Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,070
- 9,042
That's for revenge so of course she didn't hold back
Also her semblance is basically precognition so that's how neo was basically confused on why her hits were getting dodged and countered even though she is a old lady
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
RWBY revisions
- Thread starter Theglassman12
- Start date
- Status
Also her semblance is basically precognition so that's how neo was basically confused on why her hits were getting dodged and countered even though she is a old lady
- 7,333
- 2,059
My point is that Neo lost badly. She achieved literally nothing and was floored.
Also it’s funny you guys are saying Penny isn’t holding back against the Ace Ops despite them being her friends and them not fighting to the death.
But Neo is holding back despite being floored and wanting to kill this person.
Also it’s funny you guys are saying Penny isn’t holding back against the Ace Ops despite them being her friends and them not fighting to the death.
But Neo is holding back despite being floored and wanting to kill this person.
- 11,253
- 13,159
Base Benny was not ragdolling them, when they cleary hurt her. You act like Base Penny handle them with her eyes closed, and with zero effort. You either scale or you don't, there is no in-between in these situations. Why is anyone in RWBY scaling to anyone, please explain it to me? If you don't break someone Aura or overpower them in a fight, you can't scale to them no matter how many times you hit them.
With the video above, yep... This is how someone reacts when they get hit by an attack that is only 0.07% of their durability? Base Penny being over 1000X stronger than them is absurd, Maiden Penny does easily stomp them. No one scales to the Maidens from what I've seen.
So either 7-C is an outlier for Base Penny and comparable characters, or it can be used for them. Let's stop trying to make every single action here just PIS, that Penny lowers her durability so they can hurt her... Because she feels sorry for them?
Base Penny is not a God Tier, unless, is there a clip of her casually one shotting a character on the Ace-Ops level? Base Penny, no Maiden powers.
- 7,333
- 2,059
I’ve actually made a thread about character scaling recently. I don’t think just doing the most bare minimum and achieving literal nothing is enough to scale. Getting stomped doesn’t have characters scale, the same should be true in reverse.
The Ace Ops barely inconvenienced her. A weapon that failed to do anything to maidens completely wrecked Ironwood, who is somewhat superior to team Rwby. Cinder completely toys with them. A random mercenary nearly kills Maria in her prime and yet hilariously past her prime Maria toys with Neo. Emerald needs to threaten some important tech to flee from Penny.
One fight scene that has the characters achieve nothing until they use hax should not be enough to scale when every other maiden related thing has them constantly wreck the non maidens. Also the wonky scaling it makes. Maria immensely past her prime, A random mercenary, and random centipede Grimm would stronger than both the Grimm Dragon (which threatened everyone) and the Grimm Leviathan (which threatened to destroy a city unless killed by a mech nobody scales to). Heck Maria was there when the Grimm Leviathan attacked. With the current scaling she would have been able to effortlessly kill it. And before you say it should just scale to 7-C, the leviathan instantly died to 8-A attack.
It doesn’t need to be an outlier for the maidens they are easily winning 1v4s against these people. People that don’t have any feats of their own anywhere close to what the maidens did back to back.
The Ace Ops barely inconvenienced her. A weapon that failed to do anything to maidens completely wrecked Ironwood, who is somewhat superior to team Rwby. Cinder completely toys with them. A random mercenary nearly kills Maria in her prime and yet hilariously past her prime Maria toys with Neo. Emerald needs to threaten some important tech to flee from Penny.
One fight scene that has the characters achieve nothing until they use hax should not be enough to scale when every other maiden related thing has them constantly wreck the non maidens. Also the wonky scaling it makes. Maria immensely past her prime, A random mercenary, and random centipede Grimm would stronger than both the Grimm Dragon (which threatened everyone) and the Grimm Leviathan (which threatened to destroy a city unless killed by a mech nobody scales to). Heck Maria was there when the Grimm Leviathan attacked. With the current scaling she would have been able to effortlessly kill it. And before you say it should just scale to 7-C, the leviathan instantly died to 8-A attack.
It doesn’t need to be an outlier for the maidens they are easily winning 1v4s against these people. People that don’t have any feats of their own anywhere close to what the maidens did back to back.
Last edited:
- 8,127
- 12,355
Here’s a question:
What is more consistent. The Ace Ops being comparable to Penny in this fight, or any other encounter with Maidens and Non-Maidens?
That is the main dilemma here.
What is more consistent. The Ace Ops being comparable to Penny in this fight, or any other encounter with Maidens and Non-Maidens?
That is the main dilemma here.
- 11,253
- 13,159
Here, Base Penny, Base Cinder, and Winter seem to fight pretty evenly. Until she uses her Maiden powers, and starts man handling them.
Base Penny doesn't really fight in these volume, so it's impossible to tell how she compares outside of her Cinder and Ace-Ops fight.
There was a Grimm that was too powerful for her to defeat, so they used a plan to tear off its tusk and impale it with it. But no one scales to that Grimm.
Base Penny doesn't really fight in these volume, so it's impossible to tell how she compares outside of her Cinder and Ace-Ops fight.
There was a Grimm that was too powerful for her to defeat, so they used a plan to tear off its tusk and impale it with it. But no one scales to that Grimm.
- 7,333
- 2,059
10 seconds into the video and not only was winter fleeing from Cinder but Penny was also easily over powered and was straight up, by all definitions, ragdolled. In the two v one scene every time she does hit them they get completely chunked and she’s just monologueing to their faces.
Plus that means Non maiden Penny and Winter would be comparable to Cinder despite Cinder defeating maiden Penny (though lost earlier so let’s go with comparable) and maiden Winter being comparable to Cinder.
That being used as evidence for scaling just makes the scaling chain even wonkier.
Plus that means Non maiden Penny and Winter would be comparable to Cinder despite Cinder defeating maiden Penny (though lost earlier so let’s go with comparable) and maiden Winter being comparable to Cinder.
That being used as evidence for scaling just makes the scaling chain even wonkier.
- 11,253
- 13,159
Winter cut off her Grimm arm, which doesn't get covered by Aura. Which is strong enough to block a punch from Base Penny. Yes it is a sharp weapon, but you aren't cutting off the limb of a character who is over 1000X stronger than you.
Base Cinder fought with Base Penny, so she should scale right? Maiden Cinder was even with Maiden Penny, so obviously their base should scale to each other.
Winter can also trade blows with Base Cinder, and even take hits from her. Cinder gets angry enough to use her Maiden powers to defeat them, and they clearly tired her out. She's even breathing heavily, after tossing them out. Which means they pushed her Base form.
Base Cinder fought with Base Penny, so she should scale right? Maiden Cinder was even with Maiden Penny, so obviously their base should scale to each other.
Winter can also trade blows with Base Cinder, and even take hits from her. Cinder gets angry enough to use her Maiden powers to defeat them, and they clearly tired her out. She's even breathing heavily, after tossing them out. Which means they pushed her Base form.
- 7,333
- 2,059
But then that would have Non maiden Penny scale to maiden Penny. Penny scales to herself but immensely stronger?
Also you guys love to focus on the scenes they ‘do stuff’ (that’s my way of air quotes because the only damage they did was to a the Grimm arm which I’ll talk about soon). And ignore all the scenes that have Cinder completely plow through them like they aren’t even there. The very second the video begins Winter is already fleeing in panic and a couple seconds later Cinder effortlessly overpowers Penny and rag dolls her like a toy. Then every time Cinder hits them they go flying like the beans from the killer bean movie, just go completely limp and rag doll.
When it comes to the Grimm arm remember the writers want these characters to be glass canons. They have teams they own say so straight out loud. While it is contradicted, it’s still the writer’s thought process. Cinder’s arm doesn’t have aura, the writers want them to be glass canons, they made a big deal of it not having aura during the Raven fight (it didn’t amount to much but they stopped to point it out).
Scaling to the arm is very shaky at best because the writers want these people to be glass canons, and say as such multiple times. It’s made even worse with the scaling non sense this creates all over the place (nonsense that doesn’t have to exist unless we enforce it to exist) and how Cinder was throwing these people around like they were made of air. Winter ended up hospitalized after that fight, them scaling from that is ridiculous. Plus why would Penny even give Winter the maiden powers to help her defeat Ironwood if she scales to maidens?
I’ll make a giant list of how this throws the scaling all over the place if you want me too because the in verse scaling is out the window if they do.
Also you guys love to focus on the scenes they ‘do stuff’ (that’s my way of air quotes because the only damage they did was to a the Grimm arm which I’ll talk about soon). And ignore all the scenes that have Cinder completely plow through them like they aren’t even there. The very second the video begins Winter is already fleeing in panic and a couple seconds later Cinder effortlessly overpowers Penny and rag dolls her like a toy. Then every time Cinder hits them they go flying like the beans from the killer bean movie, just go completely limp and rag doll.
When it comes to the Grimm arm remember the writers want these characters to be glass canons. They have teams they own say so straight out loud. While it is contradicted, it’s still the writer’s thought process. Cinder’s arm doesn’t have aura, the writers want them to be glass canons, they made a big deal of it not having aura during the Raven fight (it didn’t amount to much but they stopped to point it out).
Scaling to the arm is very shaky at best because the writers want these people to be glass canons, and say as such multiple times. It’s made even worse with the scaling non sense this creates all over the place (nonsense that doesn’t have to exist unless we enforce it to exist) and how Cinder was throwing these people around like they were made of air. Winter ended up hospitalized after that fight, them scaling from that is ridiculous. Plus why would Penny even give Winter the maiden powers to help her defeat Ironwood if she scales to maidens?
I’ll make a giant list of how this throws the scaling all over the place if you want me too because the in verse scaling is out the window if they do.
- 11,253
- 13,159
Why does anyone scale to the Maidens, how about you explain how my scaling above means Penny scales to her Maiden self.
Just saying that doesn't prove your point, do not make claim without providing evidence towards your point.
Winter ran because Cinder is a Maiden, who we established is superior to everyone.
However Cinder didn't use her Maiden powers at first, because of that she was pushed so far that she became tired and was breathing heavily.
Base Penny is 7-C, unless you mean to say it's an outlier for Base Penny?
Base Penny is not some god tier character that easily stands above everyone, and could've one shotted anyone she fought (Sans Maidens) with zero effort.
Just saying that doesn't prove your point, do not make claim without providing evidence towards your point.
Winter ran because Cinder is a Maiden, who we established is superior to everyone.
However Cinder didn't use her Maiden powers at first, because of that she was pushed so far that she became tired and was breathing heavily.
Base Penny is 7-C, unless you mean to say it's an outlier for Base Penny?
Base Penny is not some god tier character that easily stands above everyone, and could've one shotted anyone she fought (Sans Maidens) with zero effort.
- 11,253
- 13,159
Actually let's hold for a minute, I realized something. One at a time here.
Question, if you believe Base Penny is 7-C. Does that mean Base Cinder is 7-C as well?
Question, if you believe Base Penny is 7-C. Does that mean Base Cinder is 7-C as well?
- 7,333
- 2,059
I’m just going to post what scaling this causes because I think it really highlights my problem with non maidens scaling.
Ignoring how Cinder can causally monologue on them in a 1v2 and and sends them flying limp every time she hit, and ignoring how she toyed with team Rwby in 1v4 and they couldn’t win even when they had a maiden who apparently was comparable even before being a maiden. Let’s focus only on how everyone scales.
Watts is currently thousands of times stronger than James, Tyrian, and Hazel used to be. Weird that not only would the scientists backstabber in Salem’s group is thousands of times stronger than all of his teammates. And if he wasn’t stronger apparently he loves to train constantly so he can become thousands of times stronger for zero reason once so ever. Thankfully James also apparently loves to hit the gym of screen because he would have been obliterated by Watts if he hadn’t.
The Ace Ops also would have been able to obliterate all of Salem’s forces, except Watts for some reason, if they had just attacked them earlier.
The Ace Ops were also thousands of times superior to Ironwood and Winter at one point. And Clover was also light years ahead
Maria in her prime would be untouchable to the maidens, and that means a group of random mercenaries would be hilariously superior to all the bad guys as well (they made her need to block, that means they scale). So all these mercenaries can clap not only maidens but some of the most powerful leviathan class Grimm. Maria can also clap these Grimm, but chose not to when it was about to destroy a city right in front of her.
Also despite leviathan class Grimm being the strongest class of Grimm a ton of random Grimm like the bird that fought Prime Maria and a centipede are superior to maidens.
Random students have also become thousands of times stronger as well like Flint, for no reason. Plus he was scared to go on the front lines against the Grimm in the battle for atlas despite being stronger than top leviathan Grimm.
Literally all of these can be avoided if they just don’t scale to the maidens. But the characters put up as good as a fight as those random mercenaries that got bodied by Maria, I guess they should scale.
Ignoring how Cinder can causally monologue on them in a 1v2 and and sends them flying limp every time she hit, and ignoring how she toyed with team Rwby in 1v4 and they couldn’t win even when they had a maiden who apparently was comparable even before being a maiden. Let’s focus only on how everyone scales.
Watts is currently thousands of times stronger than James, Tyrian, and Hazel used to be. Weird that not only would the scientists backstabber in Salem’s group is thousands of times stronger than all of his teammates. And if he wasn’t stronger apparently he loves to train constantly so he can become thousands of times stronger for zero reason once so ever. Thankfully James also apparently loves to hit the gym of screen because he would have been obliterated by Watts if he hadn’t.
The Ace Ops also would have been able to obliterate all of Salem’s forces, except Watts for some reason, if they had just attacked them earlier.
The Ace Ops were also thousands of times superior to Ironwood and Winter at one point. And Clover was also light years ahead
Maria in her prime would be untouchable to the maidens, and that means a group of random mercenaries would be hilariously superior to all the bad guys as well (they made her need to block, that means they scale). So all these mercenaries can clap not only maidens but some of the most powerful leviathan class Grimm. Maria can also clap these Grimm, but chose not to when it was about to destroy a city right in front of her.
Also despite leviathan class Grimm being the strongest class of Grimm a ton of random Grimm like the bird that fought Prime Maria and a centipede are superior to maidens.
Random students have also become thousands of times stronger as well like Flint, for no reason. Plus he was scared to go on the front lines against the Grimm in the battle for atlas despite being stronger than top leviathan Grimm.
Literally all of these can be avoided if they just don’t scale to the maidens. But the characters put up as good as a fight as those random mercenaries that got bodied by Maria, I guess they should scale.
- 11,253
- 13,159
At this point I'm going to say that Base Penny shouldn't be 7-C, the feat is an outlier for her and other Non Maiden character.
Jumping up by over 1000X seems a little too inconsistent for these characters. Especially when a Non Maiden character is performing a feat that is stronger than the Maidens own feat. So how about we fully drop Base Penny scaling to 7-C, and only have her Maiden self scale to it? Or we can drop the feat all together?
Also Maiden Penny struggles to lift Amity too, yet Base Penny could lift it as well? Maidens are suppose to be vastly superior to Non Maiden characters.
To be honest, it might be best to just scale
I never agreed with anyone scaling to the Maidens, I don't know why you believe that. I'm talking about Base Penny, do you know what I mean by Base?
Jumping up by over 1000X seems a little too inconsistent for these characters. Especially when a Non Maiden character is performing a feat that is stronger than the Maidens own feat. So how about we fully drop Base Penny scaling to 7-C, and only have her Maiden self scale to it? Or we can drop the feat all together?
Also Maiden Penny struggles to lift Amity too, yet Base Penny could lift it as well? Maidens are suppose to be vastly superior to Non Maiden characters.
To be honest, it might be best to just scale
I never agreed with anyone scaling to the Maidens, I don't know why you believe that. I'm talking about Base Penny, do you know what I mean by Base?
- 11,253
- 13,159
There's actually might be a problem with the Tier 7 calc actually.
When we see the monitor, we see that Amity is moving up, which is what I used to find the speed. But I'm not certain that screen is to scale, since when we're shown Penny lifting Amity in real time. Penny is just barely moving Amity up, so I think the speed I got might be incorrect.
Oh my... checking the real time speed. When we see her lifting it from the outside, it gave me 1.09 Tons, or 8-C results.
What should we do here?
When we see the monitor, we see that Amity is moving up, which is what I used to find the speed. But I'm not certain that screen is to scale, since when we're shown Penny lifting Amity in real time. Penny is just barely moving Amity up, so I think the speed I got might be incorrect.
Oh my... checking the real time speed. When we see her lifting it from the outside, it gave me 1.09 Tons, or 8-C results.
What should we do here?
- 8,127
- 12,355
Oh no
Sounds like we would have to rely on the Low 7-C feats then.
But dang
- 31,252
- 27,475
Sounds right. I had my doubts regarding the diagram on the monitor but couldn't think of a good way to address it. Seeing the clip of Penny lifting it in real-time makes it clear.
- 7,333
- 2,059
If the 7-C feat is nuked then that really does make things weird.
The low 7-C feat comes from fire, which doesn’t physically scale to characters anymore.
I’m not sure if we should calc Winter’s sandstorm dispersal then or if maidens the maiden’s should just have environmental destruction up scaling to the high 7-C (it wouldn’t be an outlier if it doesn’t scale and it would make sense with the Maidens’ main power being the control over the weather. Even environmental destruction can be useful if used correctly). With them physically being immensely superior to everyone else.
The low 7-C feat comes from fire, which doesn’t physically scale to characters anymore.
I’m not sure if we should calc Winter’s sandstorm dispersal then or if maidens the maiden’s should just have environmental destruction up scaling to the high 7-C (it wouldn’t be an outlier if it doesn’t scale and it would make sense with the Maidens’ main power being the control over the weather. Even environmental destruction can be useful if used correctly). With them physically being immensely superior to everyone else.
- 20,062
- 10,846
- Thread starter
- #220
Hold on I just woke up, are you telling me their best feat now is Cinder’s Low 7-C feat?
- 15,351
- 22,172
Didn’t Raven have some storm feat?
- 11,253
- 13,159
Yeah, she is clearly not moving that thing at 53.9 m/s. She is moving it, but very slowly. 0.45 m/s from what I measured, which is a lot slower.
But hey, Class G lifting strength should still be alright... Which doesn't scale to anyone since the only time anyone held Penny's thrusters was held back when she tried to go to the vault. Which took 8 characters working together to hold her in place (She was overpowering them), and she fighting the virus so I doubt she was using her full strength.
The Maidens do become physically stronger than using their power, if we apply the same energy source logic. That means Cinder should be able to put Low 7-C levels of energy into her physical strikes. But I'm not certain if that type of reasoning would be accepted here.
Last edited:
- 11,253
- 13,159
Either Outlier, since it is almost equal with Ozpin's hundreds of years worth of energy blast.
Or Environmental Damage, as it has no reason to scale to their physical strength.
- 20,062
- 10,846
- Thread starter
- #224
It’s an outlier considering Ozpin’s cane nuke feat exists and it’s comparable to, if not stronger than the nuke.
- 20,062
- 10,846
- Thread starter
- #226
Seems so
- 20,062
- 10,846
- Thread starter
- #227
I’ll add whatever’s accepted in a few hours.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,070
- 9,042
tbh I can completely believe the maidens being stronger then the KE nuke, given the maidens are ment to be like the top tiers of the verse to the point where ironwoods so called maiden killer was easily blocked by winter with the Maiden powers also no one scales to the maidens as most of the time cinder rarely ever uses her full power with maiden powers mainly because she doesn't need to and maiden penny one shot vol 7-8 neo, cinder broke jaune's sword and more examples of maidens overall just scaleing above about everyone
Also ozpin is weaker then the madiens, given he was killed by a new full power fall maiden cinder back in vol 3 and killed him through his forcefield. The same forcefield Oscar used to protect himself from the KE point blank range. Ozpin said himself that he isn't as strong as the madiens
- 20,062
- 10,846
- Thread starter
- #229
Ozpin gave them their powers to begin with, that's stated in his lore, but his prep time feat doesn't come close to where the storm calcs yield, if he can casually give them their power but struggle to get a feat that's almost 11 times weaker than their feat from literal centuries worth of time, there's a massive issue.
- 63,529
- 8,506
No offense, but you remembered this and didn't decide to use this as a feat to scale from?
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,070
- 9,042
Actually we have no idea what time ozpin made that cane or how long ago he made it, so you can't say that because we don't know
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,070
- 9,042
Also that really doesnt matter seeing as Long Memory isnt Ozpin's magic, it's just stored kinetic energy. The fact that Oscar's shield was able to block it only further proves that Oz's magic scales above Long Memory's nuke and the maidens scale above current ozpin
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,070
- 9,042
Still basic scaleing says otherwise, we see on screen Oscars magic shield shield protected him point blank range from the KE nuke, cinder with the full maiden powers killed ozpin though his magic shield
- 7,333
- 2,059
That creates an obvious circle. Ozpin takes decades of prep to preform a feat. He then creates something that face tanks that feat?
That ignores that’s he’s aiming the weapon away from himself and won’t be in the epicenter. Even being a few feet away can drastically decrease the results.
That ignores that’s he’s aiming the weapon away from himself and won’t be in the epicenter. Even being a few feet away can drastically decrease the results.
- 7,333
- 2,059
I’m going to be busy for a while so I just want to say Ozpin scales physically to his magic and being stronger than the maidens (in his prime). So the kinetic energy would scale to his magic. The scaling would be completely circular as his magic would be better than his kinetic energy, which scales to his magic.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,070
- 9,042
Ozma has been alive for tens of thousands of years and the cane is around that long, but that doesnt really matter as the energy is, again, Kinetic Energy, not magic. I don't know why youre arguing that its Oz's own magic being used when they flat out say that its not.
- 11,253
- 13,159
Ozpin is shown to be capable of physically matching Maiden Cinder in Volume 3. His kinetic/physical energy is inside of that cane, build up for hundreds of years, is should without a doubt be superior to anything he can physically accomplish. The cane is utterly pointless if he can punch just as hard as it.
Also, Cinder did not break Ozpin's shield. She killed Ozpin, but we have no idea if she broke through his shield or not. We didn't see her brake his shield, that is speculation. Ozpin doesn't have a lot of power left, he could've just gotten tired. She didn't stomp him, he fought with her pretty well.
Unless we're saying Ozpin doesn't scale to Cinder anymore, she held back or it was PIS?
Also, Cinder did not break Ozpin's shield. She killed Ozpin, but we have no idea if she broke through his shield or not. We didn't see her brake his shield, that is speculation. Ozpin doesn't have a lot of power left, he could've just gotten tired. She didn't stomp him, he fought with her pretty well.
Unless we're saying Ozpin doesn't scale to Cinder anymore, she held back or it was PIS?
- Status
