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Riordanverse Tier 6 Revisions: Part 2

RegisNex1232

RegisNex1232

2,485
309
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2544242 - Part 1

In the above thread, most people agreed to the Tier 6 feat being an outlier and are fine with carrying out any necessary revisions for the profiles.

As a continuation to the above thread, this thread will determine the new ratings of the Greek and Roman demigods in the PJO verse. Monsters and other characters will be left to another date.

The Greek demigods:


The Roman demigods

 
Imma help you, but there are a few minor gods that lose 6-C cuz percy had it Herecules comes to mind. And Percys Hubbard feat is highest one we have calced. While Hazel's fear could be the highest we dont have calced. I doubt it will reach 7-A or higher though.
 
 
SinsofMan said:
Imma help you, but there are a few minor gods that lose 6-C cuz percy had it Herecules comes to mind. And Percys Hubbard feat is highest one we have calced. While Hazel's fear could be the highest we dont have calced. I doubt it will reach 7-A or higher though.
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We can deal with that after this thread.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I disagree with the downgrades. Popularity is not a reasoning.
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But all the points and arguments Regis and company made against yours are reasoning the majority happens to agree with.
 
The Hazel feat is 7C btw IIRC.

I am pretty sure only unanimous or nearly unanimous revisions are applied. I am also sure that our outlier page literally states that only the most extreme feats are unusable.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
The Hazel feat is 7C btw IIRC.

I am pretty sure only unanimous or nearly unanimous revisions are applied. I am also sure that our outlier page literally states that only the most extreme feats are unusable.
Click to expand...
Regarding that, I am currently prepping a crt as a humble, blue colored user that will modify the outlier page to sort of clear up consistency. Tbh, 'extreme' is subjective.

I know you calced it, didnt you? Wanna pull it up?
 
Kep calculated it, I will try to find it when I get back on laptop.

If the definition on our outlier page is wrong, it should be modified before we downgrade half the wiki.

Also this thread is far from unanimous or nearly unanimous.
 
And btw, the volcano eruption is unquantifiable or not yet quantified. I don't think it can be calculated accurately as we are not showed the volcano erupting, unlike in a movie or a game.

And it's not like volcano eruptions are limited to 7-B. This eruptio in another verse, for example, is 6-C.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Well go change the definition on the outlier page before applying any changes.
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You're honestly blowing this out of proportion.

A feat doesn't have to be the difference between 8-A and 4-A to be an outlier. It just doesn't have to make sense in the context to the character's existing feats or what they normally scale to.

There is solid reasoning for people thinking 6-C doesn't make sense for the Big Three Demigods, which Regis and Kep have laid out over and over again in the previous thread. If you're willingly ignoring their arguments and claiming that we're just bandwagoning the revisions, I don't see the use in anyone discussing this with you proper.
 
People say it is an outlier merely because they do not show 6-C feats later in the book. We do not expect demigods to completely destroy an island or mountain when fighting. The outlier page quite literally says only the most extreme cases are unusable.

The 7-B volcano feat is not yet calculated, and probably cannot be.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
People say it is an outlier merely because they do not show 6-C feats later in the book.
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If it's the only 6-C feat in the books, and that's the case, I'm pretty sure that's an outlier.

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
The outlier page quite literally says only the most extreme cases are unusable.
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You forget the quote on the page directly after that:

"Often there is disagreement on exactly what constitutes an outlier, and things that are considered an outlier by some might not be considered to be one by everyone. Careful judgement should be used in all cases."

And if the Volcano feat is unsuable that would place the lower end even furthur behind the 6-C feat, making it even more of an outlier.
 
GilgaArcuied said:
it's a outlier we are past that discussion.

@regis what do you suggest for the tiering?
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Well, we'd have to recheck first on what the stance is on whether demigod powers scale to physical stats. Because that was glossed over during the last thread.
 
If it's the only 6-C feat in the books, and that's the case, I'm pretty sure that's an outlier.

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
The outlier page quite literally says only the most extreme cases are unusable.
Click to expand...
You forget the quote on the page directly after that:

"Often there is disagreement on exactly what constitutes an outlier, and things that are considered an outlier by some might not be considered to be one by everyone. Careful judgement should be used in all cases."

And if the Volcano feat is unsuable that would place the lower end even furthur behind the 6-C feat, making it even more of an outlier.

Hades's earthquake in the first book is 6-C, and Ares was said to make it look like a minor event when fighting gPercy.
 
2 feats done by gods and not tanked fully by Percy. There's stretching, and then there's stretching. So way to go, bringing up pointless feats that don't scale.
 
"Often there is disagreement on exactly what constitutes an outlier, and things that are considered an outlier by some might not be considered to be one by everyone. Careful judgement should be used in all cases."

Exactly. So?

Problem is that the volcano feat is unquantifiable, while the other Tier 7 feats were normal to casual.

@Regis A kick by Ares in the chest is obviously >>>>> a mere shout. And that was nerfed Ares.
 
Percy scaling to Ares is a silly concept, considering we rate him at Tier 4.

If we assume Ares was restricted/nerfed in some way then we can't assume that Percy magically scales to the Tier 6 God feats, which were done while unrestricted.
 
A normal kick is somehow equal to a magical shout? Good to know that logic is not being used here as well.
 
Firstly, pretty sure it was decided in that huge Scaling AP to physical strength thread that the gods' AP scales to physical strength as they use physical and magical attacks alternatively.

Secondly, it was nerfed Ares that made Hades's earthquake look like a minor event. Not full-power Ares.

The Hubbard glacier feat was a casual smack. Nico splitting the ground was when he was young and inexperienced, without showing any sign of struggle. Hazel was also young and untrained when she busted that island, and the narrative implies she died due to oil inhalation. The volcano eruption is unquantified, but is likely more powerful than the 1980 eruptions. I have seen calculations of volcanoes range from as low as 7 megatons up to 42 gigatons.
 
Well, we'd have to recheck first on what the stance is on whether demigod powers scale to physical stats. Because that was glossed over during the last thread.

Well it depends. I assume you mean mostly the big three children? The only ones with magical demigod powers for the most part? The Seven fall under two categories 1. Their talents are inherited from the gods, but are practically not much stronger then other demigod children. IE: Annabeth likely wont beat Clarisse in a fight. 2. Their magical talents is their strength. Percy, Jason and I guess Leo are the ones that come to mind. At least, that is my general take on it.

Usually, I think it is fine to scale abilities to AP, but not to strength. Unless there is reason to suspect you could.
 
Ares playing around with Percy somehow means that Percy should scale to his yell of pain? Really? And I thought that the reasoning behind Annabeth being 6-C was bad.

Ares holding back intentionally =/= Nerfed Ares.

A last ditch attempt after exhausting himself on a personal hurricane, and he is later rejuvenated after a nice dunk in the water. Still failing to see how this actually have scales to his physical stats. Narrative implied that it was her ultimate effort, which ended up killing her due to the collapse of the island, and there is zero proof that if repeated, she would easily survive it. Likely =/= is. When a calc is made and evaluated, then we can talk. This, of course, applies to all the feats brought up here.


@Sins, that is pretty much my take as well. The powers should generally have a separate rating from their physical capabilities.
 
Whether Ares was holding back or nerfed, he displayed that power when fighting gPercy.

Percy was exhausted sustaining the hurricane, but the glacier smack was casual and didn't show any signs of struggle/pain. Ultimate effort =/= extremely powerful effort. Hazel's feat, we do not know if she would have survived it or not, so it cannot be used as an anti-feat.

A calculation is not yet made for the volcano eruption, thus it cannot be used as an anti-feat for 6-C. The whole basis for the downgrades seem to revolve around a feat that is supposedly 7-B.
 
Display of power =/= scaling. Skipping basic steps in establishing a logical scaling chain is a big mistake.

Frank's POV does not say if Percy struggled or not, but it's clear that this isn't something he does often as a casual thing. Even in earlier books he needs focus and strength to lift large bodies of water. Hazel practically said that she would die due to it, as did Gaia. You're now ignoring the narrative for fanfiction here.

An estimate is definitely possible and going by the definite lack of demigod 6-C feats, 6-C is an outlier. Deal with it and stop trying to derail a thread.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
A calculation is not yet made for the volcano eruption, thus it cannot be used as an anti-feat for 6-C. The whole basis for the downgrades seem to revolve around a feat that is supposedly 7-B.
Click to expand...
Except the fact that said feat is obviously not 6-C?

The last eruption of Mount St.Helen was 24 megatons, so it's reasonable to assume that the one caused by Percy would be in the same ballpark.

You are the one who has to prove that it's several hundreds of times stronger if you want to use it as a supporting feat, not the other way around.

Same goes for Hazel's feat. We don't have to prove that she doesn't scale, you have to prove that she does
 
Pretty sure AP scales to striking strength unless it is an extremely powerful attack (as decided in a huge thread before).

Percy simply summoned a wave and the glacier collapsed, without any sign of struggle. He is new to his powers in earlier books. Hazel didn't specify how she would die at all, and the narrative seems to imply that she died as oil filled her lungs.

Calculate/estimate it then. I don't see how to do so as we don't have a video of the eruption, since it is a book. And only the most extreme cases can be called an outlier, while 6-C isn't even the highest feat in the verse. There are also Ares's attack during his fight against Percy, storm by Jason and minor gods having True Forms (demigods dying when looking is obviously Durability Negation). And how am I derailing when you are handwaving all of mine and Archdemon's arguments and acting like your points are agreed on by everyone.
 
Except the fact that said feat is obviously not 6-C?

The last eruption of Mount St.Helen was 24 megatons, so it's reasonable to assume that the one caused by Percy would be in the same ballpark.

You are the one who has to prove that it's several hundreds of times stronger if you want to use it as a supporting feat, not the other way around.

Same goes for Hazel's feat. We don't have to prove that she doesn't scale, you have to prove that she does

I am pretty sure the burden of proof is for people to prove a feat is an outlier, not the other way round.

We do not know about the volcano feat. Some volcano calcs have been up to 6-C, so it is possible indeed that the feat is 6-C. Assuming that the eruption is comparable to the 1980 one is completely random and without evidence.
 
I am quite certain burden of proof is on people saying the feat is unusable, as we assume the feat can be used unless characters are consistently far lower.

Not sure what do you mean about Newton's Third Law.
 
AP scales to Dura and Striking Strenght because of Newton's Third Law.

And no, we went over already with how there are feats lower that do hurt them, you need to prove why we should take 6-C above those.
 
And according to this logic Tier 7 is invalid for demigods as well, as you cannot prove why we should take 7-C above 9-B feats.

Anyway I'm going to sleep now, sick af.
 
No? I don't have to prove "there aren't enough consistent 6-C feats", because that's asking me to prove a negative, while the claim that needs evidence is "6-C is consistent"

Name a 6-C volcano feat in recent history, because I definitely can't do that.

Yeah, you can calc them that high, but that doesn't prove anything. Majin Buu has a Low 4-C Earth busting feat, doesn't mean that under normal circumstances "can destroy Earth" supports tier 4 stats
 
Pretty sure only Vulcano's of VEI of 7 and above qualify for that, and those haven't happened in a looooong time.
 
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