Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Malomtek]

Furthermore, this isn't even an issue of me vs Mal; He has a problem with everyone, as multiple people who have previously commented on this thread can attest to.

I don't have a problem with "everyone". For example, I have made several comments in this Journey To The West thread without any particular incident.

Mal was deliberately instigating some form of conflict by calling arguments incoherent nonsense, saying a user is inventing fanfiction and calling them a hypocrite for it, and saying to the same user that they've been posting nothing but headcanon.

The "incoherent nonsense" quote was in response to a textwall that I found difficult to parse, the "headcanon" stuff was in response to an argument made without evidence or any sort of actual recourse to the text, that even other members of the Touhou supporting group said was a bad argument (not to mention that I've been told that calling something "headcanon" isn't "insulting" in this forum's terms), and the "you've just been posting headcanons" stuff was in rseponse to a very condescending comment made against me by Angelzewolf.

And since me being outright called a "liar" and a deliberate distorter of data was dismissed as "not directly antagonizing" by a staff member, I wonder if the same standard will apply here.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Apparently neither of you thought I was being serious when I said this, so fine.

You two have guaranteed yourselves, at the very least, a temporary topic ban from all Touhou threads from me. The length of time and any further disciplinary measures may be noted later.

And while this may seem unfair to Mokou, keep in mind that while Malomtek certainly is being aggressive to all parties involved and he does indeed deserve a harsher sentence from everything I can see here, Mokou allowed herself to be goaded in multiple threads and lashed out at Malomtek so harshly that he then sent a DM to several of the staff about it. I said before to not let him goad her on, and she clearly did not ever remotely take that to heart. Both of these two refused to remain neutral, and now they will both suffer because of it. Heck, there is an obvious bias towards Malomtek, regardless of what anyone says, and I am saying now to drop it. Whether or not it is deserved is a non-factor, I refuse to allow this kind of behavior to ensue further.

I mean no personal offense to either of you when I say this, but I am sick and tired of hearing the both of you whine about each other. Really, I just want this to be resolved for good somehow, in one way or another.

I know normal users are not supposed to comment here without much to add, but considering I was dragged in here by Malom and was part of the thread that this all took place in, I think I should be free to say this at least.

I personally think it's very, very ridiculous that YesMokou is supposed to receive a punishment for something that she has deliberately done everything in her power to avoid. She spent the entire topic ban slowly building CRTs and points to help revise a verse and is having all of that work essentially spat on by someone who repeatedly joins threads, ignores and disrespects everyone present, never brings evidence in a CRT (something that by our own rules is required to do), and generally has a history of causing issues on this board, and is expected to not reply to them at all despite that? It's very, very difficult to remain neutral when you are consistently disrespected and have your efforts stepped on by an individual who is getting away with more than they should imho. Frankly his behavior and complete deluding of the CRT in the first place should be an infraction of some kind.

If a user is so problematic that other users have to be told "not to be goaded into replying to them", wouldn't it be best to just outright remove the problem user in the first place instead of allowing otherwise inoffensive and active users of the wiki to be dragged down with them? This kind of behavior wouldn't occur in the first place if the main one causing the problems was simply nipped in the bud.

I understand this is completely your decision as a mod, all I ask is that you at least reconsider topic banning YesMokou, it's a little demoralizing to think that any normal user could be topic banned for an extended period of time over another user antagonizing us and defending ourselves. Please don't take any of this disrespectfully, either.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Frankly, I'm tired of both of Mokou and Malomtek at this point. Period.

However, several good points were raised, and I know Mokou tends to mostly be in here due to reacting to Malomtek's prodding.

So fine, if a ban is decided upon for Malomtek, I will likely relent on the topic ban as well. If you want me to be frank, this was just purely my exhaustion on the matter showing. Because, again, I'm tired of hearing about it and I want this solved.

 

[Malomtek]

I personally think it's very, very ridiculous that YesMokou is supposed to receive a punishment for something that she has deliberately done everything in her power to avoid.

But she hasn't.

someone who repeatedly joins threads

...Okay?

ignores and disrespects everyone present

I don't remember ignoring anyone who makes replies against me, and I do remember certainly making every effort to be respectful in the "Touhou Infinite Speed Bad" thread, only to see YesMokou lash out at me. This new hullaballoo basically began when I responded to this Antvasima comment:

Also, Malomtek, please remember to continuously do your best be polite and not provoke others.

With this:

Sir, you personally know of the ways that these people have been nothing but nakedly hostile towards me and accusing me of every type of dishonesty under the sun ("lying", "misinterpreting evidence", etc.). I'm trying to be as polite and un-provoking as possible (especially given the circumstances), but these people clearly aren't giving me the same courtesy. In fact, they're clearly all showing attitude towards me simply on the fact that I'm present here and arguing against them.

Which FujiwaraYesMokou responded with:

This is a particularly rich statement from somebody who has been banned twice, warned countless times, and repeatedly reported on the RVR for this exact behavior. Deflect all you like, but that will not change the fact that people are very quickly starting to grow sick of your behavior.

And others responded with:

Stop being a hypocrite and crying janitor wolf every single time. You've been warned and banned enough times for trying to play the victim, even though you yourself have been condescending and rude towards the supporters of this verse. Didn't you literally compare us to a hivemind before?

I could make jokes. I could throw insults or be snarky, but I'll continue to try and respect Ant's wishes. No matter how difficult it may be. So, I'll answer sincerely and respectfully.

You are part of the problem. You cannot picture yourself getting banned, warned, reported, and still somehow deflect and blame others. You're not the only part of the problem, but you play a big role. Whether intentional or not, you automatically grow hostile, automatically gain an attitude, and everything you get upset about. You do in a near instant. Instead of debating by bringing canon material that contradicts said evidence. You instead try devaluing the supporting side by labeling everything as nonsense. (Headcanon, misinterpreting, etc). It's frustrating for people to go scan hunting just for someone to dismiss it with no evidence besides "logic".
Like I said, you're not the only problem. Those you face should also be respectful and what not. But you're not innocent, you make it difficult for us as we do for you. I'm pretty sure every mod who visits Touhou knows you're also the problem, much like a few of the supporting side are as well. We can all try respecting each other. But that is if everyone cooperates and plays on even grounds.

It just went downhill from there.

If a user is so problematic that other users have to be told "not to be goaded into replying to them"

The funny thing is, I don't "goad" people into responding to me.

I make commentary on a thread, I respond to comments, and they respond back. It's very simple.

Frankly, I'm tired of both of Mokou and Malomtek at this point. Period.

However, several good points were raised, and I know Mokou tends to mostly be in here due to reacting to Malomtek's prodding.

So fine, if a ban is decided upon for Malomtek, I will relent on the topic ban. If you want me to be frank, this was just purely my exhaustion on the matter showing. Because, again, I'm tired of hearing about it and I want this solved.

I wasn't really "prodding" YesMokou, nor was I even trying to for most of the thread. Again, I don't "goad" people into responding to me. I simply make a post, get a response, and respond back. Yet, I got so much shit thrown my way by Touhou supporters that I even made a rant about it in the latest 2hu revisions thread.

 

[Starter_Pack]

If you simply commented towards people, then there would be no issue.

Making comments is not a crime, nor does it deserved to be punished. Being abrasive and passively-aggressive about it, to the point where other people get sick of your tone and practically beg you to shut your mouth, and hence refusing to do so, is.

 

[Malomtek]

If you simply commented towards people, then there would be no issue.

Making comments is not a crime, nor does it deserved to be punished. Being abrasive and passively-aggressive about it, to the point where other people get sick of your tone and practically beg you to shut your mouth, is.

And how are these comments not "abrasive" or "passive-aggressive"?:

You're once again using buzz words to disprove our arguments. Saying that something is a fallacy because you can't debunk it doesn't help your argument.

"Last time I'll respond to you here. Shape the **** up if you want a real argument, otherwise I'm wasting my time." - FujiwaraYesMokou

I could bring up more, but I think you get my point. It takes two to tango, and I don't like how I'm basically the sink for all the blame for Touhou threads "going wrong", when the Touhou supporters get really abrasive as well, often being the ones that really "initiate" things at first. I keep trying to "rise above", but I won't lie; it gets incredibly difficult when I keep seeing comments like these.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't all of the stuff you're trying to get me banned for already brought up last time? Like we've been here, decided a final warning was necessary, and moved on. You can post the same quotes as many times as you like, but I'm not suddenly gonna get punished for them if I didn't before.

 

[Malomtek]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't all of the stuff you're trying to get me banned for already brought up last time? Like we've been here, decided a final warning was necessary, and moved on. You can post the same quotes as many times as you like, but I'm not suddenly gonna get punished for them if I didn't before.

Considering that past history is being brought up again, I think it's relevant now, even if that specific quote was brought up before (and it wasn't).

And "you can post the same quotes as many times as you like, but I'm not suddenly gonna get punished for them if I didn't before" is a pretty great example of passive-aggressiveness and abrasiveness, even haughtiness, to show to the staff.

 

[Starter_Pack]

I could make jokes. I could throw insults or be snarky, but I'll continue to try and respect Ant's wishes. No matter how difficult it may be. So, I'll answer sincerely and respectfully.

You are part of the problem. You cannot picture yourself getting banned, warned, reported, and still somehow deflect and blame others. You're not the only part of the problem, but you play a big role. Whether intentional or not, you automatically grow hostile, automatically gain an attitude, and everything you get upset about. You do in a near instant. Instead of debating by bringing canon material that contradicts said evidence. You instead try devaluing the supporting side by labeling everything as nonsense. (Headcanon, misinterpreting, etc). It's frustrating for people to go scan hunting just for someone to dismiss it with no evidence besides "logic".
Like I said, you're not the only problem. Those you face should also be respectful and what not. But you're not innocent, you make it difficult for us as we do for you. I'm pretty sure every mod who visits Touhou knows you're also the problem, much like a few of the supporting side are as well. We can all try respecting each other. But that is if everyone cooperates and plays on even grounds.

If you're gonna bring up quotes being made in said thread, then it is only fair that I bring this up, all of which I agree with, by the way.

 

[Malomtek]

If you're gonna bring up quotes being made in said thread, then it is only fair that I bring this up, all of which I agree with, by the way.

I know I responded harshly to this quote when it was originally made in response to me, but now that I think about it, the majority of it is right. I even apologized to @Angelzewolf earlier in this thread for popping off on him like that. However, I do want to emphasize that I don't react to things the way I do for no reason. I "get upset about everything" because I keep getting constantly reported here for minor and petty things by FujiwaraYesMokou, so I keep trying to "sharpen" and "stiffen" my behavior so that the rules and guidelines will be strictly followed so that YesMokou has no excuse, only for YesMokou to get super-abrasive with me in a matter of a few posts. You don't get how maddening that is, for someone to "sharpen up" due to the wails of another guy, while the other guy constantly makes snide remarks at his response anyway.

And about that recent quip from FujiwaraYesMokou about me trying to get her banned, it was actually pretty much the exact opposite. So now she's...lying, I guess.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Feels like we're devolving into a back-and-forth yet again. Currently, 3 staff members have supported a permanent ban (KT, Damage, and Ovens) and it seems like Starter is leaning towards a ban as well? Really, unless opinions regarding a ban have changed, it seems like we just need to wait for the go-ahead for ban from Ant (or whoever else is authorized to make decisions like this).

Basically everything that can be said has been said, and we really do need to just wait for more staff input.

 

[thetechmaster36]

You don't get how maddening that is, for someone to "sharpen up" due to the wails of another guy, while the other guy constantly makes snide remarks at his response anyway.

They have good reason to tell you to "sharpen up", is the thing. From what I've seen in the threads you participate in, primarily Touhou ones, you hardly ever back up your claims with evidence, which is actually a requirement according to our discussion rules, often dismiss peoples' arguments as "headcanon" or "nonsense", and generally act as a nuisance in these threads - in many of these cases, you end up instigating conflict and begin bickering with other individuals whilst throwing out insults instead of responding with respect to de-escalate the discussions.

Do most of these cases have the opposite side throwing insults as you as well? Yes, absolutely, and I feel they should be held accountable for that. But that doesn't mean you should continuously throw insults back at them; that's just stirring the pot. It's exactly why most staff don't choose to participate in these threads, because they know that if you and Mokou are there simultaneously, it's just gonna end up being a bunch of insults back and forth.

Last post from me on this subject, have a nice day everyone.

 

[Vietthai96]

There is a rule, but well i will comment on this, permanban seem too harsh, but Malomtek still need to be banned for his behavior, i recommend 6 months ban. Take time to reflect on yourself Malomtek

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

There is a rule, but well i will comment on this, permanban seem too harsh, but Malomtek still need to be banned for his behavior, i recommend 6 months ban. Take time to reflect on yourself Malomtek

This will be my last post on this, but I don't see how a permaban is considered too harsh when he's a repeat offender, and it's been stated above that his presence tends to make threads so hostile that nobody really wants to get involved with them. Every time he's been temp banned or warned he's come back and repeat the same behavior and made things worse yet again, why give him the chance to do it again when he's burned every other chance he's been given? I'd bet a lot that if he got a 6 month ban, in 7-8 months we'd be right back here with another incident on our hands for the same exact causes as before.

 

[Malomtek]

From what I've seen in the threads you participate in, primarily Touhou ones, you hardly ever back up your claims with evidence, which is actually a requirement according to our discussion rules

The perpetual crowing about "evidence" and "scans" basically revolves around me not providing "scans" to "prove" negative/disaffirming statements of my own, even though most of my arguments basically boil down to the "scans" of the other side not even proving their own positive/affirmative statements.

To my knowledge, it has never been necessary in any CRT to provide "scans" for a simple negative statement, especially when the assertions being "negated" are frankly as extreme as the ones made for Touhou.

This will be my last post on this, but I don't see how a permaban is considered too harsh when he's a repeat offender, and it's been stated above that his presence tends to make threads so hostile that nobody really wants to get involved with them. Every time he's been temp banned or warned he's come back and repeat the same behavior and made things worse yet again, why give him the chance to do it again when he's burned every other chance he's been given? I'd bet a lot that if he got a 6 month ban, in 7-8 months we'd be right back here with another incident on our hands for the same exact causes as before.

I repeat again: it takes two to tango. And none of you people have been saints in all of this either. I don't particularly like attempts to run me off a site ("permaban") for behaviors others have been regularly doing as well.

 

[Vietthai96]

This will be my last post on this, but I don't see how a permaban is considered too harsh when he's a repeat offender, and it's been stated above that his presence tends to make threads so hostile that nobody really wants to get involved with them. Every time he's been temp banned or warned he's come back and repeat the same behavior and made things worse yet again, why give him the chance to do it again when he's burned every other chance he's been given? I'd bet a lot that if he got a 6 month ban, in 7-8 months we'd be right back here with another incident on our hands for the same exact causes as before.

He got repeated warning and thread ban yes. However, it is too soon to go for a permanban

 

[Malomtek]

in many of these cases, you end up instigating conflict and begin bickering with other individuals whilst throwing out insults instead of responding with respect to de-escalate the discussions.

What "respect" could I have even "given" to "de-escalate" the situation? Should I have simply told them to stop? Given that they, among other things, constantly accuse me of "misinterpreting" scans or "throwing buzzwords" or any variety of similar assertions and accusations against me wholly unprompted or unsupported by any actual argument as to how, I don't think that would have ever worked.

None of these people "respect" me, so beyond basic decorum rules, I don't "respect" them either. It's a mutual thing, you must understand.

And can anyone point to a specific insult - especially an "instigating" insult - I've thrown in this entire thread (outside of maybe "hypocrite", and I'm pretty sure that's not an insult anyway, given the context in which such comments were made).

 

[Sir_Ovens]

What "respect" could I have even "given" to "de-escalate" the situation? Should I have simply told them to stop? Given that they, among other things, constantly accuse me of "misinterpreting" scans or "throwing buzzwords" or any variety of similar assertions and accusations against me wholly unprompted or unsupported by any actual argument as to how, I don't think that would have ever worked.

None of these people "respect" me, so beyond basic decorum rules, I don't "respect" them either. It's a mutual thing, you must understand.

So in all your infinite wisdom, when confronted by an opinion that you disagree with and an opposition that was downplaying your intelligence, you proceed to do unto them what they were doing onto you?

Both sides might be acting childish, but the fact that neither will bend the knee and "be the bigger person" so to speak, is the real crux of the issue. I think both parties are to blame and should be dealt appropriate punishments depending on the severity of their escalation.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

This user did this

 

[The_Impress]

Yeah, 's a blatant troll.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So in all your infinite wisdom, when confronted by an opinion that you disagree with and an opposition that was downplaying your intelligence, you proceed to do unto them what they were doing onto you?

Both sides might be acting childish, but the fact that neither will bend the knee and "be the bigger person" so to speak, is the real crux of the issue. I think both parties are to blame and should be dealt appropriate punishments depending on the severity of their escalation.

I absolutely agree, having been following the situation on and off for awhile. Malom is absolutely antagonizing... but so is Fujiwara.

****, I'd be down to perma ban both parties. It seems neither can endure the other in a peaceful manner, and both seem content to act out against the other (along with whatever support they can muster) in an attempt to get their opposition perma banned.

I'm sick of the situation, nothing else works. If we're going to hang words like "drastic measures" in the air, may as well use them.

 

[Duedate8898]

While it looks like Malom has an extended history of bans and the such, can the same be said for Fujiwara? If not, dealing out the same punishment doesn't make much sense.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Haven't the both of them been constantly warned and even threadbanned for this exact constant bickering we're talking about now?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Haven't the both of them been constantly warned and even threadbanned for this exact constant bickering we're talking about now?

Aye. They have both been warned and were topic-banned from Touhou for an extended period of time for this exact behavior. It clearly did little to mend them. I hardly think it's fair to ban the one and not the other when they're both pulling the same shit.

I'm hereby advocating for a permanent ban for the both of them. If it is decided Fujiwara should receive lighter punishment, I would at the very least expect some significant level of ban. We should not be in the business of idle threats. We said dire consequences would be had if this continued, and it has done so.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

I'm sorry if I seem bias here or if it isn't exactly my business, but Mokou has been constantly making threads and revisions, as well as being very reasonable and willing to compromise with other members and staff almost constantly.

Like I'm not going to sit here and pretend she doesn't have a quick temper when set off, but the thing is, that very rarely happens unless she's interacting with Mal.. but that's the problem here. If it was just Mokou and just Mal, I'd agree they're just having issues with each other. However...

All of us keep running into unnecessary aggression with Mal. I've tried my best to be patient with him and the worst I've done is said that his arguments hold no ground if he has zero evidence for them (though I'll be the first to admit that months back, I was snarky towards him, but quickly shaped up and stopped being rude).

Just today, he has accused me of following him to a Bleach thread to "harass him," in the past, when anybody who looks into my post history can see that I've been involved with Bleach threads practically since joining the wiki. I probably can't change anyone's mind, but as someone who has been involved in pretty much every touhou thread lately (and even supplied information for some revisions), Mokou isn't the raging ball of anger towards everyone, that her fights with Mal make her out to be.

I have seen a pattern of aggression almost only when Mal continued to repeat his thoughts, again and again, without evidence, until Mokou would go off. With staff that were explaining why evidence is or isn't usuable, she would compromise or accept the rejections, as would the rest of us.

I don't think that the OP of a thread (and many others) should be punished so harshly for getting upset at constant stonewalling and passive aggression from the same person in every thread, who doesn't debate with us in any fair way, and then accuses us of targeting him.

Like the worst punishment I'd say Mokou should get is a strict warning. Like, if she shows similar hyper aggression with other people in the same way, we'd know it isn't only with Mal, and can punish accordingly.

But right now, Mokou is potentially being punished for being the one to speak up about getting targetting and explicitly antagonized by someone trying to spite her, and that's not cool, man. That sounds like the equivalent of suspending a kid for fighting a bully.

I hope it was okay to speak, considering how close I've been to this whole damn situation. I'll be quiet now unless someone in staff addresses me further.

 

[The_Impress]

but the pronnouns stuff shouldnt be taked into, as not everyone is going to follow the pronnouns for different reasons

FYI if you have negative opinions of gender stuff, please find a different site to express them. Fandom takes action against people on transphobia, has explicit rules asking for you to be respectful and in general this isn't your Twitter account, you're discussing character stats here, and if you're physically unable to conform to it off of something as trivial to this site's purpose, like greater gender politics, even to save face, maybe that's an issue of manners at play. You're using a website whose offices are in California, this shit should've been obvious from the get go.

This isn't with respect to the Mokou-Malmotek sitch, where its just accidental imo, but Livinmeme's comments alone, you indeed can't misgender someone on purpose "for different reasons".

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Aye. They have both been warned and were topic-banned from Touhou for an extended period of time for this exact behavior. It clearly did little to mend them. I hardly think it's fair to ban the one and not the other when they're both pulling the same shit.

I'm hereby advocating for a permanent ban for the both of them. If it is decided Fujiwara should receive lighter punishment, I would at the very least expect some significant level of ban. We should not be in the business of idle threats. We said dire consequences would be had if this continued, and it has done so.

With all due respect, I fail to see how Fujiwara is able to be considered as big an issue as Malom in this situation. Malom is seen disrespecting several members throughout an entire thread (and in multiple previous threads), while Fujiwara... simply isn't? She's had a major infraction with one user, and both were topic-banned, but to my knowledge she hasn't had much worse, while Malom... has? He's also been temporarily banned and has been dealt other warnings for issues OUTSIDE of his beefing with Fujiwara.

I guarantee if you pull aside each member who's participated in these Touhou threads, none of them would have had any issues with Fujiwara, but all of them will have had a complaint about Malom. Hell, I bet if you go into other threads outside of Touhou, people would have problems with him as well.

Has there ever been any issues with Fujiwara as a user, outside of her being provoked by Malom?

In every other situation she fosters good debate and will have normal back and forth dialogues with everyone, normal user and mod alike, I've never had a problem with her myself.

It seems really wrong that someone who's otherwise been a very frequent and consistent user who actively works to revise and better verses on this wiki is being punished because they spoke out about a user who has been a consistent nuisance to everyone on the Touhou threads through being incredibly passive aggressive, joining CRTs without providing the one thing that's necessary for CRTs, evidence, to start looped arguments, and stonewall the threads to the point that mods never bother to check them because of long text walls.

Considering that Malom has stated that he "doesn't respect any of us", how are we supposed to have an honest, genuine debate with someone who has no intention of giving us respect at any point, and only intends to debase our statements and call our scans or evidence "headcanon" despite no evidence of their own. This could have been anybody on the Touhou threads at this point.

Apologies for speaking again, I just felt in necessary in this case since I've been tied in this situation for months now.

FYI if you have negative opinions of gender stuff, please find a different site to express them. Fandom takes action against people on transphobia, has explicit rules asking for you to be respectful and in general this isn't your Twitter account, you're discussing character stats here, and if you're physically unable to conform to it off of something as trivial to this site's purpose, like greater gender politics, even for face, maybe that's an issue of manners at play. You're using a website whose offices are in California, this shit should've been obvious from the get go.

This isn't with respect to the Mokou-Malmotek sitch, where its just accidental imo, but Livinmeme's comments alone, you indeed can't misgender someone on purpose "for different reasons".

Also thank you for saying this.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Most importantly, this constant, childish, back and forth between these two needs to stop, and both parties have consistently shown a firm unwillingness to cut it out and, from what I can tell, are constantly trying to aggravate the other and/or get the other banned.

Just about every couple of weeks, at most, we see these two barging in here about yet another disagreement they have, filling up multiple pages in the process.

If they haven't come to a solution by now, they probably never will

 

[The_Impress]

Meh I will say Malmotek's difficult even outside Touhou threads, he had been reported on the Dragon Ball threads and pseudo-reported on Marvel threads.

At this point though I'll deadass say, both should just be topic-banned off Touhou deffo. It's ridiculous now, and I believe that fixes up Fujiwara sitch implied fully, and mostly Malmotek's sitch. I feel Mal's penalty should be slightly higher given history, but meh.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Meh I will say Malmotek's difficult even outside Touhou threads, he had been reported on the Dragon Ball threads and pseudo-reported on Marvel threads.

At this point though I'll deadass say, both should just be topic-banned off Touhou deffo. It's ridiculous now, and I believe that fixes up Fujiwara sitch implied fully, and mostly Malmotek's sitch. I feel Mal's penalty should be slightly higher given history, but meh.

I do wish to ask, what would be the benefit of topic banning Fujiwara from Touhou? It's essentially one of the only verses she interacts with, and she's never been a problem with the verse outside of her difficulties with Malom. Otherwise I'd say she's been a massive benefit to the verse and those who participate in the threads, and has actively been a huge help in improving character profiles and even helping to add ones we've never had otherwise, and opened CRTs that helped spread good debate & discussion on the boards. Removing her from the topic wouldn't really do anything to fix the issue...

I personally think a really strict warning would be the best option. If she gets into any issues with anybody else, then bans are worth discussing, but as is it just seems, overly harsh...

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Kirbonic, with all due respect, you are clearly in favor of Fujiwara. We've given her warnings, these warnings have been ignored. We've doled out punishments, these punishments did little to nothing to enact genuine change. The two explode when interacting with each other and I'm tired of it.

 

[The_Impress]

I do wish to ask, what would be the benefit of topic banning Fujiwara from Touhou? It's essentially one of the only verses she interacts with, and she's never been a problem with the verse outside of her difficulties with Malom. Otherwise I'd say she's been a massive benefit to the verse and those who participate in the threads, and has actively been a huge help in improving character profiles and even helping to add ones we've never had otherwise, and opened CRTs that helped spread good debate & discussion on the boards. Removing her from the topic wouldn't really do anything to fix the issue...

I personally think a really strict warning would be the best option. If she gets into any issues with anybody else, then bans are worth discussing, but as is it just seems, overly harsh...

Strict warnings have been done 900 times for the two of them, and removing her from topics means the issues can literally not be repeated.

She's free to pick up new verses less controversial, where there aren't folks she'll explode onto.

 

[Confluctor]

Just give them indefinite verse ban, and a site ban for Malo for a longer period of time.

Also what about LivinMeme?

 

[The_Impress]

what about him?

 

[The_Impress]

This user did this

Also for record-keeping, @Mr._Bambu banned the user

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

If it wasn't Mokou, it quite literally would have eventually been anyone else trying to revise the verse getting reported by Mal/reporting Mal

After all, Mal called the touhou supporters a hivemind, calls our arguments wank and ridiculous, passive aggressively stated that he couldn't tell who he was responding to because we all argue the same, among other things like accusing me of specifically harassing him on a non-Touhou thread of another favorite verse of mine... and that's only the problems he's shown in Touhou threads.

I just don't understand how one of the biggest contributors to the verse is getting punished for being antagonized when you can find mentions of her wanting to avoid engaging with Mal. But how is she supposed to ignore the one person repeating the same behaviors nonstop in each of her threads?

Besides, even when she ignored him, guess what happened? Mal threw the same passive aggression at the rest of us even when many of us avoided rudeness or direct insults.

I guess that's all I can say on the matter, since staff is making their decisions while I typed this up.

 

[Duedate8898]

So here, I have to ask as well, there is a well-documented history of multiple users having problems with Malom both specifically in Touhou and out of it. Does this same thing ring true for Fuji? If the problem isn't the verse community itself, but just one person you interact with said verse, it doesn't really make sense to ban you from that verse, at least not indefinitely. It seems like if we just remove one of them from this, then the problem disappears.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Here's the issue with this.

Fujiwara was given warnings, warnings which have demonstrably been ignored.

Even though Mal is clearly in the minority, it does not change that Fujiwara ignored said warnings. It doesn't change her little promise from some time ago to simply not engage with him, nada. Nothing.

The fact that Fujiwara shares the popular opinion here means little to nothing to me. Speaking in her defense by condemning Mal also means nothing to me as a defense- I'm fully aware of Malom's part in this and support a ban for him, too.

But Fujiwara still broke the rules.

After a warning. After a topic ban.

Only one way to go, in my eyes. I'd disagree with a permanent topic ban out of principal but if it is the majority vote I will acquiesce.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sorry for commenting but the warnings happened because one person(Malomtek) just completely trashes and congas on her nerves, it feels far better to just remove one from touhou threads instead of both, cause if we're being honest, one of them hasn't really contributed anything but dismissing everything opposing his point a view generally without much evidence of such in a passive-aggressive manner, while the other has been completely open to respectful opposition, willing to accept when they've been debunked, and hell, has worked hard to improve shit where others just don't.

This ain't about just their squabble anymore it's about one being an aggravating stonewall just driving the other side up the wall. That's just the truth of it, and isn't one of our guidelines to try your damndest to debate in a respectful manner? Malomtek has proven through actions that he refuses to debate respectfully in Touhou threads, any opposition he meets? Passive-aggression.

And as for Fuji promising not to do this, kinda damn hard when the same guy arrives to every thread with the exact same attitude. As far as I see it, Fuji isn't the problem. This will be my only post on the matter.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Reaper, I have personally read the threads. I've been called to them before, as have other staff members. When we issued that topic ban to both of them, it wasn't an equal punishment for funsies- it was because we decided both people were at fault. Little has changed. I agree, we have rules regarding respect- however if you intend to cite them, you must first follow them. Both parties provoke each other. Both parties act offended when provoked. It's a hate cycle.