Saber vs Ash Ketchum

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

If they get hit most of Ash pokémon will get vaporized and the ones that tank it would take severe damage which will weaken them and seeing as they don't have regen, Saber would just out sustain them and vaporize them eventually. Also isn't double team clones just illusions?

 

[Rin_Rokudo]

Double clones are illusions I believe. And Saber's precog will allow her to tell the real one.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Gren's clones are weird, they have some sort of physical attributes anyway, plus their was the time he made a bunch of clones and then absorbed there power to make a super powered shuriken so they exist at least, which was bullshit but the fact is it happened, And no, I wouldn't go as far as to say vaporize, knocked on there ass and put out of commision or killed in some cases maybe but vaporized would be stretching it and Gren should be comfortably around city-mountain level considering it got punched by Zard-Z numerous times with Thunder Punch which leads me to my next question, what's Excaliblast's yield?

 

[Reppuzan]

@J-Man

Excalibur has a massive AoE that can easily roast an entire fortress. Plus, Saber's Instinct helped her dodge Tsubame Gaeshi (an attack which causes the wielder's three sword strikes to be launched at the exact same time). I don't think a few ephemeral Double Team clones is going to do much.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Excaliblast act like an expanding laser of sorts as in she can only fire in one direction which but almost everything in that direction gets fried and more so the further it goes, that's what I recall anyway plus if she had to engulf the whole area would she not also be caught in the blast? Also it's more than a few, upwards of a hundred of them for what it's worth.

Edit: I double checked, from what I can see in the anime adaptions (which is the closest I can get for an idea right now) it fires off like a laser then explodes. Although the precog could be trouble but to what extent I'm not sure.

 

[Reppuzan]

Wherever the tip lands is blasted into particles in a massive concentric circle. This is the reason why it's called an Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm. She has also used it against entire military cohorts, which number in the hundreds of men by themselves.

 

[Paladinporter]

Excalibur one shots the entire team.

Ash: 1

Saber: 1

 

[Paladinporter]

I give it to Ash.
Saber has precog, but in 6 vs 1 match, she still has hard time to deal with them. Not to mention that all of them is around 7-A especially Pikachu and Greninja who far superior to normal mountain level rank.

Saber's magic resistance can protect her from some moves. But since Ash's team have members that on casual mountain level. Plus they also have several physical attacks(Iron Tail, Flying Press, Aerial Ace, Brave Bird, etc.), so I don't think magic resistance should be a problem.

If Ash lucky, he can also use Pikachu to paralyze her. And he can increase success rate when combine with Goodra's Rain Dance.

For Saber best attack, Excalibur. She can charge it really fast if she want. And can also blasts her opponents with the Hammer of the Wind King before charging. But since this is 6 vs 1, I doubt really hard she can stop them all before success using it.

Even Saber succes to use Excaliblast, I think most of Ash's team can dodge. Noivern, Talonflame and Hawlucha can flight, left of them can also ride on first set to dodge. Not to mention Ash also has a way to call them back to pokeballs for dodge it.

With this, I think Ash got thid hihg-diff.

Ash: 2

Saber: 1

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

@Reppuzan

The problem with that is she's going to be flanked by all sides, she essentially has a 1/4 chance to hit Gren but a 3/4 chance to get hit herself in the process.

At this point I could see it going either way but both sides have stuff that makes it diffcult for each to be taken out (Double Team and to a larger extent Avalon) while each side has stuff that could eventually take out the other side.(Excaliblast and Gren's Water Shuriken).

@Paladin

I actually retract my vote for Ash, I'm honestly a bit torn as either could win depending on how the fight plays out.

 

[Reppuzan]

Double Team clones are illusions. Her Instinct lets her choose which is the real one.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Gren's clones don't actually follow the same exact rules, they have some sort of semi-physical attributes and can even use them to buff himself.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Some of the times, Double Team is duplication rather than afterimages/illusions. I don't think this has happened since Original Series though.

 

[Reppuzan]

The fact that beating the real Greninja will cause the rest to fade is still a given.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

While true she still has to counter upwards of a hundred+ clones coming in from all sides capable of dealing physical damage. Plus there's still Goodra which has Bide which deals back double the damage it recieved implying it doesn't get ohkoed.

 

[Reppuzan]

@J-Man

Goodra doesn't have a profile nor is it mentioned on Ash's page (make this match banned from the start under our rule for not allowing character who don't have profiles to have matches). In addition, Ash's profile is heavily inconsistent with our Greninja profile.

Finally, Excalibur only takes an instant to activate, and that's assuming that a bloodlusted Saber won't kill Ash first.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Holy hell, I honestly don't know what's wrong with that profile but it's horrendously inaccurate, stick to the Ash profile for now as I don't know how anyone managed to get room level and unknow speed when it has a plethora of feats and scaling it can use to get solid results.

Goodra is apart of Ash's XY team and Ash's 7-A key is (XY Team) which Goodra is apart of and if ya can't use Goodra then Ash would get gimped in all his matches using that team.

Remember, this is speed equal, Ash can actively dodge her attacks and this is implying one of his mons won't stick around to protect him, probably Goodra or Pikachu all things considered or that she won't be busy dealing with other mons attacking her while she's trying to fire it.

 

[Reppuzan]

I find it hard to believe that an untrained ten year old would be able to accurately dodge a sword swing from a master swordswoman with an invisible sword and precognition. That's also assuming that he isn't caught in the blast radius of Excalibur.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>Untrained.

The dude's been through some shit and has dodged his fair share of things you'd expect him not too.

Also he wouldn't normally be able to do anything about it but speed equal is currently a thing which makes it a possibility depending on the distance and once again this is assuming she can fire it since while it only takes a second to activate so does the numerous attacks from several Pokemon, they're attacks aren't slow either and in some cases on a similar caliber.

 

[Reppuzan]

How many fist fights has Ash been in? Yes, he has some superhuman feats of his own, but they're nothing next to Saber's.

Speed equalized doesn't bridge the difference in skill, Saber's precognition advantage, and the fact that her sword is invisible.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Fist fights? Next to none, doesn't change the fact he's seen things that far outclass her and obviously he's nothing to Saber, if it was just Ash Vs. Saber she could look at him funy and he'd drop dead but as it is she's not actually fighting him, well she is, but she's also simutaneously fighting 6 other characters at once, those of which are a lot closer to her power and in some cases beat her out.

You're right it doesn't bridge the skill difference but that doesn't change the fact that depending on the distance with speed equalized he could dodge, the attack is telegraphed and once fired ya can't exactly change the trajectory plus if she goes for him she's leaving her self open on top of that.

 

[Rin_Rokudo]

the attack is telegraphed and once fired ya can't exactly change the trajectory

An attack that manages to intercept Rider, one of the fastest Servants point-blank, isn't telegraphed at all.

if she goes for him she's leaving her self open on top of that.

Except she can dodge most of them via her precog and higher skills. The fact that she's bloodlusted makes this even more probably as she will use Excalibur immediately.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

From what I've seen it is, that or it's for dramatic effect.

Either way neither of you have touched upon the fact she has 5-6 comparable monsters attacking her simutaneously, even if Excaliblast is nigh-instant so are their attacks, if she's firing it she can't exactly be blocking either.

 

[Reppuzan]

For dramatic effect. In the novels it takes a fraction of a second to charge and was used the moment Rider used his Noble Phantasm (which crossed 100 meters in a literal instant) and still struck first.

You're also making the assumption that Ash's Pokemon are all equal in strength.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Fair enough.

I'm not assuming they are but they're all close enough, all of them should be between High 7-C and 7-A as they could all fight Alain's team and not get curbed (which includes things like Metagross, Tyranitar, Bisharp and even Ash Gren was being fodderized by Charizard prior to the league match and he still lost, Charizard being the top tier of the team). Point is she has 5-6 Tier 7's on her all at once.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I don't see how Ash and his Pokemon would survive getting Excalibasted into particles let alone win. Excaliblast coupled with precog and Avalons hax defense and passive regen makes this a solid win for Saber.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Because at least one of his Pokemon has durability that exceeds Excaliblast and has the AP to put her down fully ie decapitation.

The only problem I see is Avalon's defense which coupled with spammin Excaliblast could very well net her the win but that's still implying she can pull it off in rapid succesion without getting hit within the timeframe with attack of a similar caliber.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Excalibur is at least 7-A to High 7-A meaning that Excalibur could be used here as peak mountain level or 1 gigaton during this fight without breaking the rules, it also means that Ash and Co won't be able to tank it since they are high 7-C to regular 7-A with some being at least 7-A likely Higher, since the likely higher is unquantifiable they are just high end 7-A meaning that they will get blasted to particles if they get hit. Assuming that Ash isn't caught in the blast the only way they could win is if some of Ashs pokémon miraculously survives Excalibur and manages to catch her off guard and decapitates her, which I doubt would happen due to her precog and master swordsmanship. Avalon just makes her victory almost assured since she could block all of their strongest attacks easily as well as regen all the damage she takes.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@Reppu

Are you voting for saber?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

For what it's worth Excaliblast isn't fully charged here so it's just mountain level and not small island so 1-3 members can tank it, some better than others.

 

[Reppuzan]

@J-Man

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

She's able to fully charge it and do this in a fraction of a second.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

What I mean is it's not small island level but rather just mountain here as it's not at its maximum power in the scenario is what I meant, sorry if I didn't make that clear, point is mountain level attacks 2-3 of his Pokemon can tank with one most quite capable of tanking it.

Also while she's able to charge it within that period would she be able to prevent getting hit herself, sure it takes a second but she's being attack on top of this, 1 second to charge Excaliblast is fast but not like the opposing team can't respond with attacks that fast too that have range and a similar energy output.

 

[Reppuzan]

You're not reading the tabs correctly. This is her 7-A version, meaning that her fully charged Excalibur is High 7-A.

No one in Ash's team has anything to counter Excalibur's damage output.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

At least 7-B with physical strikes, At least 7-A with Excalibur, likely High 7-A with a fully charged Excalibur, is what it says.

Earlier in the thread I was told it was the Fate key so not Bladeworks which is the one with the small island level Excaliblast via feats and also in the attack potency category for her Fate key it says likely Small Island level (She was plagued by a lack of mana during the aforementioned examples, a fully charged Excalibur is likely to be far more powerful) and in the OP it says fully charged Excaliblast is restricted so no High 7-A Excaliblast ain't a thing here, there was the mention of changing it to the UBW Key earlier in the thread and if that were to happen I woud have next to no counter arguments for Ash but OP never changed it so it's still the Fate key with High 7-A Excaliblast is restricted here.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'd advise you to read her profile again since the OP not only says 7-A versions but I'm really tired of arguing this with you.

7-A with physical strikes, At least High 7-A with Excalibur

"Mountain level with physical strikes (Has an A rank strength, equal to Berserker), At least Small Island level with Excalibur (Above Kiritsugu's Mastery)

This is her 7-A version. Stop twisting words to make false claims about the state of the match.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Straight from the Op

Both 7-A forms

Ash has all of his pokemon as best as they were in X/Y.

Saber (Fate) has Excalibur/Avalon (Not fully charged mind you)

And add the fact that Shining Burning Finger and Rin already discussed this, it's the Fate key being used here, not UBW works which is the one with the small isand due to being above Kiritsugu's Mastery, they're both 7-A but Fate to a lesser extent and not small island especially since Excalibur isn't fully charged here as stated in the OP.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

If ya want to tell me I'm wrong fine, but I'm not the only person here that seems to think it's the Fate key as opposed to the UBW key.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

That or we can wait for OP to specify further but the fact that it says (Fate) in the OP and makes mention of Excalibur not being fully charged leads me to believe it's the Fate key.

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Artoria in her 7-A key is the one with mountain busting physically while small island busting via Excalibur. The way i see it, the problem only lies withing the OP for making a mistake of mixing it up. So all this thread really need is just a clarification from the OP on what version of Artoria he/she truly intended to use. Since there's no mountain busting Excalibur for 7-A Artoria since that key only has small island Excalibur

Tl;dr

The argument based on mountain level Excalibur is only valid if the Saber that's used within the thread is 7-B Artoria which isn't the case since the version used here is her 7-A key


Friggin' get it right OP. Reading isn't that hard

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I could see the OP making an error due to the fact that the 7-B Fate key also says At least 7-A with Excalibur, likely High 7-A with a fully charged Excalibur so there was room for error to be made.

If OP clarifies which key is being used and if it ain't the Fate Saber then she would win against Ash in her other incarnations but as far as the Fate incarnation I see Ash taking this more often than not with the only big problem being Avalon.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Fate version still takes this 8/10 times, since she could use it charged enough for it to be peak mountain level or as close to small island level without actually being small island level. Considering that Ashs strongest pokémon are high end 7-A they would still get blasted into particles or at least get severely damaged. Couple that with precog and Avalons hax defense means that their strongest attacks won't be doing anything.