• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Riordanverse downgrade

Mephistofelicia

Mephistofelicia

12
2
Ain't none of the demigods 6C. Those feats are outliers, and they never reproduce them. Hazel sinks an island, and yet barely makes a wall fall later on, in The Tyrant's Tomb. Sky-holding should be scrapped altogether. 0 info about what this sky is. Could be 200 kilos, could be 2000, could be a billion tons. Absolutely 0 info was given to us via that. Also, the characters aren't fast enough to dodge bullets (The House of Hades, even Jason, one of the strongest demigods, couldn't react to an arm being moved to direct the pistol toward him, then the bullet being fired. The bullet was between his feet before he knew what happened, so they aren't all that fast, either.) Lots of inconsistent feats of above-normal power, but on average, they're nowhere near that tough. Hell, Percy and Annabeth were barely a direct match for Kelli, an empousa who herself is highly unremarkable, if even being building level. The whole verse needs some massive revision, with feats that can be calculated and accepted as something they can regularly reproduce. Putting Piper - Piper, who is basically a regular human with a super voice - at 6c, above some characters from other verses who could quite clearly one-shot her (FT has a fuckton of 7Bs that are more impressive than any demigod, save maybe Nico DiAngelo, since his strength remains loosely defined.)

The demigods would probably go as far as low-7B, but not higher. This isn't a calc, just an estimation, given how easily some shit knocks them out. (A falling brick knocked Jason out. That ain't island level durability. They're just slightly above normal people when it comes to that. Everything else is usually gods messing with them (Hera guiding Percy's arrow into Geryon's hearts in TBOTL is proof that they regularly mess with them. Even Aphrodite admits to tampering.) The outliers can be described as unconfirmed divine interference at best, but they aren't things the demigods themselves can actually do. (Percy's water usage didn't even sink a fort in The Son of Neptune. It simply did some damage to it, and that was WITH the curse of Achilles, which is stated to be above his 6C self here. Definitely not.)

I saw someone say to make a revision request in the discussion of Annabeth's sky-lifting feat, so here ya go. Series is still alive, and might be subject to future change, but that just doesn't seem all that likely. They've been solidly consistent for over 5 books, with very few power-ups, and their best feats as outliers.
 
The 6-C was accepted as an outlier, but no one really got around to making the thread for the actual downgrade. We'd need a new tier for them.
 
Percy and Jason created one together. There are some other tier 7ish feats with Percy causing a volcanic eruption, his giant tsunami, demigods creating earthquakes, Hazel sinking a small island, etc.

The main issue would be the rating for their physicals, and most of that stuff being Enviromental Destruction.
 
The gods should be able to make storms, but not demigods,. It took two physically strongest ones (Nico and Hazel are the strongest, but that's through hax) to create a single storm. Percy and Jackson had to work together, and are pretty clearly a cut above the rest. So no, the standard characters can't actually create storms by themselves. (If you mean everything a storm encompasses, since Jason CAN make strong wings last for a decent period of time)
 
In both series we do get a few good feats for the Demigods and their physicals.

In terms of lifting strength we don't get a whole lot of good lifting feats, but we do get a lot of good anti-feats. In the SoM 13 year old Percy and Annabeth were unable to move a 6 ton boulder that was wedged in front of a cave and in TLO 16 year old Percy and Annabeth were unable to lift a 20 ton statue off Thalia. This can give us an good idea of what these Demigods are capable of.

One of the few good feats of lifting strength we get for any Demigods in the series is when, in TLO, Percy was able to throw a 9ft Minotaur in full armor off the Williamsburg Bridge. Now assuming that the Minotaur weighs the same as a full grown bull Percy was able to throw around 1.1 tons of Monster with relative ease (since he only used one arm). The Minotaur's weight could be even greater considering he was wearing plate armor.

Additionally, In MoA Percy was able to support the weight of himself (the avg. weight of a 17 year old boy is 64.4Kg), Annabeth (the avg. weight of a 17 year old girl is 54.4Kg), Arachne (who was stated to weigh "several hundred pounds", putting her anywhere between 200 pounds (90Kg) to 900 pounds (408Kg)) and a Fiat 500 (which have a curb weight of 490Kg). That's a total weight of 1016Kg or approximatley 1 Ton. Now this my seem like an anti-feat for Percy being above 1 Ton in terms of lifting strength at first as Percy was unable to lift himself back up. However, when you consider that fact that Percy was dangling over a pit which created a vortex so powerful that Jason and Frank were unable to fly due to the risk of getting sucked in. That means that the objects Percy was lifitng which were being affected by this vortex actually weighed more.

So we have two feats putting Percy at roughly 1 ton per arm so his lifting strength would be considered Class 5.

We can scale Jason to Percy since they were evenly matched in CQC, however we don't have any 'good' feats to support all Demigods being Class 5, so Superhuman Lifting Strength will have to do.

For striking strength we've seen Percy cut throughs solid metal, stone and wood, Percy, Hazel and Jason cut through chains with single strikes, Annabeth shattering brick with hits and Percy creating shockwaves while clashing with other super-strong beings. I don't know exactly what tier/level these feats would amount to.

For Travel Speed we don't get a whole lot of good feats for any of the Demigods that I can recall, there's a couple iffy feat that aren't exactly quantifiable and one of Percy running anywhere between 10-20 meters in a very short amount of time which would put him anywhere between Athletic Human and Superhuman. It should also be noted that in canon it has been stated multiple times that Percy is slow for a Demigod (in terms of travel speed).

For Durability (specifically blunt force) Percy has tanked hit from people who crack concrete with their strikes, he was able to survive getting pucnhed backward over the horizon by the Fist of Horus (which can crack boulders and pulverise doors and walls) and thrown around by beings over various degrees of super-strength. In regards to other Demigods Thalia was able to jump off the Second story of the Smithonian National Air and Space Meusuem with no ill-effects, which is 9 meters off the ground and Piper was able to fall 30-feet and land on her feet without injuring herself. These are just some of the feats I could think of.
 
Okay. You can ask the following members to comment here if you wish:

Reppuzan

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Liger686

Kepekley23

RegisNex1232

InfiniteSped

Jvando

Zaratthustra

AnonymousBlank
 
I think regular demigods should remain where they are. The children of the Big 3 should clock in at Low 7-C. No character has actually proven capable of destroying a Small Town, but they do have several inconsistent feats. The verse is so inconsistent, actually, that there's no way to accurately rank them there. From surviving that massive send-off from a volcano, to being knocked out by a horse's hoof. The latter of the two is when Percy was stronger :/ It's a kids' book, so not a whole lot of logic and sense was put into it. Low-7C should be at least what the giants are capable of, given their size. Polybotes was, in time, going to destroy New Rome, which is most likely a small, albeit well-built, city. The other superhuman or ridiculous feats could be described as divine internetion. The gods interfere in mortal affairs all the time, such as cursing them or giving them aid off-screen. Hera was helping Percy throughout his journey with her power DIRECTLY, which she confessed in The Battle of the Labyrinth.

Put the giants at Low-7C, and the demigods who can directly oppose them 1v1 at the same tier. Nico should get an added "-this-and-this tier with hax" since he has an insta-kill ability that should ignore durability (only used once on an unimpressive guy, but since it completely ignored armor (didn't damage it, it just ignored it) it seems like it ignores durability. Hazel might also be higher with the verse's version of magic (illusions that can be turned to reality with skill).

Som Low-7C: Percy Jackson, Jason Grace, Thalia Grace, Hazel Levesque, Nico di Angelo, Reyna Avila Ramírez-Arellano (while blessed by two goddesses) and Luke Castellan (while possessed by Kronos). Percy with the Curse of Achilles, and Luke by scaling, might be Town Level (Percy didn't have particular difficulty battling Hyperion, who should be comparable to the strongest giants, being the third strongest Titan).

Everyone else gets pushed into Tier-8, and their speeds is superhuman at best. The verse is very slow, regularly being troubled by regular arrows. Dodging bullets was out of the question when they fought that one messy son of Poseidon.
 
Has anybody asked the members that I mentioned earlier to help out here?
 
MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer said:
Probably necro, but is the downgrade still happening?
Click to expand...
Yes, I've been working on the revisions solo for the past year now (because apparently no one else wants to do it) and I have only recently finished taking notes for ToA, after going through the rest of the main-line novels and all short-stories and other supplementary materials for the main Riordanverse. The Revision Thread will probably be done by mid July sometime next year, or sooner if people pitch in to help.

So far the average Demigod is getting down-graded to 8-B (and that's solely because of durability, not because of AP) and the more powerful ones are getting down-graded to Low 7-C to High 7-C.

However, there are a lot of calculations that need to be done for new feats which could either bump them up or down a level depended on the numbers.

As of right now I haven't finished taking notes for MC and KC, and the scaling there could be crucial but we won't know until the feats are calculated.
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Crying cause PJO is my favorite verse lol

Why is the 6-C feat an outlier again?
Click to expand...
Because A. such a feat never existed and B. even if it did the next best feat for Demigods in the verse is around the Low 7-C range, which I would argue is enough of a gap for anything around 6-C to be considered an outlier.

Jason's storm feat was never 6-C because every time it was corroborated by different people (Nico, Will, Piper, Leo and Jason) from different perspectives that it did not span to the horizon (like the calc assumes) and never mentioned how big it was.

Leo's supernova with a quarter-mile kill-zone is arguably not even Low 7-B due to the weirdness of Divine avatars.

Both Percy's Hubbard glacier destruction feat is around 7-C, and due to the inherent instability of glaciers and the vagueness of the shape of the destroyed region it could be much weaker or much stronger than the calculation suggests.

The sky lifting feat is not even a strength feat to the weirdness of the magic involved and how the gods directly state that it requires strength of will, not physical strength and again, since 2 Demigods together were unable to lift a 20 ton statue and are consistently shown to have around Class 5 strength this would be an outlier even if it was a strength feat.

I could go on, but again there are still a lot of feats to calculate and a lot more scaling to be done, so 6-C being an outlier might change, but I doubt it.

If you'd like a direct say in the creation of the Revision Thread I can send you a link to a Discord group chat for the people working on it. Sure you'll be able to comment on it later, but if you want to able to directly write the RT then the option is available.
 
Last edited:
Just wanted to point out some things.

It's worth noting Hazel not being able to bring the wall down isn't an anti feat. Tarquin outright says that his seat of power dampens her powers.
“Everyone,” Hazel said, “back up.” It was the same thing she’d told us in the tunnel to camp, right before turning the eurynomos into ceiling art. Tarquin just laughed. “Ah, Hazel Levesque, your clever tricks with rocks won’t work here. This is my seat of power! My reinforcements will arrive any moment. It will be easier if you don’t resist your deaths. I’m told it’s less painful that way.
Click to expand...
About Kelli, afaik she was a problem largely because of her charmspeak and speed.

As for Percy in SoN, he didn't have the curse then. He got rid of the curse while entering the camp. And why would he collapse a whole fort for a war game, potentially crushing the people inside? The goal was just for the rest of the cohorts to be able to enter without being under fire.

Usually we don’t even get into the fort because we’re burning or drowning or...”
He faltered, and looked at Percy. “Water cannons.”
“What?” Percy asked.
“The cannons on the walls,” Frank said, “they draw water from the
aqueduct. There’s a pump system—heck, I don’t know how they work, but
they’re under a lot of pressure. If you could control them, like you controlled
the river—”
Click to expand...
I do agree that 6-C isn't accurate for them, though.
 
Hellbeast said:
So how would we do this
I know there are Tier 7 feats but I kinda have to question if that would scale to their physicals in a meaningful manner
Click to expand...
It probably should for the most part since one of Percy’s tier 7 feats is him tanking it point blank, Jason and Percy are constantly shown or stated to be equal/relative and the two physically clash, both against each other and the twin giants who land direct blows on them. Don’t recall what IVLIVS breaking on Mt. Tam was calced at but Jason just got back up from it low diff even though it staggered (possibly damaged?) Enceladus who could take Jason’s lightning which would scale to Percy’s tier 7.

Hazel is a bit more iffy since I don’t recall her actually getting hit by anyone who scales to tier 7 physically. Frank is just the strongest physically so he would scale. Leo’s fire was more potent than Jason or Percy’s powers. The last two …… no clue tbh.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
It probably should for the most part since one of Percy’s tier 7 feats is him tanking it point blank, Jason and Percy are constantly shown or stated to be equal/relative and the two physically clash, both against each other and the twin giants who land direct blows on them. Don’t recall what IVLIVS breaking on Mt. Tam was calced at but Jason just got back up from it low diff even though it staggered (possibly damaged?) Enceladus who could take Jason’s lightning which would scale to Percy’s tier 7.

Hazel is a bit more iffy since I don’t recall her actually getting hit by anyone who scales to tier 7 physically. Frank is just the strongest physically so he would scale. Leo’s fire was more potent than Jason or Percy’s powers. The last two …… no clue tbh.
Click to expand...
I recall seeing a town level calc for Ivlivs but I can't find it
 
AnonymousBlank said:
It probably should for the most part since one of Percy’s tier 7 feats is him tanking it point blank, Jason and Percy are constantly shown or stated to be equal/relative and the two physically clash, both against each other and the twin giants who land direct blows on them. Don’t recall what IVLIVS breaking on Mt. Tam was calced at but Jason just got back up from it low diff even though it staggered (possibly damaged?) Enceladus who could take Jason’s lightning which would scale to Percy’s tier 7.

Hazel is a bit more iffy since I don’t recall her actually getting hit by anyone who scales to tier 7 physically. Frank is just the strongest physically so he would scale. Leo’s fire was more potent than Jason or Percy’s powers. The last two …… no clue tbh.
Click to expand...
Here's the calc

Jason vs Enceladus (PJO)

[Enceladus] swept his spear sideways, met Jason's javelin--and with a snap like a shotgun blast, the golden weapon shattered. The explosion was hotter than the giant's breath, blinding Jason with golden light. The force knocked him off his...
www.fanverse.org www.fanverse.org
 
Can somebody explain what we currently need to do here in an easy to understand manner please? I do not remember anymore.
 
Well, @False Trajectory said this.

So far the average Demigod is getting down-graded to 8-B (and that's solely because of durability, not because of AP) and the more powerful ones are getting down-graded to Low 7-C to High 7-C.

However, there are a lot of calculations that need to be done for new feats which could either bump them up or down a level depended on the numbers.
Click to expand...
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried recalcing the Hubbard glacier feat? This is the current calc being used, I think. It assumes the area that was destroyed was 200 acres. However, the word used in the text was "several hundred". Several means 'more than two but not many' so something around 400-500 seems more accurate.
 
So far the average Demigod is getting down-graded to 8-B (and that's solely because of durability, not because of AP) and the more powerful ones are getting down-graded to Low 7-C to High 7-C.

However, there are a lot of calculations that need to be done for new feats which could either bump them up or down a level depended on the numbers.
Click to expand...
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
The Average demigod is actually 8-C as of now, so that would be an upgrade

I think we also need to compile feats to be calculated
Click to expand...
So, can the character statistics already be modified according to what has been accepted here, or do we need some new calculations first?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RedReaper
  • Locked
Percy gets Mycenaean. (Annabeth gets minor buffs too)
Replies
27
Views
2K
RedReaper
RedReaper
RedReaper
Resistance to Magic
2
Replies
47
Views
3K
GraveDigger84
GraveDigger84
Demigod Lifting Strength Changes (Removal of Class T from the weaker members of the Seven)
Replies
2
Views
423
Cheesecakemaster2
The_Fiend888
Magnus Chase Revisions 1.0
Replies
11
Views
703
Testarossa002
Testarossa002
RanaProGamer
Magnus Chase | Upgrading the Gods
Replies
23
Views
1K
The_Fiend888
The_Fiend888
Back
Top