Ryougi Shiki Tier

[Matthew_Schroeder]

... Or it could simply just end.

You know, like the most accepted real-world theory about dimensions says it does? You could reach the 11th Dimension and there could be nothing afterwards.

Is that really harder to imagine than literal infinite spatial dimensions? A finite cosmos is more plausible than an infinite one without proof for the later.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Alright. When I was initially reading the way it was worded, I read "Existing above all theories of dimensions". Atop all theories in every dimension is a bit vague, I see it now.

Well, if that's really how it's worded, then we can dismiss that.

My only problem with their tiering now is that the "possibly far higher part" comes from scaling to our own multiverse, which is something that we never do, as far as I know.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I would prefer to remove that, yes.

 

[ProspectX]

Is that really harder to imagine than literal infinite spatial dimensions? A finite cosmos is more plausible than an infinite one without proof for the later.

As i said, the realm of physics potentially stretches to infinity, no matter what Verse.

Everything is not a specific locality or "higher"-layered world.

In other words, Everything is Everything.

Your defintion of "simply just end", is like hitting a wall. But it doesnt, because there will always be a bigger circumference than the observed one.

How do you think a system of reference, is even existing? If there is not something to refer from, or to.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Just remove the entire Akasha profile tbh. It's not even a character, it's a place.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

There is a note on the Akasha profile already explaining that Akasha is a person. I don't know how valid it is, but it seems like a problem in the past occurred where people wanted the profile removed because it wasn't a person. So that suggestion probably isn't the best one.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I also don't understand how a mere mentioning of the word "super-dimensional"/"hyper-dimensional" is the main reason why the Choushin are 1-A instead of 1-B. But perhaps I'll cover that in a later thread.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Akasha isn't a person at all, where is that stated? It's a place, something that magi want to reach for various reasons.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

"Akasha has never actually appeared in any Type-Moon work to date (Only mentioned a few times). Akasha has been described to be the "force" of everything, being capable of making Shiki its own avatar and granting any of her wishes, so, is irrelevant to say that Akasha isn't a "Character", a "metaphysical location" or just the "void" surrounding the Nasuverse."

 

[ProspectX]

What? It's a force, that's all needed. If it has a projection of the "purpose" or some sort, then that suffice.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Where is that from? If it's from the TM wiki then there's no point in using it considering that it's mostly falsified/fanfiction. Give me an actual source like Materials or the VNs as proof. Otherwise, remove that part from the profile.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

No, Regis, it's a note on Akasha's page in this wiki. And it kind of makes sense. If it is sentient enough to make an Avatar, then it is probably a character.

I didn't put the note there, you would have to ask someone who did.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Akasha isn't a person at all, where is that stated? It's a place, something that magi want to reach for various reasons.

Yeah, Akasha is a place. It's like making a profile for TOAA's Heaven and ranking it at 1-A.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Then remove it if it doesn't have a source. It's not a character and has never been and Void Shiki is just one big question mark, so using that to say Akasha is a character is just wrong. Fanon is one thing but to use it in our profiles is very strange considering that we do mostly rely on canon feats and stuff.

 

[ProspectX]

It exists as a force, what makes the purpose of the article so ambiguous?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

The note says that because Akasha can make Shiki it's avatar and grant her wishes saying that it's a place and not a character is irrelevant... Except Void Shiki is not Akasha's avatar. She's connected to it. She draws her powers from it and can use them to grant her wishes, but Akasha itself doesn't do anything except exist and be connected. Akasha is a place ffs. It does not have a mind, a body, or a soul, and it certainly cannot make avatars.

I mean shit, even in Grand Order Void Shiki has the Connection to the Root skill, instead of Avatar of Akasha or something like that.

 

[ProspectX]

The thing is that. Indexing the statistics of something have nothing to do with if it's a specific being, or not.

Also, Akasha is fundamentally of importance to the Nasu verse.

 

[RegisNex1232]

It's relevant as a force, a goal, a plot point, not as a plot relevant character. Make it like a blog page about Nasuverse magic and put it there, but don't tier it since it's not something that fights or has sentience.

 

[OIYIG]

Funny thing when I mentioned this like more than 2 years ago everybody was disagreeing with me, but now suddenly people are starting to agree that Akasha is more of a place than a being.

 

[Aizenishere]

So then where in the hell did " it is a godlike entity that resides in the Akasha Stratum, and has access to the Akashic Records, which is the source of all events and phenomena in the universe. Existing outside of time, it stores and archives information of all possibilities and events, past, present, and future, of the Nasuverse."

^come from?

TM bull I presume?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Type-Moon wiki is full of shit and should only be used for finding any relevant sources. If you want actual translations and a better understanding go to Beast's Lair.

 

[ProspectX]

don't tier it since it's not something that fights or has sentience.

That is completely incorrect. But whatever, if the wikia has done so until now I don't really care, for now at least.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Then prove that it does. Void Shiki is something completely different from Akasha having an actual personality so yeah, it is compeletely false.

 

[ProspectX]

You dont get it, such humanistic reasoning does not determine what "Akasha" even is doing.

Anyhow, i said dont really care for now at least. Since the staff decided it.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Well, I'm not knowledgeable on the subject, and the pages seem extremely outdated, so I can't really help. Mind me.

 

[Aizenishere]

@Regis

So in order to have a profile you need to either have sentience or be something that's ablse to fight?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

@Regis

So in order to have a profile you need to either have sentience or be something that's ablse to fight?

I desperately want to say yes, but the fact that we have a Composite Tree profile kinda shoots that down.

Doesn't mean we should start making profiles for places that do nothing except exist though. Unless you want to make a profile for the White House and Buckingham Palace?

 

[ProspectX]

Sorry, you guys are completely missing the point. You are reluctant to articles that describe some force which isnt described in a way that reflects the behavior a bit, of universal life as you know it.

"Personality" and "sentience" as humans describe it, is not even close to describing the actual sentience of higher-dimensional beings/forces.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Akasha isn't a being at all, how many times do I have to say this? It's a place from which Nasuverse magic derives from, but it isn't a being at all.

 

[ProspectX]

Then i will repeat, what i said : It's "Existing" as a force.

Basically, in higher-dimensions, the process for representing "characteristics", is not at all determinable on such humanistic reasonings as yours, so it may be a "force existing atop theories". But the reflection of it's actual imagery still has.....a kind of sentience.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Akasha having a profile is like giving the Big Bang a profile.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Then i will repeat, what i said : It's "Existing" as a force.

Basically, in higher-dimensions, the process for representing "characteristics", is not at all determinable on such humanistic reasonings as yours, so it may be a "force existing atop theories". But the reflection of it's actual imagery still has.....a kind of sentience.

Then perhaps you'd like to share where this 'Force' did anything of its own volition. Where it did stuff that one can point to and say 'Hey! This has some sentience!'.

 

[KarmodF]

Akasha having a profile is like giving the Big Bang a profile.

Uhh...

 

[ProspectX]

Again, you guys are too reluctant and concive too much within your humanistic box.

Everything can be explained by the laws of nature, because otherwise a event is not even physically possible.

These physical constants of this universe, are seen by higher-dimensional beings as their play toys, they can characterise the so called sentience and total behavior of this universe aswell. The big bang does also have "sentience", of course.

But, as i already said. I do not care for now, because articles have been done for a very long time and this rule dont seem to intend to change.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Akasha having a profile is like giving the Big Bang a profile.

Not really an accurate analogy, seeing as the Big Bang is an event and not a place, and we already have profiles for events like that. Your previous example of TOAA's Heaven is better.

Anyway, i say we wait until Reppu, Kami, and maybe Prom and Ramesses if they feel like it, give their input before deleting the page. I don't think they'll disagree, but better safe than sorry.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I too remember the day when we instantly upgraded the Chaos Gods to 1-A for transcending all laws of physics and being beyond and cosmological model mankind could currently think up.


Oh wait.

I don't.

Because we didn't.

Because even that was considered something far too nebulous and unreliable for such an extremely high tier.


I feel like 1-A is tied with 4-A for "tier people jump the gun on the most based on almost nothing".

 

[Aizenishere]

@Regis

So in order to have a profile you need to either have sentience or be something that's ablse to fight?

I desperately want to say yes, but the fact that we have a Composite Tree profile kinda shoots that down.
Doesn't mean we should start making profiles for places that do nothing except exist though. Unless you want to make a profile for the White House and Buckingham Palace?

Weapons do nothing but exist. Yet we have profiles for those. The case is made "Well weapons are used" well... Akasha is a source of power. Why not just put a weapons info in the Profiles of the wielders?

To clarify I do agree Akasha shouldn't have a profile. But one, my question above was a genuine question since I wanted to know the standard so using two buildings as an example was a bit uh.. ??? and secondly, if places can't have profiles merely because they don't do anything then why do weapons? Without a wielder they themselves are nothing. Nor will they do anything.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This thread reminds me of this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/

 

[Ryukama]

I feel like 1-A is tied with 4-A for "tier people jump the gun on the most based on almost nothing".

Also Low 2-C. I see way too many people jump to that tier for people who only show basic reality warping.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also Low 2-C. I see way too many people jump to that tier for people who only show basic reality warping.

That's definitely another good contender.