of the gem.
Frisk does dodge until Sans falls asleep tho.
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See that's the thing, Sans has teleported objects, we know this, he has done this but the problem here is you say he has never done so in combat, the same could be applied to that, has she ever used her gem like that in combat?
I'm talking about when he said screw it and refused to let Frisk take a turn by continually resetting their position and even preventing them from attacking, there was no dodging there at all.
I'm talking about when he said screw it and refused to let Frisk take a turn by continually resetting their position and even preventing them from attacking, there was no dodging there at all.
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- #157
Using ribbons to bind people? Yes she did. She doesn't even need them to come from the soul gem because she can bind the area anyway.
If stamina comes into play, which is what would happen in this case, i'm pretty sure that Mami has the higher stamina of the two.
If stamina comes into play, which is what would happen in this case, i'm pretty sure that Mami has the higher stamina of the two.
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Yes she's used ribbons to bind people, we know this. Just like we know Sans can teleport objects. Your problem here is he can't do it in combat which I highly doubt but then you used an example of the gem doing some flashy stuff, has she done so in combat with the gem is what I'm asking.
He's still capable of resetting positions and he actually does teleport people into attacks, he teleported Frisk into a center of unavoidable bone cage like construct and killed them that way.
He's still capable of resetting positions and he actually does teleport people into attacks, he teleported Frisk into a center of unavoidable bone cage like construct and killed them that way.
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- #159
I mean, Mami doesn't use the gem. The gem uses her body. Point is that the gem does create the same ribbons that she uses to bind people. The difference with Sans is that he hasn't shown the ability to teleport an object out of someone's hands. While she has shown the ability to create and manipulate the ribbons.
No, he didn't. He lied and said that he would spare them, then used a surprised attack. There is no teleportation involved in the scene.
No, he didn't. He lied and said that he would spare them, then used a surprised attack. There is no teleportation involved in the scene.
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And what about all those times he teleported Frisk and a multitude of attacks in quick succesion.
You can say she dodges them like frisk, but remember, Frisk died, many, many, many times. Mami doesnt have that advantage in coming back and alreasy knowing exactly what will happen, it's not that Frisk dodges them, it's that they already know what's gonna happen and mami doesn't have precog or anything lsst i checked so she messes up once she's screwed. Hell Sans has attacks that harm ya if ya do dodge too.
And yes you're correct, i thought the screen flashed black when he did that which is what happens when he teleports.
You can say she dodges them like frisk, but remember, Frisk died, many, many, many times. Mami doesnt have that advantage in coming back and alreasy knowing exactly what will happen, it's not that Frisk dodges them, it's that they already know what's gonna happen and mami doesn't have precog or anything lsst i checked so she messes up once she's screwed. Hell Sans has attacks that harm ya if ya do dodge too.
And yes you're correct, i thought the screen flashed black when he did that which is what happens when he teleports.
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