Rimuru Tempest VS Reinhard Van Astrea VS Ainz Ooal Gown (0-2-2-0)

[DaReaperMan]

Note: Rimuru has now been changed to Light Novel version.


It depends. In this case the "soul possession" is absorption that seems extremely vague. It could potentially require the soul to actually be damaged during the consumption process, like how humans eat/devour food, in which case it wouldn't really work.


The thing is, will he be doing this to both Rimuru and Reinhard? Reinhard ain't the only one in the matchup. Can he fend off them both at once?

Cause like...

1. Match starts
2. Ainz, Rimuru, and Reinhard see each other a medium distance away.
3. Reinhard's first move is to swing his sword. Rimuru's first move is to analyze and then use whatever ability would work best for him.

In order for Ainz to win, he must do something that immediately eliminates Reinhard as a threat. Is his first move 100% of the time going to be something that does that? If not, what would the percent look like?

Oh lovely, in noooo way could this go wrong...

Can you prove it does? No, not in this case, cause we don't know and assuming is a bad thing to do.

Rimuru dies in Ainz' opening move lmfao, he's still got baseline Death resistance from what I'm seeing

If you actually read Ainz Ooal Gown's profile, you'd see his opening move most often is Time Stop. From there he can make Christmas trees of spells of the opponents to test their Resistances. This includes Death Manipulation. Rimuru dies in the opening act and if Ainz chooses to stand next to Reinhard he dies from Despair Aura V repeatedly and is incapped. And if he remains any decent amount of time Dead the first time, Reinhard is getting looted. Ainz probably steals Reid off of Reinhard's corpse first thing lol

Ainz loves his magical artifacts you know!

 

[Phoenks]

Can you prove it does? No, not in this case, cause we don't know and assuming is a bad thing to do.

The act of "consuming" or "eating" as generally conceived would require damage to be done to the target.

Consume: eat, drink, or ingest (food or drink).

Eat: put (food) into the mouth and chew and swallow it.

Chew: bite and work (food) in the mouth with the teeth, especially to make it easier to swallow.

Going by standard definitions, the description used to describe the ability of the Soul Eaters would require damaging Reinhard's soul, which they can't do.

Thus, it's now on you to prove that the description is not going by the standard notion of what "consuming" is. Because that would be the general assumption, if no other context is provided.

Rimuru dies in Ainz' opening move lmfao, he's still got baseline Death resistance from what I'm seeing

Why is Ainz's death hax above baseline again? You said it's because he has some amp, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a layer

 

[DaReaperMan]

The act of "consuming" or "eating" as generally conceived would require damage to be done to the target.

Consume: eat, drink, or ingest (food or drink).

Eat: put (food) into the mouth and chew and swallow it.

Chew: bite and work (food) in the mouth with the teeth, especially to make it easier to swallow.

Going by standard definitions, the description used to describe the ability of the Soul Eaters would require damaging Reinhard's soul, which they can't do.

Thus, it's now on you to prove that the description is not going by the standard notion of what "consuming" is. Because that would be the general assumption, if no other context is provided.

Why is Ainz's death hax above baseline again? You said it's because he has some amp, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a layer

Why are we assuming the definition when it comes to souls Pheonks, souls aren't a steak, you can't normally eat them lol... also it doesn't matter cause Reinhard's soul would be forced out of his body anyways lol

MFer it could a layer or just above baseline, either way it kills the SEEMINGLY baseline Resistances at play here, and what certainly does is Despair Aura which Isn't Magic

 

[Phoenks]

Why are we assuming the definition when it comes to souls Pheonks, souls aren't a steak, you can't normally eat them lol... also it doesn't matter cause Reinhard's soul would be forced out of his body anyways lol

We assume the definition because that's the generic meaning of the word. Why wouldn't we assume the definition? If not, what then is the assumption, and why? Anything else would require you to give more context... That's just how it is when you have a vague ability, man.

How would the soul be forced out of his body? Isn't that during the process of their consumption? If they can't consume the soul, they can't move it either... at least going by the scans.

MFer it could a layer or just above baseline, either way it kills the SEEMINGLY baseline Resistances at play here, and what certainly does is Despair Aura which Isn't Magic

Rimuru's resistance is to a presence that results in instant death, rather than magic, as well.

Uh, well, "stronger" than baseline death hax vs baseline resistance. I'm not sure how the wiki treats it.

Without a resistance to compare it to, what "baseline" and "above baseline" are becomes a bit blurry. For example, someone who can kill someone in an instant with death hax would usually be considered to be "stronger" than someone who can kill someone over the course of 10 minutes. You could also say someone who can kill multiple/more people than another has "stronger" death hax.

Even if they are both just 1 layer of the ability.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Leaving the only fight that's actually usable for his general starting move being Puck vs Reinhard, where he did in fact swing his sword to erase him. That was his first move. He doesn't tend to waste time.

What about the chick who likes slashing guts open?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why wouldn't we assume the definition? If not, what then is the assumption, and why? Anything else would require you to give more context... That's just how it is when you have a vague ability, man.

What we're given is that the souls around it are taken out, shanghai'd to the Soul Eater, and turned into power for it. Minimizing assumptions there isn't even travel time for the soul, it just turns into power for the Soul Eater Via unknown means

How would the soul be forced out of his body? Isn't that during the process of their consumption? If they can't consume the soul, they can't move it either... at least going by the scans.

Instant Death Resistance in Overlord is a lot more than just Death Manipulation ya know! Also see above

Rimuru's resistance is to a presence that results in instant death, rather than magic, as well.

And Ainz would open with the magic variation, in his Christmas trees so uh, Rimuru doesn't resist it at all lol

Uh, well, "stronger" than baseline death hax vs baseline resistance. I'm not sure how the wiki treats it.

Without a resistance to compare it to, what is "above baseline" becomes a bit blurry. For example, someone who can kill someone in an instant with death hax would usually be considered to be "stronger" than someone who can kill someone over the course of 10 minutes.

Even if they are both just 1 layer of the ability.

In the same way scaling chains in Immeasurable exist, you can be stronger then someone in a layer in that hax and not have a layer added on, a baseline resistance is overpowered, but if there's a layer at play, it covers as normal

That's how I understand it at least

 

[Phoenks]

What about the chick who likes slashing guts open?

He was unable to draw Reid as she wasn't worthy.

What we're given is that the souls around it are taken out, shanghai'd to the Soul Eater, and turned into power for it. Minimizing assumptions there isn't even travel time for the soul, it just turns into power for the Soul Eater Via unknown means

They're taken out before the process begins? Is that stated/shown?

"turned into power" via consumption, no? Which, if the means are unknown, we go by the normal definition of consumption.

And Ainz would open with the magic variation, so uh, Rimuru doesn't resist it at all lol

Fair.

(Honestly, I think his resistance is a bit wack. It just says the presence is too strong for humans to endure. That doesn't real equate to death hax. Just Overwhelming Aura)

In the same way scaling chains in Immeasurable exist, you can be stronger then someone in a layer in that hax and not have a layer added on, a baseline resistance is overpowered, but if there's a layer at play, it covers as normal

That's how I understand it at least

Well, yeah, but...

What "baseline" even is becomes extremely blurry unless you are referring to layers, I think.

Which in-turn means what "stronger than baseline" means is also extremely blurry. Unless, do you think that a death hax that takes 100 years to kill someone is equivalent to a death hax that takes 0.1 seconds in terms of strength?

Like, what about Ainz death hax is even amplified? Because anything could be considered a buff - the amount of people it affects at once, how long it takes to apply, how fast it happens, etc...

 

[Zabazab]

What about the chick who likes slashing guts open?

He was intentionally holding back as much as he possibly could in order to allow Emilia to heal Old Man Rom. Whenever Reinhard decides to actually fight, all of the Mana in the surrounding turns towards him, making using magic impossible.

As soon as Rom was healed, he "Finally, for the first time, held his sword. No- he had been holding it since the start, but only now did it feel appropriate to say that the Sword Saint had readied his sword."

 

[DaReaperMan]

They're taken out before the process begins? Is that stated/shown?

They just drop dead so uh, "process" is a strong word hede

"turned into power" via consumption, no? Which, if the means are unknown, we go by the normal definition of consumption.

You don't consume something instantly Pheonks lol

Fair.

(Honestly, I think his resistance is a bit wack. It just says the presence is too strong for humans to endure. That doesn't real equate to death hax. Just Overwhelming Aura)

Yeah, but many things about LN Rimuru are a bit wack

Well, yeah, but...

What "baseline" even is becomes extremely blurry unless you are referring to layers, I think.

Which in-turn means what "stronger than baseline" means is also extremely blurry.

Like, what about Ainz death hax is even amplified? Because anything could be considered a buff - the amount of people it affects at once, how long it takes to apply, how fast it happens, etc...

Literally how well it works lmfao, I wouldn't be bringing it up if it wasn't that, because it's INSTANT death, so how fast doesn't apply, and how long is beaten out by Ainz having Silent Magic(aka thought-based magic, same applies to skills, actually)

 

[Phoenks]

They just drop dead so uh, "process" is a strong word hede

I'm asking do they take out the souls before they consume them?

If so, is there a reference for that?

You don't consume something instantly Pheonks lol

Why not? Even if they had infinite speed, the normal process of consuming could still be done, and would still be assumed, since that's the basic definition, and there's nothing else to go off.

Yeah, but many things about LN Rimuru are a bit wack

Someone should pull a Fujiwara on that verse.

Literally how well it works lmfao, I wouldn't be bringing it up if it wasn't that, because it's INSTANT death, so how fast doesn't apply, and how long is beaten out by Ainz having Silent Magic(aka thought-based magic, same applies to skills, actually)

Well, then...

Purely for the sake of argument and my own curiosity, what happens if we assume Rimuru resist it? What is Ainz' counter?

 

[Zabazab]

I'm asking do they take out the souls before they consume them?

If so, is there a reference for that?

One and Two

It sounds like resistance to their instant death effect is enough to get around their unique soul-eating ability. Killing someone that resists their death hax in the Soul Eaters range might work to have their soul eaten, I'd guess.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm asking do they take out the souls before they consume them?

Kind of have to lol, after all, it's not touch-based crap

Why not? Even if they had infinite speed, the normal process of consuming could still be done, and would still be assumed, since that's the basic definition, and there's nothing else to go off.

Pheonks, when you start teleporting food and drink into your stomach let me know, kay?

Someone should pull a Fujiwara on that verse.

Indeed

Well, then...

Purely for the sake of argument and my own curiosity, what happens if we assume Rimuru resist it? What is Ainz' counter?

Assuming Rimuru resists both, teleport out and let Reinhard kill him lol

It's that bad, cause Ainz can't deal with that good of regen combined with that level of absorption

 

[Phoenks]

One and Two

I don't see any mention of them taking out the souls before they're consumed.

"Soul Eaters were able to activate an aura that consumed souls to convert them to HP, which meant that this strategy included a way to negate the fall damage taken by the units almost immediately."

This mentions it being a kind of "aura."

"The Soul Eaters who consumed their souls became stronger in turn."

This just mentions them consuming souls.

Pheonks, when you start teleporting food and drink into your stomach let me know, kay?

So now it's teleportation? Where is that mentioned? All I see is that they consume souls.

Assuming Rimuru resists both, teleport out and let Reinhard kill him lol

It's that bad, cause Ainz can't deal with that good of regen combined with that level of absorption

Dang.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't see any mention of them taking out the souls before they're consumed.

"Soul Eaters were able to activate an aura that consumed souls to convert them to HP, which meant that this strategy included a way to negate the fall damage taken by the units almost immediately."

This mentions it being a kind of "aura."

"The Soul Eaters who consumed their souls became stronger in turn."

This just mentions them consuming souls.

So now it's teleportation? Where is that mentioned? All I see is that they consume souls.


Dang.

They died instantly Pheonks, going all in on your assumption of "consume"=like food/water, they wouldn't be dying instantly, It would take a little bit, even less than a second... But no, it's instant. You literally cannot be correct here, no matter how much you try to argue, consume is not like food and water, because that takes time, and isn't done instantly

 

[Phoenks]

They died instantly Pheonks, going all in on your assumption of "consume"=like food/water, they wouldn't be dying instantly, It would take a little bit, even less than a second... But no, it's instant. You literally cannot be correct here, no matter how much you try to argue, consume is not like food and water, because that takes time, and isn't done instantly

Why can't eating be done instantly? Even going by regular definition.

If you really want to go deep into this, you would eventually have to argue that instantaneous movement/action is impossible, which isn't the case in fiction. So what exactly do you mean?

In fact, you seem to be arguing that instant eating is impossible, but instant "absorption" (whatever your definition of that is) is, which is even more strange. What separates the two?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why can't eating be done instantly? Even going by regular definition.

If you really want to go deep into this, you would eventually have to argue that instantaneous movement is impossible, which isn't the case in fiction. So what exactly do you mean?

"Consume: eat, drink, or ingest (food or drink).

Eat: put (food) into the mouth and chew and swallow it."

Ingest: take (food, drink, or another substance) into the body by swallowing or absorbing it.

Ooh, now this is funny as **** Pheonks, let's have it your way for a bit, and let's say the standard definition of Consume as you provided it applies here... Ingest literally has Absorb in the definition without any mention of damaging the thing being absorbed lol

As for why it can't, two of the three things you threw out can't be instant lol

 

[Phoenks]

"Consume: eat, drink, or ingest (food or drink).

Eat: put (food) into the mouth and chew and swallow it."

Ingest: take (food, drink, or another substance) into the body by swallowing or absorbing it.

Ooh, now this is funny as **** Pheonks, let's have it your way for a bit, and let's say the standard definition of Consume as you provided it applies here... Ingest literally has Absorb in the definition without any mention of damaging the thing being absorbed lol

As for why it can't, two of the three things you threw out can't be instant lol

Why can absorption be instantaneous in your mind, but not eating? Curious about that.

Even in the real world, both of these actions are not instantaneous, ever. In fiction, the limitation there is lifted, and both can be instantaneous given the situation, so I'm uncertain why you are saying this.

-

Anyway, assuming that it is "ingest" instead of "eat," then you have more of a argument... but even then, your chance of him killing Reinhard is still cut in half since it could mean different things (one of which is resisted by Reinhard) and there's no way to determine which one is more accurate.

 

[Zabazab]

Is TS + Grasp Heart (his fav spell) not more likely than summoning a specific lower-level enemy?

I doubt that summoning soul eaters immediately is nearly as in-character as Reinhard swinging his sword one (1) time.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why can absorption be instantaneous in your mind, but not eating? Curious about that.

Even in the real world, both of these actions are not instantaneous, ever. In fiction, the limitation there is lifted, and both can be instantaneous given the situation, so I'm uncertain why you are saying this.

-

Anyway, assuming that it is "ingest" instead of "eat," then you have more of a argument... but even then, your chance of him killing Reinhard is still cut in half since it could mean different things and there's no way to determine which one is more accurate.

Because Aborbing something doesn't take like 5 steps from chewing, or if it's not food, then drinking, going down the throat, marinating in the stomach(which can take HOURS to WEEKS by the way!), to then getting the nutrients and finally finishing consuming the thing. Plus, Souls aren't food/water, so they follow different rules.

Unfortunately more points towards ingest here, sorry, but that's still one tick for a wincon from Ainz

Is TS + Grasp Heart (his fav spell) not more likely than summoning a specific lower-level enemy?

I doubt that summoning soul eaters immediately is nearly as in-character as Reinhard swinging his sword one (1) time.

Ainz, unless he knows for a fact the enemy goes down to just Instant Death, always Christmas trees the opponent to test Resistances. So chances that he summons Soul Eaters is actually reasonably high for part of his resistance testing in the time stop alongside like, death Manipulation and whatever other two dozen spells he uses

prove Reinhard ressurects instantly, cause if he doesn't, he's not gonna have Reid at all... cause Ainz would ******* steal it

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ainz when Reinhard is on the ground for .2 seconds

 

[Phoenks]

Because Aborbing something doesn't take like 5 steps from chewing

Eating and "digesting" something are not the same thing. Digesting has more steps to it. But even then, the steps here are irrelevant. I could go on and bring up examples of when absorbing something in the real world takes more steps than chewing something, or whatever the ****, but that's not really what we're talking about here.

We are talking about speed. You brought up something being instantaneous, which refers to speed, not steps.

Both "absorption" and "eating" are actions that take non-instant amounts of time to do in the real world. In many cases, absorption takes way longer. In many other cases, the opposite is true. Still, that doesn't mean much since this is fiction.

In fiction, these processes can be however fast as you damn want them to be. The "steps" are irrelevant.

Even going further into your argument, what the hell stops a fictional character from instantly doing all the steps of digestion? Hell, there's a guy who does that in the match right now!

Unfortunately more points towards ingest here, sorry, but that's still one tick for a wincon from Ainz

I don't see how it points to ingest specifically.

I think it's a win-con as well, but I don't think that Soul Eaters are a 100% victory for Ainz even if he uses them.

 

[Zabazab]

I think it's a win-con as well, but I don't think that Soul Eaters are a 100% victory for Ainz even if he uses them.

It is questionable tbf, since Satella's shadows are able to absorb and blend together the bodies, minds, and souls within them into a heterogenous soup, and it has been stated that she cannot defeat Reinhard even if they fought forever.

Unfortunately even if Ainz took Reid, it'd be a useless trophy. Reid can only be drawn by the holder of the Blessing of the Sword Saint, and even then only if it decides the opponent is worthy. It's essentially an indestructable bat lol

 

[Phoenks]

It is questionable tbf, since Satella's shadows are able to absorb and blend together the bodies, minds, and souls within them into a heterogenous soup, and it has been stated that she cannot defeat Reinhard even if they fought forever.

Oh yeah she can do that even with just her basic shadow absorption stuff, can't she? Reinhard would definitely resist that.

 

[KingNanaya]

no

 

[BoastJr]

Is TS + Grasp Heart (his fav spell) not more likely than summoning a specific lower-level enemy?

I doubt that summoning soul eaters immediately is nearly as in-character as Reinhard swinging his sword one (1) time.

Ainz does use summons but its more RNG what he does after death hax.

In V13 (or V12) Ainz used Reality Slash after his death hax didnt work on a demihuman.

Plus some of his spells are limited by range even if he amps it with Widen Magic (Cry of the Banshee being over 100M AoE omnidirectional)

 

[DaReaperMan]

It is questionable tbf, since Satella's shadows are able to absorb and blend together the bodies, minds, and souls within them into a heterogenous soup, and it has been stated that she cannot defeat Reinhard even if they fought forever.

Then I'm not gonna argue about it further lmfao

Unfortunately even if Ainz took Reid, it'd be a useless trophy. Reid can only be drawn by the holder of the Blessing of the Sword Saint, and even then only if it decides the opponent is worthy. It's essentially an indestructable bat lol

Yeah but that means Reinhard just lacks his High 6-C everything around me must ******* die option which let's Ainz more smoothly do his thing, seeing as Reinhard is a prime target for say, Despair Aura V

 

[Zabazab]

Oh yeah she can do that even with just her basic shadow absorption stuff, can't she? Reinhard would definitely resist that.

Yeah; Volume 12, Chapter 1 "LOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVEMEEE", Section 4 & 5

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ainz does use summons but its more RNG what he does after death hax.

In V13 (or V12) Ainz used Reality Slash after his death hax didnt work on a demihuman.

Plus some of his spells are limited by range even if he amps it with Widen Magic (Cry of the Banshee being over 100M AoE omnidirectional)

"As an arcane magic caster, Ainz does his best to fight his opponents at range, only tending to close the distance when he has frontliners covering for him or a spell requires him to be closer. As a necromancer, Ainz is able to summon many kinds of undead which he will use to support himself in battle, such as by summoning undead to act as his frontliners, distractions, damage support, etc.[52][53] Ainz won't just rely on his summons to protect him, and makes sure to cast buffs whenever he can, being proficient in applying buffs himself even in the middle of combat.[54] When engaged in a proper fight Ainz will start with his Time Stop spell, knowing full well how important Time Stop countermeasures are, as well as being able to use it as a chance to investigate his opponent's potential weaknesses.[55][56][57][58][59] Unless his opponent is one which he believes to have resistance to Instant Death effects by default, such as an Undead or Golem, Ainz will likely follow up with one of his Instant Death abilities due to Necromantic abilities being his specialty, with his favorite being Grasp Heart.[10][60] However, Ainz is also largely reactionary, using whatever spells and tactics fit the situation and what he wants to accomplish, such as attempting to use the less conventional spell Greater Break Item on Riku's various weapons in the midst of combat, or repeatedly using Perfect Unknowable for hit and run tactics during his fight against Wrath and the doppelganger Pleiades to deplete their numbers."

Ainz's profile literally explains his tactics to a T lmfao

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah but that means Reinhard just lacks his High 6-C everything around me must ******* die option which let's Ainz more smoothly do his thing, seeing as Reinhard is a prime target for say, Despair Aura V

Forgot to say: We don't really know about how fast the Blessing of the Phoenix is other than he chooses when to come back.

The one time he used it, he traded his life for hostages. When the deal to free them was double-crossed, he immediately reappeared in a burst of flame.

Either way Reinhard still has kilometers-ranged tier 6 attacks without a sword- the pressure of him swinging his hand like a sword, for instance.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Forgot to say: We don't really know about how fast the Blessing of the Phoenix is other than he chooses when to come back.

The one time he used it, he traded his life for hostages. When the deal to free them was double-crossed, he immediately reappeared in a burst of flame.

Either way Reinhard still has kilometers-ranged tier 6 attacks without a sword- the pressure of him swinging his hand like a sword, for instance.

Then uh

Reinhard is losing just about every item on his ass that could possibly by supernatural or magical lmfao...

Also how do we know his Resurrection is even combat-acclible?

 

[Phoenks]

Also how do we know his Resurrection is even combat-acclible?

Because he controls when he reappears.

 

[BoastJr]

Here is a question

Ainz could theoretically TimeStop Reinhard attack and Tp out (Greater Teleportation)

In V16 (I think) its implied Players constantly use teleportation to escape encounters (Lopside duel was a spell to teleport the caster to the enemy incase this happened).

Ainz could technically Tp out of the range (Shalltear used it to do a similar thing in V3 but I am not entirely sure if Ainz would know what distance is a safe range)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Because he controls when he reappears.

You know I just love how this crucial piece of information isn't on his profile

 

[Zabazab]

He intentionally remained dead for a litte bit as to ensure the hostage's safety, and chose to return as soon as that was no longer guaranteed.

The description of the Blessing of the Phoenix is simply "Upon death, the holder of this Blessing gets a single "Continue?" The Blessing vanishes after use."
A more flowery explanation given at one point is "As long as this world cries out for a hero, even if you defeat me, a second and third 'me' shall appear."
The Blessing also can resurrect as long as the soul remains intact, making it low-godly.

 

[Phoenks]

Reinhard fans, it's over. Ainz resists existence erasure Nooooooo

Edit: nevermind the AP still claps

 

[noninho]

Can my vote for ainz be counted in op/title (dunno how OP wanna make the counting), since it's been stablished that it's a highly consistent wincon for him?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Reinhard fans, it's over. Ainz resists existence erasure Nooooooo

Edit: nevermind the AP still claps

You just now realized this?! Lmfao!!!

 

[noninho]

You just now realized this?! Lmfao!!!

I just love how sometimes this guy can act like best boi bag of bones (I can even somewhat imagine some things voiced by Orlando Drummond, his VA in Brazil, I swear)

 

[Zabazab]

Edit: nevermind the AP still claps

My GOAT

 

[BoastJr]

You just now realized this?! Lmfao!!!

Can't Ainz ressurect and shit ? He has a ring