- 1,857
- 82
I feel like we are moving in circles here... I feel like we had this conversation before...
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Rimuru Tempest vs Riven of a Thousand Voices
- Thread starter Jaw201
- Start date
- 1,857
- 82
Sounds like spatial hax to me. Rimuru should be able to resist that one though even if it's 4D.Hl3 or bust said:
- 19,246
- 2,685
i have the same feeling
the issue is that your Imaginary Space Rimuru arguments keep moving further away from what is actually used by anyone else, and is getting to the point that you could say "no one can reach Imaginary Space" and it still be accurate according to your own definitions of it
the issue is that your Imaginary Space Rimuru arguments keep moving further away from what is actually used by anyone else, and is getting to the point that you could say "no one can reach Imaginary Space" and it still be accurate according to your own definitions of it
- 19,246
- 2,685
Sounds like spatial hax to me. Rimuru should be able to resist that one though even if it's 4D.
are you ******** me
"opening a portal that sucks someone into it is spatial hax"
i'm not going to dignify that with a responce because that is blatantly wrong on so many levels
are you ******** me
"opening a portal that sucks someone into it is spatial hax"
i'm not going to dignify that with a responce because that is blatantly wrong on so many levels
- 1,857
- 82
Imaginary Space has been an established fact for ages. Take it up with Elizhaa and Celestial Pegasus if either this or the Reactive Evolution feels like "wank" to you.
- 19,246
- 2,685
well for one
originally it was just outside of the multiverse. Now it's disconnected from reality. Nedge even argued that someone with 6D range couldn't get to it, so i don't know about his opinion on it
also Rimuru instantly adapting to hax trillions of times stronger than anything in his own verse is blatant wank, yes
originally it was just outside of the multiverse. Now it's disconnected from reality. Nedge even argued that someone with 6D range couldn't get to it, so i don't know about his opinion on it
also Rimuru instantly adapting to hax trillions of times stronger than anything in his own verse is blatant wank, yes
- 1,857
- 82
Sounds like spatial hax to me. Rimuru should be able to resist that one though even if it's 4D.
are you ******** me
"opening a portal that sucks someone into it is spatial hax"
i'm not going to dignify that with a responce because that is blatantly wrong on so many levels
Basically a black hole then? Or do you mean just because the word "portal" is used, something like sucking-force can't apply? The fact that you'd actually not assume that as the very first thing and instead assume some sort of mindhax or something along those lines is what really is questionable here.
are you ******** me
"opening a portal that sucks someone into it is spatial hax"
i'm not going to dignify that with a responce because that is blatantly wrong on so many levels
Basically a black hole then? Or do you mean just because the word "portal" is used, something like sucking-force can't apply? The fact that you'd actually not assume that as the very first thing and instead assume some sort of mindhax or something along those lines is what really is questionable here.
- 173
- 21
Isn't Destiny going through tier revisions to tier 2? Is this really an okay match to use? It kinda seems like a stomp for Riven.
- 19,246
- 2,685
@Neo
Well for one even outside of that, the Darkness can entice someone to let themselves be Taken. Meaning that the clone would walk into the portal of his own accord. Secondly, when has a portal that sucked someone in instantly meant black hole?
EDIT: sorry if that first bit seems to have come out of nowhere. I honestly only just remembered it
@Kage
Oryx and some high-end Guardians are getting 2-B keys. Riven is unchanged
Well for one even outside of that, the Darkness can entice someone to let themselves be Taken. Meaning that the clone would walk into the portal of his own accord. Secondly, when has a portal that sucked someone in instantly meant black hole?
EDIT: sorry if that first bit seems to have come out of nowhere. I honestly only just remembered it
@Kage
Oryx and some high-end Guardians are getting 2-B keys. Riven is unchanged
- 1,857
- 82
Actually, now that I look at it, Rimuru should be able to disconnect/shut himself off from these "whispers", just like he did with the Voice of the World, which is an (at least) 2-C existence.DragonEmperor23 said:
- 15,999
- 6,003
I don't understand the reason for some of the insults you're throwing, HI3.
- 19,246
- 2,685
I'm a little annoyed at this thread tbh, and it probably wasn't a great idea to get into this right as i woke up. My bad
- 19,246
- 2,685
Actually, now that I look at it, Rimuru should be able to disconnect/shut himself off from these "whispers", just like he did with the Voice of the World, which is an (at least) 2-C existence.
i'm fairly certain that Voice of the World stuff was debunked like 200 posts ago
i'm fairly certain that Voice of the World stuff was debunked like 200 posts ago
- 15,999
- 6,003
Where?
- 19,246
- 2,685
You guys said that the VotW had 2-C mind hax due to being 2-C
this wasn't proven afaik
this wasn't proven afaik
- 15,999
- 6,003
It was. It was literally the first thing we talked about.
- 19,246
- 2,685
except it wasn't
- 1,857
- 82
It's mainly about the form of the mindhax. If it functions through some direct "mind control magic" or some stuff like that, then yes, it would probably have not be equivalent (though I wouldn't rule that out either). But here it's mentioned that it works through "whispers" specifically, like it basically is brainwashing through suggestion, but sped up countless of times. Not even the speed at which this takes effect is specified here though. It actually sounds liks this might be a gradual effect.
Also, wait. Isn't it said that anyone transported to the Ascendant realm gets "linearized" first? As in, they become depowered into being 3D existances? We were in the middle of discussing that when suddenly the discussion regressed back into assuming that we are talking about 4D hax here. If someone can still resist the hax while powered down to a 3D existence, then it should be 3D hax.
Also, wait. Isn't it said that anyone transported to the Ascendant realm gets "linearized" first? As in, they become depowered into being 3D existances? We were in the middle of discussing that when suddenly the discussion regressed back into assuming that we are talking about 4D hax here. If someone can still resist the hax while powered down to a 3D existence, then it should be 3D hax.
- 19,246
- 2,685
no. It's either instant or you resist
no. resisting something while you are 3D does not make the thing you resist 3D. At all.
no. resisting something while you are 3D does not make the thing you resist 3D. At all.
- 15,999
- 6,003
How are you gonna tell us what we established? Your attitude is getting really vexing, to be honest.
"The world was cruel, but it granted you everything.
That was the world that Veldanava had created.
He, who was alone in the empty space, couldn't bear the solitude.
That was the reason why he created the world: in order to distract himself from the boredom.
Then, just as Veldanava wished for, life was born in this world, and beings began to act freely and asserted their Wills.
Finally, after a long time, humankind was born as a vessel for the soul with free will and high intellect.
Veldanava was thrilled.
For Veldanava, who had been bored with the world of emptiness, even just observing the activities of life was fun, but the activities of the creatures called human beings were even more stirring for him."
"However, there was also a problem.
Humans who acquired intellect stimulated each other and took unpredictable actions.
If he left them unattended, they would immediately begin to fight against each other and would walk on the path of self-destruction.
Several other worlds were born, but he could see that all of them had similar tendencies.
Emotions were always the cause.
Emotions were something that had been given to them and was necessary to give people the stimulus to develop even further, but emotions that had grown unchecked tended to reject the opinions of others.
Different Ideas gave rise to various justices, Veldanava pondered.
He decided to accept such phenomena were some necessary evils and the way of the world as a training ground for the soul.
If humans were to be controlled completely, conflicts would disappear.
However, they would lose the stimulus from emotions and the world would end up as a Dystopia, where people were all equal but without free will.
Such a world was not what Veldanava desired.
After that, he experimented many times and tried to develop humans into the direction that he hoped for.
The conditions in many of the Parallel Worlds minutely deviated from one another, which led them to achieve different evolutions.
Meanwhile, he carefully chose humans with matured souls and created Angels and Demons as the manager of the souls without a lifespan.
He constructed a system so that the souls circulated to all dimensions.
He restricted the managers so they wouldn't cause excessive interference and appointed the role of the Observer so that the foundation of the world wouldn't be destroyed.
Those he appointed to be Observers were Guy, Ramiris, and Dino.
I didn't seem to be able to see anything spiritual because the little amount of magic essence in my former world, but perhaps that world might have an Observer, too.
Oh well, not like that thing mattered to me now though.
Anyway, the construction of the system was completed.
The subjugation of the Giants and the likes that appeared irregularly was finished and the world had stabilized."
Again, keep in mind Ciel's FIRST CASUAL feat was her concealing this 2-C entity, and Rimuru got far stronger since than, hence his fight with Yuuki, and he can use his Ultimate Form which increases his strength x2.
"The world was cruel, but it granted you everything.
That was the world that Veldanava had created.
He, who was alone in the empty space, couldn't bear the solitude.
That was the reason why he created the world: in order to distract himself from the boredom.
Then, just as Veldanava wished for, life was born in this world, and beings began to act freely and asserted their Wills.
Finally, after a long time, humankind was born as a vessel for the soul with free will and high intellect.
Veldanava was thrilled.
For Veldanava, who had been bored with the world of emptiness, even just observing the activities of life was fun, but the activities of the creatures called human beings were even more stirring for him."
"However, there was also a problem.
Humans who acquired intellect stimulated each other and took unpredictable actions.
If he left them unattended, they would immediately begin to fight against each other and would walk on the path of self-destruction.
Several other worlds were born, but he could see that all of them had similar tendencies.
Emotions were always the cause.
Emotions were something that had been given to them and was necessary to give people the stimulus to develop even further, but emotions that had grown unchecked tended to reject the opinions of others.
Different Ideas gave rise to various justices, Veldanava pondered.
He decided to accept such phenomena were some necessary evils and the way of the world as a training ground for the soul.
If humans were to be controlled completely, conflicts would disappear.
However, they would lose the stimulus from emotions and the world would end up as a Dystopia, where people were all equal but without free will.
Such a world was not what Veldanava desired.
After that, he experimented many times and tried to develop humans into the direction that he hoped for.
The conditions in many of the Parallel Worlds minutely deviated from one another, which led them to achieve different evolutions.
Meanwhile, he carefully chose humans with matured souls and created Angels and Demons as the manager of the souls without a lifespan.
He constructed a system so that the souls circulated to all dimensions.
He restricted the managers so they wouldn't cause excessive interference and appointed the role of the Observer so that the foundation of the world wouldn't be destroyed.
Those he appointed to be Observers were Guy, Ramiris, and Dino.
I didn't seem to be able to see anything spiritual because the little amount of magic essence in my former world, but perhaps that world might have an Observer, too.
Oh well, not like that thing mattered to me now though.
Anyway, the construction of the system was completed.
The subjugation of the Giants and the likes that appeared irregularly was finished and the world had stabilized."
Again, keep in mind Ciel's FIRST CASUAL feat was her concealing this 2-C entity, and Rimuru got far stronger since than, hence his fight with Yuuki, and he can use his Ultimate Form which increases his strength x2.
- 19,246
- 2,685
Literally your entire claim was that the VotW is has 2-C mind hax for being 2-C. You've gone on to not prove this at all and merely assume it to be true
- 15,999
- 6,003
It's because it literally speaks to you whenever you get a new skill. It's like that for everyone, and Rimuru outright distinguishes it from Great Sage, which would soon become Ciel, which casually concealed it.
- 19,246
- 2,685
Thar wall of text doesn't display anything that could even remotely be mind hax
- 7,142
- 4,658
Wouldn't it also be Soul hax considering it tells people skills including unique and ultiamte skills that come from the soul.
- 19,246
- 2,685
Because this argument is dumb and you dont need soul hax to mind hax someoneEverything12 said:
- 1,857
- 82
As I said, it's about the method of applying it.
An example: Say someone can shoot a "mindbeam" that friess someone's brain if it reaches it. The target does not have mindhax resistance, so if it hits it would instantly mindbreak the target. However the target got a "anti-beam shield that can nullify all beams", and so the target would resist the attack because it's a beam attack specifically.
Same thing here. Whispers can't mindhax if they can't reach.
An example: Say someone can shoot a "mindbeam" that friess someone's brain if it reaches it. The target does not have mindhax resistance, so if it hits it would instantly mindbreak the target. However the target got a "anti-beam shield that can nullify all beams", and so the target would resist the attack because it's a beam attack specifically.
Same thing here. Whispers can't mindhax if they can't reach.
- 7,142
- 4,658
How did it kill Veldanava again? Didn't it indirectly do it by making humans kill him and his wife so that it looked like it was purely the humans doing?
- 15,999
- 6,003
No, that explains it's AT LEAST a 2-C entity.
"《Notification. Manas (God's Wisdom Core): Ciel was born from Ultimate Skill『Wisdom Lord Raphael』.
This announcement was concealed by Manas: Ciel.》
Suddenly, the "Voice of the World" had reached my mind.
This is…… an evolution?
Raphael-sensei, no Ciel-sensei seemed to be able to hide it in concealment mode.
Ciel seemed to able to conceal even the "Voice of the World". I'm amazed."
At LEAST 2-C resistance to mindhax.
"《Notification. Manas (God's Wisdom Core): Ciel was born from Ultimate Skill『Wisdom Lord Raphael』.
This announcement was concealed by Manas: Ciel.》
Suddenly, the "Voice of the World" had reached my mind.
This is…… an evolution?
Raphael-sensei, no Ciel-sensei seemed to be able to hide it in concealment mode.
Ciel seemed to able to conceal even the "Voice of the World". I'm amazed."
At LEAST 2-C resistance to mindhax.
- 15,999
- 6,003
No, it's because he loved Lucia, instead of everyone equally, Lucia died.Everything12 said:
- 19,246
- 2,685
You still haven't proven 2-C mind hax at all
@Neo
What????? That is a blatant red herring. The logic you are using to day rhat Ciel can't be affected does not work. Simple as that
@Neo
What????? That is a blatant red herring. The logic you are using to day rhat Ciel can't be affected does not work. Simple as that
- 7,142
- 4,658
Isn't that less resisting mind hax, its not preventing the world from reading and communciating with his mind its more controlling the system so that the system doesn't reveal it, wouldn't that be law hax or reality warping or something.
- 15,999
- 6,003
It speaks directly to the mind, and only they can hear it.
- 1,857
- 82
The point is it can shut out the voice of a 2-C existence.
And in this thread we have the case of a Low 2-C existence using accelerated compressed voices to brainwash someone.
The method is the same so the resistance should be appliable.
Also it only ever seems to affect people in a 3D state. Earlier I asked for mindhax feats against someone who is 4D (and at the time of the feat NOT "lineralized") and I haven't seen anything like that yet.
And in this thread we have the case of a Low 2-C existence using accelerated compressed voices to brainwash someone.
The method is the same so the resistance should be appliable.
Also it only ever seems to affect people in a 3D state. Earlier I asked for mindhax feats against someone who is 4D (and at the time of the feat NOT "lineralized") and I haven't seen anything like that yet.
- 19,246
- 2,685
Except that the SoS is is not literally a voice
It is not suggestion, or whatever you want to call it. Its is mind hax. Plain and simple
It is not suggestion, or whatever you want to call it. Its is mind hax. Plain and simple
- 7,142
- 4,658
It didn't prevent the Voice of the World comunicating with Rimuru it controlled it and stopped it from speaking to everyone else, thats not mind hax resistance its conrtrolling a mulitversal system but its not preventing it from talking to Rimuru's mind. "Suddenly, the "Voice of the World" had reached my mind."
Besides the system didn't kill Veldanava, its used a enemy nation as proxy to kill him and his wife, also its very debatable if he was 2-C then considering its a fact that when he had Milim he lost alot of his power, though he might have still had his Skills and Primordial Magic, but he was definitely skilled by humans so he probably wasn't anywhere close to 2-C.
Besides the system didn't kill Veldanava, its used a enemy nation as proxy to kill him and his wife, also its very debatable if he was 2-C then considering its a fact that when he had Milim he lost alot of his power, though he might have still had his Skills and Primordial Magic, but he was definitely skilled by humans so he probably wasn't anywhere close to 2-C.
- 19,246
- 2,685
Dude
Being 3D does not adfact your resistances at all
Being 3D does not adfact your resistances at all
- 1,857
- 82
Is it actually stated that the "whispers" are not actual whispers? Just dismissing a potential weakpoint of an ability like that as a figure of speech is cherrypicking.
- 15,999
- 6,003
I have no idea what you are trying to argue here.Everything12 said:
- 19,246
- 2,685
Says the guy constantly redefining things to suit what he wantsNeoSuperior said:
Of the SoS was literally just whispers, it would only be Infinite 3D mind hax and not treated as anything special. As already stated and proven, it isn't
- 1,857
- 82
But it seems anyone thrown into the Ascendant Realm has been depowered into 3D (from what I read here at least), so are there actually any feats proving that it got 4D potency? Since said "4D mindhax resistance" scaled from that in the first place, if I understood it correctly.
Similar threads
- Locked
