ruby rose vs overhaul

[Kingofwolves999]

Ignore the long post, the current discussion is better structured and is covering the same ground faster.

Even the game you showed me doesn't display tens of meters of aoe.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Then I will post scans when i get home

 

[DeathNoodles]

Ruby has as much a day of prep time and she knows what his qurik is (she still thinks its a semblance)

If you're giving Ruby this prep time and prior knowledge advantage, then you should do the same for Kai Chisaki (also having a day of prep time and knows what her semblance is, but still thinks it's a quirk), to make the starting conditions more fair for both sides.

 

[Spinoirr]

True

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Prior knowledge and prep time pretty much secures Ruby's win here. From the way King put it Overhaul would be able to analyze everything about Ruby in seconds so giving him prior knowledge wouldnt do much more to help him now, whereas Ruby knows immediately that she has to cut off his hands/arms to beat him and how to do so from the get go

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Overhaul with prep? Lmao. The only advantage Ruby has over Overhaul is now gone as he doesn't need to analyze her semblance to know what it is she's doing. Overhaul now will just insta encase Ruby with the battlefield when the fight starts and make it so she can't get out of range to run away. He can now easily predict what her next move is going to be even if she uses her Semblance because she no longer has any element of surprise left other than her dust rounds. With the knowledge that she has super speed and turns into rose petals as a sign she's using it, Overhaul has a full day of morphing the battlefield to his liking to prevent Ruby from using her Semblance freely, and to prepare himself to react when she uses it.

All of the feats Overhaul has with his skill are against opponents whom he had no knowledge about and was seeing for the first time. He had no knowledge of Mirio's quirk at all but could still react perfectly enough to counter him, and his intangibility and movement is leagues better than Ruby's at blitzing opponents equal to your speed. Having actual knowledge on Ruby's ability, which is far easier to counter than Mirio's, makes this a cake walk for Overhaul.

Also, Ruby is not going to instantly think to cut Overhaul's hands off, she's just going to try to not get touched. If the only info she's getting is that his power deconstructs and reconstructs things he touches, she isn't going to understand the scope of his abilities until she sees them first hand, and even then she isn't going to want to rush in and risk herself or Crescent Rose getting destroyed. If anything, Ruby will rely on her range more than ever knowing Overhaul's ability, and that just leads us back to the range discussion, but with Ruby in a far worse situation because now the entire field belongs to Overhaul, and she can't surprise him with her Semblance.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Trying to insta-encase Ruby leads to her just semblancing her way out. And again, unless the stuff he morphs has durability vastly higher than Ruby's AP there is no reason why she cant just bust her way through it.

And yes, she will instantly think to cut his hands off, prior knowledge means she knows his quirk is done via touching things with his hands and that removing them removes his power. She and Crescent Rose wouldnt be destroyed because her aura will be blocking his quirk.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Then we come back to the current range argument. You had scans for Ruby's lightning dust reaching tens of meters in AoE?

Ruby has never tried to instantly cut off someone's hands just because she knows their power comes from them. I'm not saying she's not intelligent for not thinking that way, but Ruby has literally never attempted to dismember another person just based off their ability, that's out of character for her, especially since she believes everyone is protected by a force field she needs to wear down first.

Ruby doesn't know that Overhaul doesn't have Aura and can't break through it with his quirk, and Overhaul doesn't know she has Aura. OP says they just know each other's abilities in terms of their verse, and Ruby has never fought a human who doesn't have Aura, so she'd fight Overhaul like she would anyone from her verse, and would try to wear down his non existent aura through shots and slashes. She can find out he doesn't have aura if she hits him, but she won't be able to do so without her semblance because Overhaul outskills her, and even if she uses her Semblance, Overhaul knows about it and has dodged similar but better attacks before from more skilled combatants.

 

[MisterKtheKoala]

I'm start thinking this vs is going nowhere

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@King Ruby knows what his quirk is and knows that if he touches her she will be deconstructed instantly, she would have to be the stupidest person in the world to not immediately removing his arms asap. And no, its not in any way out of character for her to remove the limbs of someone who would be able to kill her with it if she didnt.

She fights things that dont have aura all the time. Grimm dont have aura and she dismembers them daily.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

TL;DR Ruby immediately cuts off his arms as its in character for her to do so against someone who is actively trying to kill her

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Ruby doesn't dismember human beings because she believes they have aura, so no, she'll think to exhaust his aura first before cutting his hands off. She can find out he doesn't have aura by hitting him, similar to how he can find out she doesn't insta pop by touching her. They only know of the other's abilities in terms of their own verse. If Overhaul has a Semblance, to Ruby, he would had aura too, so she wouldn't go for hand cutting immediately.

Also, Overhaul reacts to Ruby's Semblance because he knows about it and has reacted and predicted a far better version of it. Mirio's ability is leagues better than Ruby's at blitzing because there is no indication of where he's going to appear when he disappears into the ground, yet Overhaul with no knowledge could dodge him. With knowledge of her semblance, Overhaul predicts Ruby everytime she tries to use it and stabs her for her trouble with spikes.

Also, do you have the tens of meters of AoE scan for Ruby's lightning dust?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Here are some scans of Overhaul reacting to a character who practically teleports right next to himself and his henchmen, by pure skill and prediction. Mirio even comments that the way Overhaul moves and predicts is impressive, and is only alive due to his quirk countering Overhaul directly.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Don't forget this

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not knowing he doesn't have aura =/= she will purposely avoid attacking the one thing that can kill her instantly. You're legitimately painting ruby to be a massive moron here. Aura or not she would still try to cut him with her scythe, which would still hurt him the second she does so shed immediately know that he has no aura and that she can remove his arms

And with k owledge of overhaul's quirk why would ruby let herself be caught by spikes?

 

[Spinoirr]

Removing overhauls prep as ruby would be more producible

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

So Ruby gets prep but he doesn't?

 

[Spinoirr]

Yeah, but I could make it he knows aura is a forcefield but think that's her qurik

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Ruby knows he can deconstruct and reconstruct things he touches. She does not know how he uses this ability or how skilled he is in combat with and without it. I'm not painting Ruby as an idiot, I'm telling you what she would do in character. You're assuming Ruby is some bloodlusted mutilator who instantly destroys body parts as a response to a person's abilities, which she never does outside of a single example with different circumstances than a normal fight, and against an opponent who had a clear extremity from a normal person. Cutting off an extended, vulnerable scorpion tail from someone who just beat her, her team, and slashed her uncle, is not the same as cutting the hands off of someone whose ability revolves around their hands.

You're framing Ruby as bloodlusted, when she isn't. There is no scenario where Ruby blitzed and instantly tries to incapacitate a human foe just because she knows what their semblance does. That's not me calling her stupid, it's her character.

And Overhaul without prep can still react to Ruby anyway, honestly the prep was just for fairness. Mirio knew Overhaul's quirk as well and still got predicted, and likely would have died if he didn't counter him directly. Sir Nighteye knew his quirk, and was equally if not more so skilled than Mirio, and got stomped by Overhaul. Overhaul has reacted to faster blitzes than Ruby's with no knowledge, and against opponents that know his own powers, before. I don't see why you think he can't do the same here.

Prep in general seems weird to have in this fight for either side, but whatever makes it fair is fine.

Do you have the tens of meters of AoE with lightning dust scans?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

The OP should likely stop changing the prep time for the combatants. Giving Ruby prep time and Kai no knowledge is a bit unfair and bias to an extent.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ruby was winning even before those changes so i dont see why any changes were made in the first place

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Gotta agree ruby already had some strong advantages adding on all these other benefits doesn't seem to be necessary...

 

[Spinoirr]

True but king still thinks overhaul takes this

Mirio and sir knew what his qirk was and they still got beat

 

[Cropfist]

Chisaki for reasons above

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Crop May not be the best idea to FRa anything at the moment

 

[WeeklyBattles]

True but king still thinks overhaul takes this

Mirio and sir knew what his qirk was and they still got beat

Neither of them have the speed, versatility, mobility, range, or weaponry to be able to beat him nor do they have elemental attacks capable of restricting him or a forcefield that nopes his hax

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Mirio teleports behind people to blitz them without any trail or trace whatsoever, what are you talking about speed and mobility? Mirio has more precise and actually instant movement, with far better fighting skills at the same time, and Chisaki could still predict and react to him. Ruby's speed amp is not enough to blitz Chisaki.

Mirio's quirk directly countered Chisaki and he beat him badly because of that fact. All of the things you listed for them not beating him are false, as Mirio was decimating Overhaul in combat before he took a quirk erasing bullet to save Eri, and even then he could fight him for 5 minutes after breaking Overhaul's arm and getting hopped up on Plus Ultra juice. idk what you're on about those things being reasons they weren't able to beat him.

Range and elemental attacks are irrelevant until you back up your claim that Ruby has tens of meters of AoE for her lightning dust, which you've been avoiding for quite some time now. Her resisting his hax is an irrelevant feature as he didn't need his hax to beat Sir, he killed him by simply being more skilled at cqc than him, and stabbing him with spikes. I feel like you're ignoring the reasons I'm putting forth as to why and how Overhaul wins.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Teleportation and speed are not the same thing and mirio cannot split into multiple hims with his quirk nor does he have a means of cutting off an opponent's limbs. He doesnt have an attack that physically paralyzes the opponent. He doesnt have a range 10x higher than Kai's.


>he killed him by simply being more skilled at cqc than him, and stabbing him with spikes. I feel like you're ignoring the reasons I'm putting forth as to why and how Overhaul wins.

Its already been explained so many times why cqc is not going to happen in this match that im amazed youre still trying to use it as an argument.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

What? Cqc not happening in this match has never been stated to not happen, it's the only win condition Ruby has. She needs to get in close and one shot kill Chisaki with Crescent Rose, cqc is required to do that.

You're right, teleportation is better than speed, and Overhaul could react to Mirio despite it. Ruby splitting into multiple versions of herself is irrelevant as she has to reform before she can attack, and Chisaki can react to her when she does so. Everytime she uses her Semblance, she gets reacted to and dodged before she can hit Overhaul.

Chisaki dodges every bullet and dust round Ruby has until she's forced into cqc, where he will stomp. If you want to argue that Ruby has lightning dust aoe capable of hitting Chisaki due to being tens of meters in size, post the scan of said attack please. The range argument doesn't work if Ruby can't hit Overhaul at all.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

This is almost a tie for me, but gonna have to hand it to Chisaki FRA.

Chisaki's just too experienced and too good. Not to mention he can intercept the attacks with distant attacks too or propel himself away with other means. And technical regen helps

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ciruno intercepting any of Ruby's ranged attacks gets him blown up or paralyzed, and he cant regen if he's paralyzed

Also Ruby at this point is more experienced than he is

 

[WeeklyBattles]

snip

Would you like me to quote every time that it was stated that Ruby would not allow herself to be dominated by spikes in cqc? Because at this point its been said and agreed on over a dozen times.

Teleportation isnt speed actually. You cant blitz someone using teleportation because blitzing implies speed. Do you have scans of him reacting to something that can speedblitz people faster than himself? Because nothing on his profile implies this.

Here. Her bullets all have an aoe of several meters radius with lightning dust's electricity having a range farther than that due to its chain lightning and theyre semi-auto and equal to him in speed.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Ruby needs to get into cqc range to cut off overhauls arms and kill him. That point has been decided in this thread, and is her win condition.

I never said teleportation is speed, I said it's better, at least in this case. Overhaul can react to someone practically teleporting right behind him with absolutely no tell whatsoever, and react enough to dodge them, despite them already being mid attack. He can then predict this person's teleportation good enough to move his own henchmen out of the way when Mirio's fist was literally inches from his face. Reacting to Ruby, who leaves a trail of rose petals, isn't actually teleporting, and is no where near as skilled as Mirio, is child's play for Overhaul.

That is at best 3-4 meters of aoe, not the tens of meters you were speaking of earlier. Overhaul dodges and avoids the AoE of that easily. Also ruby's lightning dust doesn't operate like that anymore, in v4 they're just normal bullet shots that need to actually hit the target in order to electrocute them. The chain lightning and AoE attacks are either not canon due to game mechanics or were retconned.

Case in point:

 

[Kingofwolves999]

If she still had chain lightning she would have hit Tyrian, and there is no AoE explosion from hitting Nora. Lightning dust for Ruby was changed in v4, along with many other things in the show. RWBY is known for constantly changing how certain things operate, so unless you can prove not only that the game mechanics are canon, but that Ruby still has access to those specific abilities, her current lightning dust shots are what she has.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Chisaki fra

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Overhaul fra Overhaul: 6 (King, Cropfist, Ciruno, Dragon, me, MrDr)

Ruby: 3-4 I think

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Whew after reading the whole thread, Kingofwolves' explanation makes sense to me so voting Chisaki

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I will debunk the reasoning for kai when I get home

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ruby needs to get into cqc range to cut off overhauls arms and kill him. That point has been decided in this thread, and is her win condition

No. She doesnt. Her bullets are capable of tearing people and grimm in half, she doesnt need to be in cqc to take his hands off

 

[Kingofwolves999]

She needs to be able to hit him from range in order to hurt him. She's hundreds of meters away, shooting projectiles Chisaki can already react to due to speed equalization. She never lands a single hit from range, hence why you brought up the AoE argument.