Rimuru Tempest vs Riven of a Thousand Voices

[Elizhaa]

That's sorta how space time manip works by default, and also not related to mindhax

Also I was saying that Azathoth is fine with 4D itself. You can control F in that thread "higher dimensional existence" if you want.

I think he meant Higher-Dimensional Manipulation because Higher-Dimensional Existence still more solid evidence and would have went against his points as evidence is also needed. Logically, if being 4-D evidence isn't stated to be enough for Higher-Dimensional Existence then I don't see why Higher-Dimensional Manipulation would qualify also.

 

[Wokistan]

He said that he was okay with both, and that he was okay with 4D stuff. The pages were made before Higher Dimensional Existence was a page, that's why they don't have it.

The whole dimensionality revisions coming up is why Oryx isn't tier 2 by default, actually.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I still don't get how it makes sense that the players were able to win against Riven who now supposedly got passive 4D mindhax and just dismiss it as "gameplay mechanic" or "it doesn't count because it had to be beatable!". Under VS rules this battle between players and Riven would be a stomp match that ends in less than a second. Yet in the game, from the video I saw of it, it was a long drawn out battle that actually seems to end in the physical defeat of Riven in the end, of all things, by killing it from the inside or something along those lines.

And do these skills actually work that fast? Note that Rimuru also still got reactive evolution as previously stated. And Riven still doesn't have strong enough soulhax, unless that's 4D too now. In that case this would probably be a stomp though.

 

[Schnee_One]

Maybe they resist it

 

[NeoSuperior]

No it supposedly DOES affect them, but somehow super irregularily or something. I don't get what the argument here is either. But it definitly doesn't seem to be "passive" as previously claimed.

Wouldn't the main source usually overrule any side-materials though?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The destiny profiles are essentially lore profiles, hardly anything to do with the game outside of a base level.

 

[Elizhaa]

The destiny profiles are essentially lore profiles, hardly anything to do with the game outside of a base level.

That doesn't make make sense. The game is primary source. The game's evidence, contradictions, and PIS can't just be ignored because of the lore.

 

[Elizhaa]

No it supposedly DOES affect them, but somehow super irregularily or something. I don't get what the argument here is either. But it definitly doesn't seem to be "passive" as previously claimed.

Wouldn't the main source usually overrule any side-materials though?

Yeah, it doesn't seems passive. The main-source always take precedence over side-materials

 

[Schnee_One]

Lore is part of the game though

Also the resisting seems to be more of a feat then an anti feat honestly, especially if it never fully affected them

 

[NeoSuperior]

So are there actually any feats of the mindhack succeeding against anyone who was NOT "linearized" to 3D beforehand?

 

[Jaw201]

So are there actually any feats of the mindhack succeeding against anyone who was NOT "linearized" to 3D beforehand?

Oryx at least interacted with Riven before she was taken, (Which means Oryx was linearized to 3d during the encounter) and I believe that was when she was able to at least get some mind hax on Oryx.

 

[Sheska444]

still surprising to see ppl here . riven took the double u , just end the thread already fam .

 

[Takaokaoka]

I was reading through the entire thread, and I feel like there isn't enough evidence for Riven being truly 4-D presented, and the evidence of Riven affecting Oryx seems to be done in a 3-D space, wouldn't that mean that it's still only affecting a being that has been linearized into 3-D space and therefore no longer 4-D? If that's the case then Riven hasn't been shown to affect a truly 4-D being with her Mindhax, so now it's back to Riven being able to Pierce Rimuru's Mindhax Resist. I feel like Rimuru would win for the reasons I mentioned, but also FRA.

 

[GLHF22]

Okay i think Rimuru FRA

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I was reading through the entire thread, and I feel like there isn't enough evidence for Riven being truly 4-D presented, and the evidence of Riven affecting Oryx seems to be done in a 3-D space, wouldn't that mean that it's still only affecting a being that has been linearized into 3-D space and therefore no longer 4-D? If that's the case then Riven hasn't been shown to affect a truly 4-D being with her Mindhax, so now it's back to Riven being able to Pierce Rimuru's Mindhax Resist. I feel like Rimuru would win for the reasons I mentioned, but also FRA.

Basically this. I vote Rimuru FRA for now unless the 4-D mindhax has more weight to it.

 

[Everything12]

Rimuru FRA

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Riven was capable of manipulating people who could tank an entire Low 2-C universe trying to destroy their minds

there

happy now?

 

[The_Causality]

The thread?

if it's true, all vote for Rimuru via FRA are nullified and the thread became Borderline stomp

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

That doesn't make make sense. The game is primary source. The game's evidence, contradictions, and PIS can't just be ignored because of the lore.

the Lore IS part of the game. PIS is honestly kinda rampent in Destiny, mainly in Oryx who charged in but could've easily just won if he Took everyone from a solar system away

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

but yeah, every FRA vote for Rimuru just got nulled

 

[The_Causality]

The thread where it has been accepted?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

It's the Ascendent Realm, which is an entire space-time continuum that tries to destroy the minds of anyone who isn't wanted there

 

[Paul_Frank]

Why would you need a thread to accept a universe as a universe

 

[The_Causality]

Because it said that the stuff was accepted somewhere, i want to know where

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

that was in relation to making Oryx 2-B in his Throne World

 

[Rocker1189]

Riven was capable of manipulating people who could tank an entire Low 2-C universe trying to destroy their minds
there

happy now?

isnt this literally what is being discussed? About how that did not happen? All you did was repeat what everyone is already arguing...

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

uh huh

now, please look up the Sea of Screams and come back to me on that

 

[Jackythejack]

Riven FRA

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

For those wondering where all that stuff is from, check here

tl;dr is that the Sea of Screams/Ascendent Plane is the space between Throne Worlds, as well as in them, and is an entire universe on it's own that seeks to destroy the minds of those within it of it's own accord

 

[NeoSuperior]

but yeah, every FRA vote for Rimuru just got nulled

Have you guys actually been reading the contents of this thread? I already explained how even IF that were the case, Rimuru would still win. Mind hax is useless if it doesn't affect both Rimurus, the one on the battlefield and the one in imaginary space, at the same time. Actually even if it did, Ciel could still put both to sleep, trigger reactive evolution and then wake them both up again. I've already explained that previously, but Riven is not going to win through mindhax no matter what.

 

[Jackythejack]

Maybe they've read it but just don't agree with it. I've been loosely following this thread and it eeems kinda iffy for me.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

"The Sea of Screams, the place where it is in the emptiness of the ascendant plane that reaches even the throne worlds that are there. A collective consciousness that maliciously seeks to destroy the mind of one who does not follow the logic of that plane or is simply treated as a virus by it. The Sea of Screams exists throughout the ascendant plane, and the hive uses the same to communicate using whispers, a way of communicating with each other, and destroying the mind and identity of its adversaries. While there are several whispers with all sorts of temptations (like what happened to the user of the thorn) itself contains a infinitude of whispers, which never ends until the mind of the person, his identity, his goal, everything is swallowed by whispers."

Seems pretty clear.

 

[NeoSuperior]

For those wondering where all that stuff is from, check here

tl;dr is that the Sea of Screams/Ascendent Plane is the space between Throne Worlds, as well as in them, and is an entire universe on it's own that seeks to destroy the minds of those within it of it's own accord

Is that even Low 2-C potency? Isn't that just range?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Rimuru only wins if you ignore a majority of Riven's stuff and Destiny as a whole, which you have been doing the entire time along with multiple other people

You are seriously wanking Rimuru and Imaginary Space. If the imaginary space shit acted like you say it does it would count as outside help. Regardless, Riven would realize that there's another Rimuru which may or may not be outside of her range once she mind haxes the clone, Takes the clone and uses that connection to Take the original Rimuru. Ciel can't do shit because she gets Taken as well, that or mind haxed instantly when she tries to put the Taken Rimuru to sleep

 

[NeoSuperior]

Taken fails. It relies on teleporting someone into the darkness, which rimuru resists.

Also mindhax doesn't work on Ciel because she IS soulhax.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Is that even Low 2-C potency? Isn't that just range?

nice bait question

it is Low 2-C potency, this has been agreed to by multiple staff and basically everyone knowledgible on the topic

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Taken fails. It relies on teleporting someone into the darkness, which rimuru resists.

are you serious

there is literally no way to interpret Taking that way you lemon

Taking is using the power of the Darkness

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

also no

you do not need SOUL HAX to MIND HAX someone

 

[NeoSuperior]

are you serious

there is literally no way to interpret Taking that way you lemon

Taking is using the power of the Darkness

Yes I am serious. At least unless you want to tell me that the Destinypedia is telling BS:

The process of Taking involves summoning a portal or aperture that rips an individual out of the universe and transports them to an unknown location within the Ascendant Realm. There, the Taken being encounters an unknown entity (presumably the Darkness itself), who offers them a way to overcome their former weaknesses. The Taken being then returns to their original universe with new paracausal abilities and a compulsion to serve the one that Took them.

Well not "teleport into the darkness" but "teleport to the ascendent realm to where the darkness resides", I guess. Same difference.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Well good luck with that then, since literally nothing at all stops Riven from making the clone just walk in himself. This is assuming that the portal doesn't have something to make people walk into it, which it almost definitely does but that's off-topic

EDIT: actually, it does. "summoning a portal or aperture that rips an individual out of the universe"