Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Crabwhale]

Discouraging people from talking IS a form of censorship, it doesn't have to be a direct "you can't speak here". I'm just suggesting a change in the OP making it clear that non-staff can participate if they're not disruptive and are contributing to the thread.

I'm not accusing people of censorship, at least not intentionally, as I have no idea if that was done intentionally or not, and I assume that it isn't. It's not clear that non-staff are allowed to comment, quite the opposite, as it's stated twice that it's staff only, once in the title and once, in bold, at the start of the first paragraph, which comes off as an attempt at censorship.

I'm not lashing out at anyone, i'm just trying to make things as clear and honest as possible, as they come off as dishonest. If that wasn't the intention, then there shouldn't be any issue with a simple clarification that makes things look better for staff in general, as there's already active distrust and unrest in the community concerning what staff have power to do and how they use it.

By that definition you may as well call every single staff thread ever made censorship when that is not why they exist, at all. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, you can talk all you want so long as you have the vouching of a staff member. Which if you're relevant and productive to the conversation, you should have no difficulty getting. This is how we do things, this is how we've always done things and it's not new nor obscure information.

And yes, the community has an active distrust of staff. What a surprise. That has literally always been there from day one, and no matter what we do we cannot stave off that sentiment. What we have done however is despite what some people tell you is create a fairly fair environment for debating so long as your polite and stick to the rules, at least in principle if not always in practice.

This wouldn't bother me if it didn't take, what, several clicks and one adequately written message to a staff member to debunk? To have your voice heard? That's not censorship, by any definition.

 

[LordGinSama]

I will apologize and admit that my report was rash and unjustified, I was upset and heated when I posted that and that does not justify doing what I did

For what it's worth, I am sorry LordGinSama

Aye don't sweat it ily homie.

 

[Axxtentacle]

By that definition you may as well call every single staff thread ever made censorship when that is not why they exist, at all. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, you can talk all you want so long as you have the vouching of a staff member. Which if you're relevant and productive to the conversation, you should have no difficulty getting. This is how we do things, this is how we've always done things and it's not new nor obscure information.

No, as by technicality, people are allowed to talk in this specific thread. It's just not obvious, and i'm saying it should be. There's 2 direct statements saying that only staff are allowed, and those are the most obvious parts of the OP.

And yes, the community has an active distrust of staff. What a surprise. That has literally always been there from day one, and no matter what we do we cannot stave off that sentiment. What we have done however is despite what some people tell you is create a fairly fair environment for debating so long as your polite and stick to the rules, at least in principle if not always in practice.

All I was saying is that it comes off as censorship for this thread to defend it by saying by technicality, non-staff can comment. I'm just saying that it should be obvious to people that they can, when it isn't. If anything, it would be a smart move to make it obvious that there isn't any malicious intent here, and no attempt at censorship.

This wouldn't bother me if it didn't take, what, several clicks and one adequately written message to a staff member to debunk? To have your voice heard? That's not censorship, by any definition.

People shouldn't have the confusion there to begin with. It should be obvious to people that they are allowed to speak. Discouraging people from speaking IS a form of censorship. "Censorship is when an authority (such as a government or religion) cuts out or suppresses communication", "suppresses" proves my point here. It doesn't have to be a direct cut-out, but it suppresses the communication nonetheless.

I'm going to stop responding here because this isn't what this thread is for, and i'd rather not break the rules or make any more of a scene than there already is.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Matt, elsewhere.

Everyone else, move on. We have enough of a shit show as is.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Staff members really deleted his nazi comment and my response.

As if it could get any worse.

Apologies if you deem it inappropriate, though seems to me yelling at each other without substance only serves to start shit and clog the RvT. If a real, actual report is being made, make it. Otherwise, adding your commentary to fuel the flames isn't going to help. Again, apologies, but frankly a single garbage fire seems enough for one day.

 

[LordGinSama]

Handle this shit out of the public, seriously you've been a staff member for years. You aren't a ******* savage so stop acting like it.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Not gonna lie, what Matt said was not Ok at all, even if he was heated

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I am not asking or expecting you to give him respect or tolerance. I am asking you not to fuel a fire that doesn't need burning here. You should know we've handled this sort of shit in the past. Not in front of people trying to start a witch hunt. I am in awe of you trying to say the staff refuse to act on these things given the strides we've made in the past. Seriously, this is ******* baffling behavior. You know the appropriate channels, use them or don't.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay we're now getting to very big levels of toxicity that we shouldnt even be on the road to approching here.....

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This is by no means appropriate staff behavior, I mean legitimately what the hell just happened here

 

[CloverDragon03]

All I'm saying is that I don't care what crap happened before, take it somewhere else. Oh my god this is not a good look

 

[CloverDragon03]

You are bringing in outside stuff onto the wiki when it is completely unnecessary. If you want to criticize them, do it somewhere else off the wiki. Calling them a nazi is also a terrible look on you.

Why do I have to be the guy to say this?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, lets not do this in public at all. Please lets drop this.

 

[Purgy]

Anyway, you should probably heed Mr._Bambu's advice and stop posting, you'll just end up making yourself look worse.

 

[LordGinSama]

Is it bad optics, is that it? Criticizing a problematic, previously perma-banned user for their problematic statements and racism is a bad look? I genuinely don't see how this is bad.

No but it sends a very bad precedent especially considering that you were at one point a respectful Admin. You got demoted for a good reason and it was because of your behavior, bringing information like this into the public spotlight is blatantly awful optics and I'm gonna be honest, this is a new low even for you Matt.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I would love to drop this frankly.

 

[LordGinSama]

Anyway here's Wonderwall

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Me to this whole situation right now

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Me right now

 

[Arcker123]

i thought we agreed to drop this

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

:bruhmoment: :WhatAreYouDoingMan:

 

[Shmooply]

Man. This month is treating the site real bad, huh?

Please, just drop this whole petty stuff before it devolves into something absolutely horrendous.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This site is entering a bad place.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

We should clam down

 

[Shmooply]

Yeah this is gonna get heated and watch as wikis and youtubers is gonna use this to shame the website

One more bloodless wound added to the site's already low reputation.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I really wish I didn't have to step in again, it had been cooling off.

All of you, stop spamming the RvT. I understand you think you're trying to help by saying "let's move on"- you are not. It has been said to death now. So practice what you preach. Let this return to the actual intended purpose of rule violation reports. It's getting annoying. Those of you with something to actually contribute to a potential rule violation, given that this seems to be an extraordinarily caustic situation, I'd like to ask you to compile shit and bring it to either myself (given that I'm already involved in this mess, it seems) or Human Resources.

Any more posting about this ***** on here is just going to be deleted. Doesn't matter what the content of said message is. This is in the interest of moving on to productive things, not censorship or whatever people would like to call it. Thank you for participating, kindly move along.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, I'm really burned out as I just got back from work and the very first thing that pops up is storms left and right.

But I do not know full context of the incident, but this is not the place to just blow up. What Matthew Schroeder just did instead of uploading it on Imgur or Gyazo and simply linking the URL like what any level headed person would do knowing Fandom's TOS. That is global ban worthy offence right there.

I also have been missing out on the Bleach thread, but it has been discussed among staff in private. I'm going to look through it all, but the borderline harassment on all sides needs to be dropped. Some of the people in the group discussing it privately are also HR groups and we've even been trying to warn Matt not to do anything. And yes he did cross over the line at this point we agree. But in the end, please stop spamming his thread till the Bureaucrats and HR Group can properly grasp the situation.

Edit: Ninja'd by Mr Bambu.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I more or less agree with the general consensus here, can we please (repeatedly) not turn the RvR (or other threads) into empty arguments riddled with insults, hatred and anger please?

We're supposed to be having fun debating about our favourite fictional verses/characters not stirring up a tidal wave of animosity that'll only lead to more trouble in the future, I understand folks are going through a rough patch right now but its not an excuse to take out on each other.

At this point we shouldn't be fighting like this moreover this kinda behaviour will only fuel the divide in the forum and no good will come from it!

Also I apologize if I contributed to the derail on this thread but I'm just tired of this constant cycle of misery...

 

[AKM sama]

I'll just leave a very polite message here in response to what was brought up previously by Axxtentacle and someone else. People are acting like this is the first ever staff thread made and somehow their right to speech has been taken away and it is "censorship". Anyone who spends a month in this forum knows that there is an unspoken rule about the staff only threads, that if you actually bother to write detailed and constructive arguments on the topic of the thread, your comment IS NOT DELETED. Nobody deletes a comment that has the relevant points related to the OP. But you'd know that if you bothered to make a well-informed argument instead of straight up poisoning the well. Just because some people are given permission to actively argue freely doesn't mean you can't post if you have anything of substance to post. There is a proper channel to do so, just ask any staff to vouch for you. And if you actually bothered to make an effort instead of leaving a comment that had nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread, you'd know.

This isn't something that is happening for the first time and you all know this. But I've noticed that some people ignore that and don't want to address arguments because they just want to cause maximum amount of drama so that things don't progress smoothly, because how dare someone make a thread about downgrading their favorite verse and not let them flood the thread with FRAs, a bunch of irrelevant, inflammable comments, and take away their privilege of stonewalling. If you bothered to take a look at the recent behavior of some people in the Bleach General Discussion Thread, you'd know exactly why it is important to not allow for such behavior in an important thread.

Staff only threads are made so that a proper decision can be reached in peace without the thread getting flooded with thousand comments by people employing every possible tactic to avoid it when things don't go their way, so that everybody involved can actually concentrate on and evaluate the main arguments without having to worry about all that other stuff. If you disagree with the notion of staff only threads as a whole, I am sorry to say but this might not be the best forum for you. Thank you.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

1000% this ^

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thank you for the post, AKM.

 

[Antvasima]

Friendly reminder that Staff are people too and most of us (Crab included, in the above) actively do not care about Bleach as a verse. They are literally just there to help, make it easy for them rather than lashing out.

I strongly agree with the above sentiments, and all of the above posts by Bambu, AKM, Axiom, Crabwhale, Medeus, and all other who are trying to act like adults, and not turn this community into a toxic antagonistic mess.

Matthew, you wrote a public message calling for peace that I highlighted a few days ago. Please practice what you preach. Thank you.

 

[Damage3245]

Reporting @MetalGearRaiden for this comment: https://vsbattles.com/threads/ban-kai-bleach-general-discussion.107575/page-27#post-3526876

Where he calls mods who question Bleach upgrades "biased little *****, who tries to abuse any bit of influence they have in their lives".

He tries to dress it up as not targeting anybody personally, but I don't buy that for a second when his comment is literally targeted towards mods who disagree with Bleach upgrades.

EDIT: He followed it up with another comment saying that he wouldn't lose anything of value from being banned on a "dumb, biased forum".

 

[Antvasima]

That does seem bannable, yes.

Would 2-3 months be enough?

 

[AKM sama]

Honestly, this kind of behavior is exactly why we prefer staff only threads on controversial topics because as soon as you disagree with something in hopes of keeping the profiles accurate, this is how you are treated. And I don't know why, but this sentiment is especially much more prevalent in a single verse. We have downgrades and upgrades and several other kinds of threads for popular franchises like Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece, Marvel, DC, etc but never have I seen these kinds of responses in the general discussion threads of those verses and I think they need more appreciation for it.

Anyway, if the goal of the user in question is to simply start confrontation and when he follows up with that attitude after getting called on that, I don't think he has any intention of being productive and a 6 months ban should be given as a start.

 

[Damage3245]

I concur with AKM sama on that.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Woah, woah, woah, are you serious?

No disrespect to Matthew, but he accused someone for a whole lot of things, so much that someone offsite had to come back, and all he’s given is a slap on the wrist, but that guy says considerably less and he’s getting banned no discussion??

Do any of you see the problem of why the ratio of mod and member distrust is increasingly growing?

 

[Antvasima]

For the record, I am not happy at all with Matthew either (and unless Lina has seriously called for the complete extermination of everybody who disagree with him, which I strongly doubt, it is very uncalled for to call him a Nazi), but it is up to the HR group to decide what we should do with him.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

So, why not leave it up to HR to deal with him too? There wasn’t even a discussion, a “calm down”, no, literally you guys were already deciding his ban time over him saying the wiki is biased, meanwhile there was no single message even alluding to a ban when Matt accused a guy of racism, CP, etc.

 

[KingTempest]

So, why not leave it up to HR to deal with him too? There wasn’t even a discussion, a “calm down”, no, literally you guys were already deciding his ban time over him saying the wiki is biased, meanwhile there was no single message even alluding to a ban when Matt accused a guy of racism, CP, etc.

HR is for staff punishments. That’s why they’re called Human Resources