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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

Crabwhale said:
I should also point out that, under the current rules regarding off-site behavior, I haven't done anything actually punishment-worthy. If I'm to be punished anyway, so be it, but first someone will have to devise a new set of guidelines regarding this sort of thing, and then get approval to implement.
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Damage3245 said:
nothing Crabwhale has done has broken any site rules.
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That's sort of the headline here, and I believe that was Darksmash's point in bringing it up in the first place. Our site rules don't cover this, no more for Crabwhale than for Chase, and while the two are of a distinctly different character, the commonality is that it's offsite discord behavior that isn't currently addressed by any of our rules. So it's not about the moral assessment that it's awful to make r--- jokes or to use slurs in an ironic context, but whether or not our rules address this or if they should address it.

The problem is that this is getting mixed up with discussions of morality, as if the decision that it isn't the wiki's business is simultaneously a form of tacit moral approval of the behavior in question. That's just not the case. Discussions about what is right/wrong, and discussions about how we should run the forum, are entirely separate matters.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
We shouldn't be policing what people do on other sites, unless it directly impacts what happens here.
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Yeah and honestly, what chase did was on the AFBW server, nothing he does there has to do with VSBW at all, if he should be punished then the AFBW admins should do it not the entirely unrelated VSB

Now I can imagine everyone talking in the most formal way possible so they don't come to take ss and report them because someone rejected a thread and they are spited.

I'm against Chase being banned to begin with. And I don't want to hear the moralists on duty saying that what Chase said went too far, everyone has made jokes like that, even if they weren't specifically related to Lolis or the like. Even I have done it but with people that we are friends and they don't mind joking, I was even on AFB server and I saw chase's comments and no one seemed to mind because we know they are jokes, some stronger than others but they are still jokes and it doesn't hurt anyone.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
“Jokes don’t hurt anyone” is probably one of the most blatantly incorrect things said in this entire debacle, if I’m being honest
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I think the argument here from the opposing side is less "jokes don't hurt anyone" and more "jokes that I make in the privacy of my own friend group don't hurt anyone".
 
Dereck03 said:
Yeah and honestly, what chase did was on the AFBW server, nothing he does there has to do with VSBW at all, if he should be punished then the AFBW admins should do it not the entirely unrelated VSB
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Keep in mind this, are any of you moderators or administrators at AFBW? What right do you have to ban a user who makes jokes with his friends (and they do not mind) on another wiki's server on this wiki?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I’m honestly opposed to that because that tells me you could be an absolute piece of shit and suffer no consequences.
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I think it'd be prudent to cease this discussion for the time being as it's clear that

A) Our current rules do not cover this behavior and

B) The RVRT is not the ideal place to have a staff-referendum on whether or not they ought to.
 
Guys, as Celestial Pegasus said, our off-site rules are pretty clear on this:

  • Off-site behavior is usually irrelevant except in cases of:
    • Actions that lead to the destabilization of the site (such as videos, forum posts, Discord chats, etc. that create drama), whether or not it was systematic. To determine what counts as destabilization of the site one should mostly look at the consequences of said act rather than the individual act itself.
    • Threatening someone off-site, be it a threat of violence, hacking, doxxing, sexual harassment, etc.
    • Harassment of users in their immediate surroundings (ex. Someone constantly messaging you with insulting comments via DMs or PMs)
    • Engaging in online criminal activity (Not including piracy).
    • Impersonating someone for malicious purposes.

Honestly, if you look at that stuff at first glance, it looks bad, no question about that. But I feel like most of it has to do with dark shock-value humor. If we are banning people based on stuff they said on discord or their private space as jokes, then we'd have to ban a lot more people. Discord groups are full of stuff like that. This reminds me of the many jokes Zark used to make and I can guarantee a lot of people still make close to these kinds of jokes on discord. This will open up a very slippery-slope where we'd have everyone trying to find discord screenshots to get everyone else banned.

It also depends on whether all this was said in the vicinity of an underage user Chase was trying to harass, or just jokes between adults.

I'd like to hear what @Chasekilleen has to say in his defense. And if he is not doing stuff that violates our off-site rules, he should be left with a warning. Even if someone is not a good human being offsite, it's not our job to police them, as long as they abide by rules within the site.
 
Deagonx said:
I think it'd be prudent to cease this discussion for the time being as it's clear that

A) Our current rules do not cover this behavior and

B) The RVRT is not the ideal place to have a staff-referendum on whether or not they ought to.
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That’s fair enough. In addition, I think it was already said that only staff should continue to speak on this matter, as anything more would cause a ton of clutter
 
For the record I did not mean to suggest that Crabwhale should be punished, just that it is not good for a major representative of our community to use the n-word, even in private as a dark joke, so such behaviour should be avoided in the future.

Also, I am otherwise fine with AKM's decisions regarding these issues.
 
Antvasima said:
Anyway, I would prefer if we stop this extremely controversial argument immediately, and let our Human Resources group evaluate these issues in private. They will likely need to have a very serious talk with Crabwhale as well.
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Being toxic, edgy or bigoted off-site isn't something we really do (or should) police. What you say or do in other forums only counts when those things effect this forum (such as raiding or something).

Chase saying weird things ultimately just doesn't effect the site. We're not moral police or anything.
 
Reporting this user once again for the same reason as before.


Reference thread here


Nothing inherently wrong but BlackDarkness does in fact need to quit with his incredibly antagonistic and outright aggressive and insulting attitude. This has happened several times in the past and he's been warned many times for his uncalled for aggression.



Not advocating for a ban or anything of the sorts but it is increasingly annoying and abundantly disrespectful to read consistent comments from this user which are usually nothing but personal attacks.
 
Reading through some of the comments:

Bunch of crying as usual, you can never stop being so pitiful, only you were emotional when your waifu alucard argued back then to lose and threw a fit, keep it to yourself the wank and shut up

Reply back proves how mature you are little kid
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Coming from a wanker of alucard as you, that made a scene last time, you are the last one i wanna hear anything from

Keep it to yourself and shut up, also vs wiki ratings aren't accurate with all their stuff so zip it again
Click to expand...

Definitely not an appropriate way to conduct a debate. Most of his comments were fine, so I think it's important that he be reminded to keep a cool head even as disagreement and tension rises. Though depending on the full history of reports or infractions, perhaps a ban of short length is in order.

@BlackDarkness679

Edit: Apparently the user was banned for two-weeks for this same behavior as recently as three months ago, so perhaps something more serious is justified here.
 
Apologies for the interjection, but I would like to add that @BlackDarkness679 has been reported several times in the past for improper behavior (one, two, three, four) and their most recent report - which was three months ago - resulted in them receiving a ban for a week. They've received multiple instructions and warning messages to improve their behavior, yet they have continued to show aggression and misbehavior over the course of more than a year.

I won't say anything more than this one message, I thought I'd just give a little more insight into their behavior since it's been consistently poor for a while now.
 
Regarding the previous issue of Chase's discord behavior, I think the sentiment that a lot of people act far more unprofessionally off-site and would absolutely be banned if judged by their casual banter is more than true. As someone with a strong presence in VSBW's community off-site and on discord, it is hard for me to agree with a ban for this individual given what other people, including staff members, have said and done.

However I want to make it very clear that I do not believe the comments made were jokes. There was no punchline. There was no subversion, no clever irony, no unexpected one-two kick. The evidence provides shows only repeatedly processed love for underage girls.

I think the argument of "do not judge people off of jokes" is an abysmally horrible one. There's no joke here, not even a bad one. There's not even an attempt at a joke. If we are to make a ruling, it should solely be based off of our rules regarding off-site behavior and have absolutely nothing to do with the statements being ironic or joking, as they very obviously were not. Doing otherwise only sets a horribly low bar for going "it's just a prank bro" towards literally any offense.
 
Last edited:
Moritzva said:
Regarding the previous issue of discord behavior, I think the sentiment that a lot of people act far more unprofessionally off-site and would absolutely be banned if judged by their casual banter is more than true. As someone with a strong presence in VSBW's community off-site and on discord, it is hard for me to agree with a ban for this individual given what other people, including staff members, have said and done.

However I want to make it very clear that I do not believe the comments made were jokes. There was no punchline. There was no subversion, no clever irony, no unexpected one-two kick. The evidence provides shows only repeatedly processed love for underage girls.

I think the argument of "do not judge people off of jokes" is an abysmally horrible one. There's no joke here, not even a bad one. There's not even an attempt at a joke. If we are to make a ruling, it should solely be based off of our rules regarding off-site behavior and have absolutely nothing to do with the statements being ironic or joking, as they very obviously were not. Doing otherwise only sets a horribly low bar for going "it's just a prank bro" towards literally any offense.
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I think people just say "joke" as a catch-all term for "friendly interaction within a closed circle of acquaintances".

Otherwise, I agree with you.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to rape them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
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I would like to (briefly, I apologize) speak on this.

It is not our place to police what people say offsite. In the past I have made my own stance on that very clear but I will reiterate it- unless it is strictly relevant to us, we shouldn't give a flying **** what people think of other people. Quite frankly I know a few members on this wiki that I find greatly distasteful that you would almost certainly not- members who certainly fall into the broad definition of "degenerates".

Regardless, our concern is with the well-running of this wiki.

What does "relevant to us" mean? It means conflicts of interest in our staff. When it was found out that one of our staff members was a wretched, vile little man incapable of containing his racist bullshit, I pushed for his demotion. But it is not for me to push my thoughts onto a regular user, nor is it for anyone else, if that user is acting normally on our site. Please don't try to virtue signal the damned site into thinking it is our job to be moral wardens, aye.
 
Now that topic regarding Chase and off site comments has been resolved for now.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
First of all, back in summer 2020, the Bureaucrats and Super Mod were given a list of duplicate accounts with an Email Address overlap. It is very reliable, and whether or not ZaStando, Blitz, and Red are different people or not. It does not change the fact that they had a shared Email Address back then. And anyone could easily log to their accounts to change their Email Address. Also, I'm not saying he "Needs to talk over people all the time." But people talk over each other by accident when there is more than one person in the discussion. Now if someone had a conversation like like this just for fun, I could see merit.

Remember, to try to invalidate the reliable Fandom spreadsheet is to make arguing cases for Sera Ex's family members being legit family members, or about LordAizenSama making 5 socks to get around his permaban to troll the wiki and denying those obvious facts. Which I am pretty sure @AKM sama @Promestein and @Ryukama can vouch out Spreadsheet on our long list of Email address overlaps are very reliable. Although, since @Mr._Bambu is a Super Mod now, I suppose he also can see the Google Doc if I give it to him in PM.

As for Imagine Breaker, I will it admit I don't have the hardest cases, but I do remember a time when ZaStando make an alt, accidently posted on his wall warning himself not to be making alt accounts, but later Imagine Breaker posted the exact same post word for word mere seconds after ZaStando posted it on his own wall by accident and removed it. Plus, I'm sure @Maverick_Zero_X @ShadowWarrior1999 @ShakeResounding @The_Axiom_of_Virgo and @Theuser789 have better experiences than I do and can make cases about how too similar they are.
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I am late, but I also remember going through old reports when that is brought up although I am unaware of the topic regarding the individual member has been resolved or not.

In any case, I will stop commenting for the time being
 
Damage3245 said:
In fairness Chase was asked to give a defense for himself a while ago, but I agree that it's unnecessary at this point and we should just move on.
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Had not caught that, though the response does seem as though it would create... bickering. Best to move on regardless, given a verdict does seem as though it was reached.
 
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