RWBY Scaling

[TheRustyOne]

Base Cinder should scale to Ruby with Silver Eyes as it was stated that Base Cinder with no Maiden Power should have effortlessly beaten Ruby but lost to her because of the Maiden's power.

As said here

There's no reason why Base Cinder shouldn't scale especially since the Maiden's power is very weak against the Silver Eyes, Salem called it a crippling weakness in fact.

 

[Hizack123]

Umm..i think cinder PS with Grimm dragon though.

 

[TheRustyOne]

What?

 

[Hizack123]

"At least Multi-City Block level+ (Equal in power to Glynda Goodwitch, almost killed Ruby in the first episode and then stomped her in a later episode, has half of the power of the Fall Maiden) | Small Town level (Comparable, if not superior to the Grimm Dragon. Killed Pyrrha Nikos and Ozpin. While extremely exhausted, weakened, and significantly holding back, casually killed a Berringel, one of which gave Ruby a difficult fight)" - from Cinder profile.

 

[Kaltias]

I'll just quote myself from the thread where Base Cinder was downgraded.

With the full power of Amber she scale from the Grimm Dragon and that's fine, but half of 1,2 kilotons is 600 tons, so shouldn't half power Cinder be MCB+?

To put it in mathematical terms:

Cinder's power on her own = X

Amber's power = 2Y

Half of Amber's power= Y

Half power Cinder = X + Y

We know that X + 2Y= 1200 tons -> X= 1200 - 2Y

So Half Power Cinder = 1200 - 2Y + Y = 1200 - Y

Unless Amber's full power was at most 400 tons and Cinder's base was at least 800, Half power Cinder wouldn't be Small Town level.

 

[Hizack123]

I'll just quote myself from the thread where Base Cinder was downgraded.
With the full power of Amber she scale from the Grimm Dragon and that's fine, but half of 1,2 kilotons is 600 tons, so shouldn't half power Cinder be MCB+?

To put it in mathematical terms:

Cinder's power on her own = X

Amber's power = 2Y

Half of Amber's power= Y

Half power Cinder = X + Y

We know that X + 2Y= 1200 tons -> X= 1200 - 2Y

So Half Power Cinder = 1200 - 2Y + Y = 1200 - Y

Unless Amber's full power was at most 400 tons and Cinder's base was at least 800, Half power Cinder wouldn't be Small Town level.

Well that true, then add weak cinder between full power and before got full power then.

 

[Kaltias]

Cinder without powers had like, 2 minutes of screen time. A new key for it would be redundant and it would be just be a lower degree of MCB+

 

[Hizack123]

Lel

 

[TheRustyOne]

Kaltias why are you assuming Full Maiden Cinder is equal to the Grimm Dragon?

If Maiden Cinder was equal to the Grimm Dragon, Ruby would have killed her. Let's use some math here, Ruby with Silver Eyes is scaled to the Dragon which is 1.2 Kilotons that is correct?

Watts stated Cinder should be able to beat Ruby effortlessly without the Maiden's power. So how strong would you have to be to effortless beat someone who is 1.2 Kilotons?

Now let's say just for the sake of it that Cinder was only 2 times stronger then Ruby without the Maiden's power. (I'm just using some numbers)

Cinder would be 2.4 Kilotons, the Maiden's power raises this by a unknown amount as we have no idea how strong the Maiden's power actually is.

Ruby with the Silver Eyes almost kills Cinder. Normally this would be wrong as it doesn't make sense that Ruby could even scratch Cinder.

However this isn't normal, Cinder was almost killed because the Maiden's power are weak against the Silver Eyes. In fact her surviving even just barley shows that Base Cinder should have been stronger than Ruby, if not she would have died.

 

[Kaltias]

Because she was critically injured by an attack that hasn't actually killed the Grimm Dragon?

Because nobody has Town level feats which is were she would end up using this?

 

[TheRustyOne]

No she wouldn't Small Town's range is 1 Kiloton to 5.8 Kilotons she would still be Small Town level even if she was 4 times stronger.

Also stop ignoring what I'm saying, Cinder was injured by the attack because the Maiden's power are weak to the Silver Eyes. Think for just one second, if she was Multi-City Block level in her Base then why would Watts and Hazel agree she should have been able to beat Ruby's Silver Eyes explain that.

Also if it did make her town level it wouldn't matter, many characters from other verse have been upgraded like that.

 

[Jinx666]

I agree with Half Power Cinder = Low 7-C.

Say though, are there any calcs for Glynda's power when she summoned that giant Thunderstorm above the plane in a matter of seconds?

 

[Schnee_One]

Should the changes be applied?

 

[Jinx666]

I think so.

 

[Antvasima]

I would prefer if some staff members that are familiar with the series reply first.

 

[Thebluedash]

I was always somewhat iffy on Ruby's silver eyes rating to be honest.

"Little is known about their abilities, however in "End of the Beginning", Ruby Rose is told that when she unleashed her power, she "froze" the Grimm Dragon. It is later shown that she did so by turning it to stone. Although immobilized, the Dragon was not killed outright by Ruby's powers, and remains alive, continuing to draw Grimm to the area."

Ruby didn't kill the dragon, she froze it which honestly can be considered some type of hax instead. Seeing as the dragon is still alive.

So should Ruby even have the tier 7 rating at all?

 

[Elione-Arisu]

I agree with what Thebluedash said. Freezing the dragon seems like hax.

 

[Thebluedash]

http://rwby.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vol4op_00006.png

Grimm Dragon frozed (stone form).

 

[Davidsteel1]

Hmm I don't know if its total hax, Cinder was severely damaged by the SE herself and while I recognise that the eyes are technically Cinders kryptonite it still means the eyes do have some DC about them

 

[Thebluedash]

I mean sure it might of caused some sort of explosion, but the thing is Cinder is stated to be heavily affected by this attack. We don't know how much she would of been affected by normally. The attack itself dc wise might of been quite weak, but it still affects Cinder due to it being her kryptonite of sorts.

I believe we should wait for more info about Silver Eyes before giving it an attack potency.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Hm I agree, it may be best to wait for a bit more info about Ruby's sharin*cough*almighty*geass*coughsilver eyes*cough. Man I have something in my throat today.

 

[Ryukama]

@Blue I can agree with your thoughts regarding Ruby. Would Cinder still be Low 7-C?

 

[Thebluedash]

Base Form definitely no, I'm not sure about Maiden form.

One can argue she's comparable to the grimm dragon, but there's no real evidence for that.

Cinder is also stronger than Ozpin who is leagues beyond all the students.

I don't know tbh.

 

[Ryukama]

Alright. Maybe we can wait to see what others have to say regarding the subject then.

 

[Kaltias]

Cinder should still scale from the Grimm Dragon imo. IIRC Silver eyes are particularly effective against Grimm Creatures and Maidens, but the fact that she survived while the dragon was frozen means that she is somewhat comparable. Also she is still >>> her previous self which is >>>> Ruby

 

[LordAizenSama]

>Cinder is also stronger than Ozpin who is leagues beyond Ozpin.

uw0t

 

[Thebluedash]

>Cinder is also stronger than Ozpin who is leagues beyond Ozpin.
uw0t

Mistype ovo

 

[LordAizenSama]

OOOOoooOOOOoooOOOOooooOOOOooo I see.

I agree with TheBlueDash's points

 

[Ryukama]

@Kaltias If Ruby's Silver Eyes are just freezing/petrification hax, wouldn't Cinder surviving simply mean she's got much better resistance than Grimm Dragon? Not that this automatically indicates she punches as hard as GD?

 

[Kaltias]

I dunno tbh. I do think that they have some sort of AP, because iirc Qrow said that they can kill the Grimms, but i'm uncertain about it. One could also argue that petrification could be considered as "killing". The weird thing is the fact that the Dragon was frozen while Cinder was damaged.

 

[Davidsteel1]

I dunno tbh. I do think that they have some sort of AP, because iirc Qrow said that they can kill the Grimms, but i'm uncertain about it. One could also argue that petrification could be considered as "killing". The weird thing is the fact that the Dragon was frozen while Cinder was damaged.

My thoughts exactly. It should be noted however that the Grimm are still being defined- especially Kevin (the dragon)- y was it in the mountain in the first place? This is the first time we've ever seen a Grimm hurt severely and not outright killed, could this simply be the Grimm recovering? We don't have clear answers, it might be best to just wait for more info b4 making any judgements on this.

 

[Ryukama]

Again, this seems more like a hax in which Cinder was more resistant towards than GD. Not proof that she punches as hard as GD.

One thing to note is that Cinder needs to be 7 times stronger than Ruby to be Low 7-C. With her second key being twice the first one.

Maybe an "At least 8-A, possibly higher" or something. I don't know.

 

[Kaltias]

I guess "At least 8-A, possibly higher" could work. Wouldn't this downgrade her base form to "At least MCB" instead of "At least MCB+"?

 

[Ryukama]

If that's agreed upon, then yes that would be the case.

As said I'm not entirely sure. And I need to head out soon. So I'm fine with what other knowledgable users decide is best.

 

[Davidsteel1]

I'm not denying it seems more hax than straight up AP, but Cinder was scarred badly and even lost a limb to this thing suggesting it has some AP. But I also recognise that there's far too little info on the SE and that's y I'm suggesting we hold off for a bit it'll be much easier- not to mention far more accurate- to judge this when we know exactly what we're judging.

And considering that the SE are specified to be particularly deadly to maidens, I'm dubious as to whether it's a simple resistance.

 

[Ryukama]

Freezing/petrification hax is capable of dealing damage to one's body. But it does so through negating their durability.

Why not? That has no correlation. If Superman survives kryptonite does that mean a green rock now has Solar System level AP? A Maiden surviving SE which they are especially weak to does not mean SE is AP.

If anything this concept of "Maidens are weak against SE" makes it seem more like hax. If SE was simply an AP attack, how could one have a specific weakness against it that isn't dependent on raw strength?

 

[Elione-Arisu]

I'm fine with Kaltias' suggestion

 

[Davidsteel1]

@Ryu I don't know man, I'm personally against judging this based on barely any info. But it's not up to me I guess.

 

[Ryukama]

Making Ruby Low 7-C is already judging this based on barely any info.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I agree with Ryukama, I was already thinking this myself.