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You know, this battle had given me an inspiration of another thread that i think that i would make after this thread is closed and its results are added.Ramesses the Sun King said:
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Saber Alter vs Issei Hyoudou
- Thread starter Muhammedmco
- Start date
- Status
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WHOA WHOA WHOA WAIT A MINUTE. THIS IS SABER ALTER AS SAKURA AS HER MASTER??? If it is IMMEDIATELY change my vote from Issei to SaberRamesses the Sun King said:
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Dude! Calm Down! That's Ok! Everybody makes mistakes!LukeSky001 said:
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>More magical energy=better mana burst and Saber has a effectively limitless magical energy source
3-A Alter when ovo
3-A Alter when ovo
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Huh?! What does that mean?!TheJ-ManRequiem said:
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WHOA WHOA WHOA WAIT A MINUTE. THIS IS SABER ALTER AS SAKURA AS HER MASTER???
If it is IMMEDIATELY change my vote from Issei to Saber
Dude! Calm Down! That's Ok! Everybody makes mistakes!
I know. I mean, if this was with the master from Fate Grand order then that would be a different story.
If it is IMMEDIATELY change my vote from Issei to Saber
Dude! Calm Down! That's Ok! Everybody makes mistakes!
I know. I mean, if this was with the master from Fate Grand order then that would be a different story.
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3-A Alter and Shirou beat her ez so High 3-A Shirou Emiya confirmed.
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You're missing the big picture, 3-A Gil and BB man.
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>Implying
Oh no, you misunderstand.
That was the plan the entire time.
Oh no, you misunderstand.
That was the plan the entire time.
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Anyway, who is Burning voting for?
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SINCE WHEN HAVING INFINTE MANA = INSTANT UNIVERSE DESTROYER???
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I think he was voting for Issei, but i'm not sure about that. So i didn't add his vote.TheJ-ManRequiem said:
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Well ya see more mana equals more power, infinite mana=infinite power
Against Lancer it was a 3x increase so if It's infinite than an infinite increase thus 3-A
OVO
Against Lancer it was a 3x increase so if It's infinite than an infinite increase thus 3-A
OVO
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Ah k so 2-6?
Saber just needs one more vote then.
Saber just needs one more vote then.
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No. It's 6-1 for Saber Alter. LukeSky001 changed his vote to Saber Alter after knowing that it's Saber Alter was Sakura Matou's Servant.TheJ-ManRequiem said:
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Isn't this kind of a stomp in Saber favour? she is At least 7-A normally and At Least High 7-A with Excalibur Morgan while Issei is only 7-A and At least 7-A with Longinus Smasher.
Anyway, Issei does have Pailingual which would allow him to read her mind and divide should be enough to even the AP difference. Also, I would argue that Issei have a much batter end.
Not sure it it's enough to overcome her Regenerationn, precog, teleportation, and magic resistance tho.
Anyway, Issei does have Pailingual which would allow him to read her mind and divide should be enough to even the AP difference. Also, I would argue that Issei have a much batter end.
Not sure it it's enough to overcome her Regenerationn, precog, teleportation, and magic resistance tho.
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I realize that, I'm counting burning as a vote for Issei.
Is it a stomp? Not sure there's arguments for both sides here so I wouldn't call it a stomp.
Is it a stomp? Not sure there's arguments for both sides here so I wouldn't call it a stomp.
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I don't see how having Excaliblast makes it a stomp
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Okay. I will put it as a vote for Issei for him.
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For now I think I am giving this one to Issei under assuming that his mind read>her precog, Divide should be enough to even the AP difference, and that Issei have a much batter endurance than her
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@GoodDay
Why would Billingual be better than Instinct which actually shows her glimpses of what will happen in the future if she doesn't follow the optimal path?
I don't think so, given the fact that Saber literally has infinite stamina, can regenerate from anything short of decapitation or a crushed heart, and is constantly protected by armor and swirling mana.
Why would Billingual be better than Instinct which actually shows her glimpses of what will happen in the future if she doesn't follow the optimal path?
I don't think so, given the fact that Saber literally has infinite stamina, can regenerate from anything short of decapitation or a crushed heart, and is constantly protected by armor and swirling mana.
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I need one more vote, people.
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Sorry, my internet is really bad right now so I can't reply fast or browse at all.
Saber can still tear into him by using Excalibur Morgan at point blank range, grab Issei with tendrils of darkness, and teleport after him through the shadows.
Yes, but that won't happen. Devils have a tingly feeling when they're in close proximity with holy or light weapons and the better it is, the stronger the feeling is. So, Issei flies far into the air and avoids any contact with it. If he does so, none of those can happen. Except she can teleport into the air somehow and even in that case, she can't stay in the air. Besides, Saber can't catch Issei off guard in any way due to Pailingual. Also, correct me if I'm not remembering correctly, but Issei already fought and defeated someone from the Hero Faction with those abilities + he could absorb and reflect his attacks through his shadows and become intangible.
Saber Alter is shameless, tearing her clothes off won't do anything aside from make her a little more vulnerable.
Well, I didn't mean to imply she was going to run away or something, just asking if she has the same durability without her armor.
His boost power is clearly inconsistent since in the early volumes he goes from pleb to mid class demon while in later arcs like when using CCQ he doesn't use his boost that much and it doesn't make him literally a million times stronger. Divine Diving's power is the same. Saber has superior stamina due to having a effectively limitless supply of magical energy. He can't just use his wyverns to reflect literally everything, since he never does that he always tries to block or dodge attacks.
It's inconsistent, yeah. But how does that make him unable to become stronger than Saber? Nobody said he was going to become a million times stronger. Also, he spams Boost everytime except for the time when it was limited. It's almost as connected with him as oppai is. All of his wyverns can boost their power and transfer it to him, simultaneously halve Saber's stats and add it to his, plus him being able to boost himself. Wouldn't he outclass Saber in that aspect? It makes knocking her out with his attacks plausible. As for Divine Dividing, the only thing inconsistent about it is how much it halves speed, strength and stamina. It doesn't even matter if it's inconsistent though, it still reduces Saber's strength. It nullifies attacks from stronger opponents and reduces their strength as shown with Loki and Azi Dahaka. Vali is always confident of fighting stronger enemies because of the nature of his powers. He was mentioned to fight against and harm Azi Dahaka in his Balance Breaker. How else would a 7-B guy fight against a High 7-A to 6-C guy? Okay about the limitless stamina. He unlocked access to his wyverns against Euclid and he used Reflect. Check the fight again [I think it was the second one].
When has CCQ Issei show the ability to reflect High 7-A attacks? In his CCQ he has at most managed to reflect 7-A attacks nothing higher.
He hasn't, since he hasn't fought a God yet in this form but he'll probably do so in the current Rating Game. But like I said, Longinus work on stronger opponents. It has been shown for other Longinus as well, the effect might vary depending on the opponent's power but they still work anyway. Except you're talking about Zenith Tempest which clearly relies on the user's power [and even then, Dulio still has empathic hax], Regulus Nemea which is a defensive Longinus or the others we either haven't seen the full capabilities or haven't been shown yet. Even if you say that Issei can't reflect it [honestly, I heavily doubt this and I would like examples of Divine Dividing failing to work on a superior opponent or attack], he can still nullify it since it has worked on far superior opponents and attacks before. He didn't "manage" to reflect it if I'm remembering correctly, he did it easily and Euclid could spam Boost like him as well. In fact, how would the blast be High 7-A if Issei halves her power?
So what if Issei knows that Saber will spam Excalibur how does he counter a space distortion?
Affecting space is very normal in DxD. The characters do it and they tank attacks from each other. Issei warped space and punched holes in it with Sairaorg and they tanked hits from each other. Kiba can rip through space, and what his weapons do is clatter off Issei's armor without doing anything to him. Even when Xenovia was fodder, she ripped through space and she does it more easily now. Doesn't stop others from tanking attacks from her. Loki easily distorts space and tears through it, but they took casual hits from him. Fenrir easily ate apart distorted space, but the only reason he put Vali and Issei out of commission was his superior strength + God killing fangs. Arthur and Strada distorted space by releasing the pressure from their bodies, and Arthur can casually rip, distort and put holes in space, but they both survived their fight with a few scratches + some of the Gremory Group took casual attacks from Strada. And you know, Vali who's Issei's rival can affect space in different ways and he's not one-shotting or killing Issei that way at all.
Anyway, there are other cases of similar stuff but my point is that affecting space-time is common in DxD and nothing special here.
@GoodDaySir
I wouldn't say it's a stomp. If Issei loses, yeah he loses. Nothing stompish about this. Personally, the only problem I see is probably the High 7-A Excaliblast. So, I'm just going to wait for examples on why Divide won't work on it.
Also, sorry for the lengthy post. I had no idea it was this big.
Saber can still tear into him by using Excalibur Morgan at point blank range, grab Issei with tendrils of darkness, and teleport after him through the shadows.
Yes, but that won't happen. Devils have a tingly feeling when they're in close proximity with holy or light weapons and the better it is, the stronger the feeling is. So, Issei flies far into the air and avoids any contact with it. If he does so, none of those can happen. Except she can teleport into the air somehow and even in that case, she can't stay in the air. Besides, Saber can't catch Issei off guard in any way due to Pailingual. Also, correct me if I'm not remembering correctly, but Issei already fought and defeated someone from the Hero Faction with those abilities + he could absorb and reflect his attacks through his shadows and become intangible.
Saber Alter is shameless, tearing her clothes off won't do anything aside from make her a little more vulnerable.
Well, I didn't mean to imply she was going to run away or something, just asking if she has the same durability without her armor.
His boost power is clearly inconsistent since in the early volumes he goes from pleb to mid class demon while in later arcs like when using CCQ he doesn't use his boost that much and it doesn't make him literally a million times stronger. Divine Diving's power is the same. Saber has superior stamina due to having a effectively limitless supply of magical energy. He can't just use his wyverns to reflect literally everything, since he never does that he always tries to block or dodge attacks.
It's inconsistent, yeah. But how does that make him unable to become stronger than Saber? Nobody said he was going to become a million times stronger. Also, he spams Boost everytime except for the time when it was limited. It's almost as connected with him as oppai is. All of his wyverns can boost their power and transfer it to him, simultaneously halve Saber's stats and add it to his, plus him being able to boost himself. Wouldn't he outclass Saber in that aspect? It makes knocking her out with his attacks plausible. As for Divine Dividing, the only thing inconsistent about it is how much it halves speed, strength and stamina. It doesn't even matter if it's inconsistent though, it still reduces Saber's strength. It nullifies attacks from stronger opponents and reduces their strength as shown with Loki and Azi Dahaka. Vali is always confident of fighting stronger enemies because of the nature of his powers. He was mentioned to fight against and harm Azi Dahaka in his Balance Breaker. How else would a 7-B guy fight against a High 7-A to 6-C guy? Okay about the limitless stamina. He unlocked access to his wyverns against Euclid and he used Reflect. Check the fight again [I think it was the second one].
When has CCQ Issei show the ability to reflect High 7-A attacks? In his CCQ he has at most managed to reflect 7-A attacks nothing higher.
He hasn't, since he hasn't fought a God yet in this form but he'll probably do so in the current Rating Game. But like I said, Longinus work on stronger opponents. It has been shown for other Longinus as well, the effect might vary depending on the opponent's power but they still work anyway. Except you're talking about Zenith Tempest which clearly relies on the user's power [and even then, Dulio still has empathic hax], Regulus Nemea which is a defensive Longinus or the others we either haven't seen the full capabilities or haven't been shown yet. Even if you say that Issei can't reflect it [honestly, I heavily doubt this and I would like examples of Divine Dividing failing to work on a superior opponent or attack], he can still nullify it since it has worked on far superior opponents and attacks before. He didn't "manage" to reflect it if I'm remembering correctly, he did it easily and Euclid could spam Boost like him as well. In fact, how would the blast be High 7-A if Issei halves her power?
So what if Issei knows that Saber will spam Excalibur how does he counter a space distortion?
Affecting space is very normal in DxD. The characters do it and they tank attacks from each other. Issei warped space and punched holes in it with Sairaorg and they tanked hits from each other. Kiba can rip through space, and what his weapons do is clatter off Issei's armor without doing anything to him. Even when Xenovia was fodder, she ripped through space and she does it more easily now. Doesn't stop others from tanking attacks from her. Loki easily distorts space and tears through it, but they took casual hits from him. Fenrir easily ate apart distorted space, but the only reason he put Vali and Issei out of commission was his superior strength + God killing fangs. Arthur and Strada distorted space by releasing the pressure from their bodies, and Arthur can casually rip, distort and put holes in space, but they both survived their fight with a few scratches + some of the Gremory Group took casual attacks from Strada. And you know, Vali who's Issei's rival can affect space in different ways and he's not one-shotting or killing Issei that way at all.
Anyway, there are other cases of similar stuff but my point is that affecting space-time is common in DxD and nothing special here.
@GoodDaySir
I wouldn't say it's a stomp. If Issei loses, yeah he loses. Nothing stompish about this. Personally, the only problem I see is probably the High 7-A Excaliblast. So, I'm just going to wait for examples on why Divide won't work on it.
Also, sorry for the lengthy post. I had no idea it was this big.
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Excalibur Morgaan is very high end large mountain level even if it gets "halved" it would still be Large Mountain level. Excalibur Morgan>>>RinSaber>KiritsuguSaber which is the High 7-A Excalibur.
No because Sabers stats is literally that of a regular girl. She just uses her magical power to become the physically strongest servant in the holy grail war. If Issei takes them it won't matter since she has limitless magical energy so she regains them.
Vali fights those guys by powering up into his 7-A or 6-C form Divide has nothing to do with that. His fight against Azi Dakhan wasn't Vali dividing his strength until he was fodder it was him overpowering him in Lucifer mode. The only times Vali has divided the attacks of a superior opponents was in EJD or Lucifer mode with the compression thing, and that's something Issei can't do.
Issei can't beat Baraqiel in this form how would he beat gods? If Issei could reflect High 7-A attacks and Higher why would he bother going with other modes? Same with Vali if he could just divide until he wins why would he need other forms. Euclid can spam boost and is still just 7-A nothing different from Saber using mana burst.
Fair enough on the space distortion but doesn't change the fact that Issei's divide and reflect hasn't show being able to do anything against superior opponents. So Excalibur still one shots.
No because Sabers stats is literally that of a regular girl. She just uses her magical power to become the physically strongest servant in the holy grail war. If Issei takes them it won't matter since she has limitless magical energy so she regains them.
Vali fights those guys by powering up into his 7-A or 6-C form Divide has nothing to do with that. His fight against Azi Dakhan wasn't Vali dividing his strength until he was fodder it was him overpowering him in Lucifer mode. The only times Vali has divided the attacks of a superior opponents was in EJD or Lucifer mode with the compression thing, and that's something Issei can't do.
Issei can't beat Baraqiel in this form how would he beat gods? If Issei could reflect High 7-A attacks and Higher why would he bother going with other modes? Same with Vali if he could just divide until he wins why would he need other forms. Euclid can spam boost and is still just 7-A nothing different from Saber using mana burst.
Fair enough on the space distortion but doesn't change the fact that Issei's divide and reflect hasn't show being able to do anything against superior opponents. So Excalibur still one shots.
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Saber for the reasons above.
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>No because Sabers stats is literally that of a regular girl. She just uses her magical power to become the physically strongest servant in the holy grail war.
Thanks for confirming something i suspected but wasnt sure of for like two years now.
Thanks for confirming something i suspected but wasnt sure of for like two years now.
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Anyway 7-3, grace starts now.
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@Ramesses
But Divide can be spammed.
Okay on this one.
He's only 7-A in Juggernaut Drive, High 7-A in Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive and 6-C in Diabolos Dragon Lucifer. You might be right about this, but didn't Vali actually not use Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive since he was saving it for Rizevim? Can't really remember, to be honest. It might have been against Crom. Okay, he's 7-A in Balance Breaker later on and High 7-A in EJOD. I agree with the compression thing, he might have used that against Azi Dahaka. But didn't he use Divide on Loki's attacks?
Baraqiel was annoyed because of the thing with Akeno, so he was considerably stronger than normal. Issei said the power of his Cardinal Crimson form has increased due to him going DxD so I'm assuming there's a chance he will fight against Gods in that form. Of course, he has to go into other forms to properly match them. For example, if we say Triaina Issei could reflect Euclid's attacks, he'd still get stomped because of the overall difference in stats. Even Vali has trouble against people he can compress the attacks of. Okay, I agree with the Vali thing as well and the Euclid thing.
I'll vote for Saber only because of Excaliblast, if Vali didn't actually use Divide against Loki. I guess I'll check real quick for this.
But Divide can be spammed.
Okay on this one.
He's only 7-A in Juggernaut Drive, High 7-A in Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive and 6-C in Diabolos Dragon Lucifer. You might be right about this, but didn't Vali actually not use Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive since he was saving it for Rizevim? Can't really remember, to be honest. It might have been against Crom. Okay, he's 7-A in Balance Breaker later on and High 7-A in EJOD. I agree with the compression thing, he might have used that against Azi Dahaka. But didn't he use Divide on Loki's attacks?
Baraqiel was annoyed because of the thing with Akeno, so he was considerably stronger than normal. Issei said the power of his Cardinal Crimson form has increased due to him going DxD so I'm assuming there's a chance he will fight against Gods in that form. Of course, he has to go into other forms to properly match them. For example, if we say Triaina Issei could reflect Euclid's attacks, he'd still get stomped because of the overall difference in stats. Even Vali has trouble against people he can compress the attacks of. Okay, I agree with the Vali thing as well and the Euclid thing.
I'll vote for Saber only because of Excaliblast, if Vali didn't actually use Divide against Loki. I guess I'll check real quick for this.
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>voting for saber only because of Excalibur
To be honest that's like 90% of why im voting.
To be honest that's like 90% of why im voting.
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Loki releases a wave of magical-power which is glowing in a rainbow colour. Vali makes his wings bigger, and it seems like he is planning to take it head on.
[DivideDivideDivideDivideDivideDivideDivideDivide!!]
The Divine-Dividing's ability was activated, and Loki's attack continues to get smaller.
Isn't this the normal Divide? But he couldn't get rid of everything since there were many magical attacks.
@J-Man
Yeah.
[DivideDivideDivideDivideDivideDivideDivideDivide!!]
The Divine-Dividing's ability was activated, and Loki's attack continues to get smaller.
Isn't this the normal Divide? But he couldn't get rid of everything since there were many magical attacks.
@J-Man
Yeah.
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At that point Saber would need to excaliblast in cqc at point blank then like against Herc.
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Yeah that is normal divide my bad, but that's still Lokis casual attack isn't it? And he didn't spam divide against any other superior opponent to my knowledge so it doesn't change much.
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Someone close this thread and add the results.
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Not sure if it's the normal Divide, but if it is, would that be possible if Issei flies far into the air?
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Actually nwm I'm an idiot Vali uses Half Dimension there so yeah he can't divide spam her attacks.
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Lol yeah, I just confirmed now. Issei said something like "Is that the technique that halves anything in his territory?" hinting that it was Half Dimension. It's the one that ignores durability.
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