Sanji Fights a Snake Boi

[Shadowbokunohero]

Fishman Island Sanji:

Omnipotence Arc Mitsuki:

* Speed is Equalized


* Battle takes place in Ichigo Kurosaki's room during the events of Hueco Mundo

From what i can gather

* Sanji starts at 37 gigatons, can go up to 75 gigatons with his strongest attacks.

* Mitsuki starts in 34 Gigatons and can go higher with sage mode.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Mitsuki's bag seems deeper, maybe he can pull off a paralysis

What's the sealing ability of his?

 

[That_moron2]

Following

 

[Samlex1234]

Following

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Following.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Mitsuki's bag seems deeper, maybe he can pull off a paralysis

What's the sealing ability of his?

I believe its the string light formation, the same that Iruka used against Naruto, Mitsuki uses it against Kakashi during their bell test.

 

[Nierre]

yikes
on mobile rn so I cant check, but who has the higher LS?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Sanji should have T vs M

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Can't Sanji just burn Mitsuki to death? His regeneration isn't that powerful I believe.

 

[Nierre]

Sanji should have T vs M

yikes..

uhh MItsuki usually starts with Lightning if long range or stretching his arms to grab onto the opponent and restrain them, if close range then he'll likely do h2h

Can't Sanji just burn Mitsuki to death? His regeneration isn't that powerful I believe.

yeah mitsukis Regen is low iirc + afaik he has no heat resistance on his profile either.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

yeah mitsukis Regen is low iirc + afaik he has no heat resistance on his profile either.

Mhm. To make matters worse, Sanji's heat could burn a fellow elastic man (Luffy) who resisted the heat of something else.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Does Sanji have anything saving him for paralysis using the lightning styles?
Mitsuki has also his snakes to shield sanjis heat attacks

 

[Nierre]

Does Sanji have anything saving him for paralysis using the lightning styles?
Mitsuki has also his snakes to shield sanjis heat attacks

Sanji can dodge pretty easily, or counter with Arm Haki which is resistant to lightning

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

how good is sanji's lightning resistance? cause mitsuki's lightning in base is capable of dispersing Shinki's iron sand which can shrug off both sarada and boruto's combined raiton attacks, this in spite of having the elemental weakness.

 

[Nierre]

Mitsuki actually uses snake substitution in character (at least in the anime) so if he gets in sticky situations he can use that.

He also has access to Sage Mode which gives him a massive amp, with his Shunshin which was able to blitz Orochimaru (his profile is a tad bit outdated)

 

[Nierre]

how good is sanji's lightning resistance? cause mitsuki's lightning in base is capable of dispersing Shinki's iron sand which can shrug off both sarada and boruto's combined raiton attacks, this in spite of having the elemental weakness.

technically thats anime only, none of Team 7 fight Shinki in the manga. In fact if the matches weren't interrupted Sarada would've fought MItsuki and Araya would've fought Shinki

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

i smell copium

 

[SlendVeny]

Mitsuki actually uses snake substitution in character (at least in the anime) so if he gets in sticky situations he can use that.

He also has access to Sage Mode which gives him a massive amp, with his Shunshin which was able to blitz Orochimaru (his profile is a tad bit outdated)

That was Sage Transformation iirc, which is... different?

 

[Nierre]

That was Sage Transformation iirc, which is... different?

yeah that's what i meant

 

[SlendVeny]

yeah that's what i meant

Honestly, that thing gives a CRAZY buff, idk if Sanji can deal with that.

 

[Nierre]

Honestly, that thing gives a CRAZY buff, idk if Sanji can deal with that.

It depends on if Sanji can beat him before he transforms. If Mitsuki transforms using ST, he should blitz quite easily, but I personally don't think Mitsuki can win in just base form.

 

[Kachon123]

Stretching abilities isn't an issue as Sanji's captain has the same thing (who he fights every night lol). He'd use it to his advantage in order to land attacks. Kenbunshoku Haki can also help with this. Sanji has an attack speed amp with Diable Jambe which would allow him to land these attacks easier. Diable Jambe is also heat-based durability negation that scales well above 28000º C, so unless Mitsuki has an answer to this I doubt that he would last long against someone like Sanji who tends to string several strikes together in continuous succession before his opponent can recover. Lightning also isn't an issue as he could withstand Enel's 30 million volt attack momentarily despite having sustained fatal injuries moments prior and he has strong Busōshoku Haki which grants him resistance.

Mitsuki's Sage Mode and Shunshin speed amps aren't an issue either as Sanji has gone through extensive Haki training and as a result is a Kenbunshoku specialist. Even low tier Kenbunshoku users with baseline combat training like Rebecca are renown for being undefeated and untouchable by the entire country of Dressrosa thanks to her battles in Corrida Colosseum. This is the same Colosseum that houses the best fighters from nations all over the world from assassins and master martial artists. Rebecca uses her Kenbunshoku to predict attacks and stop them before they're even thrown, using trips and throws to her advantage in order to remain completely untouched. She was also able to use her Kenbun to predict and survive against Hakuba while everyone else in the Colosseum was blitzed and oneshot. Luffy could out-precog and lowdiff Rebecca while restrained with food in his hands, and Sanji is even greater than that.

Substitution Jutsu and its variants also gets countered by Kenbunshoku Haki (for obvious reasons). He could hear and sense a single teardrop from across an entire island through a battlezone. His Kenbunshoku Haki is also superior to Zoro's who was able to similarly use his Kenbunshoku Haki to predict where Pica would shift his consciousness and body to before it actually happened.

And then there's the issue of LS. Sanji's LS is what allows him to preform his crazy feats of sending people flying. With superior LS, Sanji can BFR Mitsuki with his leg strength like he did to Luffy when he sent him flying outside of Fishman Island (just with a few extra steps).

With all of this in consideration, I'll vote Sanji.

 

[Nierre]

I agree with most of your points but I have a few nitpicks:

Mitsuki's Sage Mode and Shunshin speed amps aren't an issue either as Sanji has gone through extensive Haki training and as a result is a Kenbunshoku specialist. Even low tier Kenbunshoku users with baseline combat training like Rebecca are renown for being undefeated and untouchable by the entire country of Dressrosa thanks to her battles in Corrida Colosseum. This is the same Colosseum that houses the best fighters from nations all over the world from assassins and master martial artists. Rebecca uses her Kenbunshoku to predict attacks and stop them before they're even thrown, using trips and throws to her advantage in order to remain completely untouched. She was also able to use her Kenbun to predict and survive against Hakuba while everyone else in the Colosseum was blitzed and oneshot. Luffy could out-precog and lowdiff Rebecca while restrained with food in his hands, and Sanji is even greater than that.

This is all good and all, but Sanji's profile has nothing that shows that he can react to something as fast as Mitsuki's ST Shunshin. Mind you that speed is equalized to the slower character (Mitsuki). Mitsuki goes from MHS+ to Relativistic (which technically should be FTL, as Orochimaru also blitzes Base Naruto in one of the novels, just both Sound Ninjas aren't updated yet), so Sanji's Haki would need a feat that'd have him react to something that fast otherwise he just gets blitzed. (An example would be like BoT Luffy vs Kaido, yeah Luffy has Haki, but there's no way his Haki is enabling him to even react let alone respond to Kaido who is just SO much faster than him)

And then there's the issue of LS. Sanji's LS is what allows him to preform his crazy feats of sending people flying. With superior LS, Sanji can BFR Mitsuki with his leg strength like he did to Luffy when he sent him flying outside of Fishman Island (just with a few extra steps).

Mitsuki can just stretch back or turn into snakes the moment he gets hit, so he has counters to Sanji's BFR in this case.

His Kenbunshoku Haki is also superior to Zoro's who was able to similarly use his Kenbunshoku Haki to predict where Pica would shift his consciousness and body to before it actually happened.

Also here it doesn't actually look like he saw it before it happened, it looks like he's seeing Pica AS he's rising, as shown in the anime where the Haki effects are gone and he's rising within the same motion as when Zoro saw him with Haki. I'm sure there are better examples than this but this one in particular just looks like Zoro was moreso looking at the general area with Haki rather than him seeing events prior to them actually happening.

 

[Kachon123]

This is all good and all, but Sanji's profile has nothing that shows that he can react to something as fast as Mitsuki's ST Shunshin. Mind you that speed is equalized to the slower character (Mitsuki). Mitsuki goes from MHS+ to Relativistic (which technically should be FTL, as Orochimaru also blitzes Base Naruto in one of the novels, just both Sound Ninjas aren't updated yet), so Sanji's Haki would need a feat that'd have him react to something that fast otherwise he just gets blitzed. (An example would be like BoT Luffy vs Kaido, yeah Luffy has Haki, but there's no way his Haki is enabling him to even react let alone respond to Kaido who is just SO much faster than him)

• Statistics Amplification (Able to amplify their senses and react to things much faster than their base reactions[20][21][22])

Mitsuki can just stretch back or turn into snakes the moment he gets hit, so he has counters to Sanji's BFR in this case.

Mitsuki's rage is Several Meters with elasticity. Fishman Island's bubble is several tens of kilometers tall.

Also here it doesn't actually look like he saw it before it happened, it looks like he's seeing Pica AS he's rising, as shown in the anime where the Haki effects are gone and he's rising within the same motion as when Zoro saw him with Haki. I'm sure there are better examples than this but this one in particular just looks like Zoro was moreso looking at the general area with Haki rather than him seeing events prior to them actually happening.

In the anime we see the cloudy visual effect before Pica rises out of the ground, which is what Zoro sensed. Suleiman and Luffy couldn't see Pica at first after Zoro called him out despite him being right in front of them because of that.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

as for fighting styles, i should prob add that its very in character for Mitsuki to spam body flicker during combat, as shown against, iwabe,Sumire and Deepa.

 

[Kachon123]

In the anime we see the cloudy visual effect before Pica rises out of the ground, which is what Zoro sensed. Suleiman and Luffy couldn't see Pica at first after Zoro called him out despite him being right in front of them because of that.

This is what I mean

 

[Nierre]

You still havent shown Sanji being able to overcome a speed disadvantage from MHS+ to Rel (or FTL+ for that matter)

Mitsuki was able to statue someone already FAR faster than himself, so he can easily run laps around Sanji even with Haki

Mitsuki's rage is Several Meters with elasticity. Fishman Island's bubble is several tens of kilometers tall.

Yeah, Sanji isn't faster than Mitsuki, he can still stretch his arm before he goes out of reach

This is what I mean

ohh yeah i get what u mean there, i'll concede on that

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Mitsuki's rage is Several Meters with elasticity. Fishman Island's bubble is several tens of kilometers tall.

Nierre means stuff like this:

 

[Nierre]

Nierre means stuff like this:

yeah and also this is a good example of mitsuki reacting to someone who blitzed him too ngl lol

being able to pull off substitution against someone who blitzed you is a good feat. Once I get the speed revisions going these kids are gonna be unstoppable

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

on a side note, its super funny how this actually looks like Mitsuki fighting a Haki user

 

[Kachon123]

Nierre means stuff like this:

I was replying to this

Mitsuki can just stretch back or turn into snakes the moment he gets hit

Regardless, Haki should definitely allow Sanji to damage Mitsuki's real body if he disperses into snakes (unless this is just substitution Jutsu)

Yeah, Sanji isn't faster than Mitsuki, he can still stretch his arm before he goes out of reach

I genuinely don't think he can Against someone with LS that much greater than yours you'd be sent with such force that you'd be too focused on regaining composure. It's like being accelerated in a jet.

You still havent shown Sanji being able to overcome a speed disadvantage from MHS+ to Rel (or FTL+ for that matter)

Mitsuki was able to statue someone already FAR faster than himself, so he can easily run laps around Sanji even with Haki

I already sent Haki's reaction amps. Aisa reacted to Enel's lightning even though she has the base reactions of a normal young child.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Lightning also isn't an issue as he could withstand Enel's 30 million volt attack momentarily despite having sustained fatal injuries moments prior and he has strong

Pause.

why is it so low?

 

[Kachon123]

Pause.

why is it so low?

I don't know. Though I wouldn't really take the name seriously as the dude literally brings lightning from the skies that can nuke entire islands and powered a ship that could reach the moon with 200 million volts. Oda likely just doesn't understand the implications of voltage and just threw random numbers attached to "million" because it sounded crazy

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

was about to say cause Mitsuki would def be significantly above that 30 million range.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

though this does make me question the heat scaling above Mitsuki, given characters that get hit by lightning based attacks, some air to ground with specific values of being able to vaporize people.

though regardless this not reflected on the profile so it doesnt matter for this matchup

 

[Kachon123]

though this does make me question the heat scaling above Mitsuki, given characters that get hit by lightning based attacks, some air to ground with specific values of being able to vaporize people.

though regardless this not reflected on the profile so it doesnt matter for this matchup

Could you rephrase this message? I don't know if its just me but I don't understand what you're saying here

 

[Nierre]

I already sent Haki's reaction amps. Aisa reacted to Enel's lightning even though she has the base reactions of a normal young child.

So every single Haki user who's more proficient than Aisa can react to speeds millions of times faster than themselves?

Are there any other feats that support this or is this the only one? Because this is the biggest outlier I've probably ever seen. How do characters with Haki even get tagged in the first place if Haki amps their reactions THAT much? And why isn't that on the profiles? Sanji's reaction speed with Haki should be millions of times faster than what he has currently

 

[Kachon123]

So every single Haki user who's more proficient than Aisa can react to speeds millions of times faster than themselves?

Are there any other feats that support this or is this the only one? Because this is the biggest outlier I've probably ever seen. How do characters with Haki even get tagged in the first place if Haki amps their reactions THAT much? And why isn't that on the profiles? Sanji's reaction speed with Haki should be millions of times faster than what he has currently

Whether you want to word it like that or simply take the feat as it is in the manga is up to you because I can claim the same think for any other amp. The difference from Massively Hypersonic to Relativistic is almost 1000x. Does that mean that even in Blue Vortex Mitsuki gets 1000x faster when he uses his Sage Transformation? You technically could say that but its a very strange stance to take.

It's not an outlier as Haki has been shown many times to boost reactions to insane levels. They consistently react to people who can blitz them normally. Characters with Haki don't get tagged by people who don't have it unless they use gimmicks, that's the point. Rebecca was known as untouchable, Enel and his Priests literally couldn't be touched unless they had their movements restricted, Sandersonia was known as untouchable, Katakuri was known as untouchable, Kyros AS A TOY was a fugitive who would constantly get chased by Dressrosa's soldiers an almost never got tagged once because of his Kenbun. It's listed on some profiles, but it was decided to just add it to the Haki page instead as its more efficient that way.

 

[Nierre]

Does that mean that even in Blue Vortex Mitsuki gets 1000x faster when he uses his Sage Transformation?

Well... yes, because his scaling doesn't change. In TBV he'd be MHS+, Rel with ST (he doesn't have any feats that upgrade him, of course with time that'll change.).

Whether you want to word it like that or simply take the feat as it is in the manga is up to you because I can claim the same think for any other amp.

One of the ways Haki works is that it enhances your senses allowing you to react to things faster than you normally can.

Since you're arguing it'd be some type of multiplier since Sanji "scales" above Aisa's potency, it'd be something like this: Aisa would be something like Below Average Human level, MHS+ with Haki. As you imply, Sanji would scale above this feat in reactions as his Haki is superior to Aisa's. So Sanji's speed would be something like Relativistic+, MFTL with Haki (Should scale above Aisa's proficiency in Haki). This would be the justification.

But obviously that's not how that works in the verse, nobody in the verse currently has reactions that span to MFTL, or even higher, as characters currently are now FTL+, and their Haki should scale above Aisa. But for some reason it's not on their profile because... you guys decided to put it on the Haki page?

Because according to the Haki page, if one is a higher level in Haki advancement than the other, then they should scale to their feats.

Another example, we have characters like Gedatsu and Katakuri, who both have higher with Haki on their profiles, which is perfectly fine. But they both, according to you, should scale above Aisa in Haki potency, which would also include reactions. Yet none of their profiles incorporate that logic because it's not a multiplier, yet you're acting like it is.


Yes, Haki increases their reactions by alot, but you saying that Sanji would scale above Aisa's feat as if it's a multiplier, yet not only does his profile not show how much faster his reactions would be, yet OTHER profiles with Haki say otherwise, is just wrong.

Like I could literally make the same argument in the Naruto franchise and say something like (goons use this unironically): "KN0 allowed Naruto to go from Subsonic to MHS+ (Mach 8000+), and Sage Mode is a superior form to KN0, therefore it offers a superior speed amp". Which is obviously a stupid take, but that's essentially what's being argued here with Haki.

 

[Godernet]

An amp clearing a massive AP/speed gap ≠ an amp always clearing the highest known gap it's cleared.

not everything is a multiplier, some abilities are just flat amps (which is why the wiki doesn't let you get multipliers this way)

not to mention some amps also just have a stat floor (meaning they at a bare minimum will bring you to a certain level regardless of where you were before.)

Example: an ability that amps speed at a bare minimum bringing anyone that uses it to MHS regardless of where they were before or how experienced they are with the technique, a lot of authors do this for the in-verse reason of having every newbie with the ability capable of fighting at a similar level.

Rather than trying to quantify two amps with no numeric way to quantify, it would be better to just argue which is the better in-verse amp, like if one is blitz level or not.