Revenge Death Ball Return

[Lightning_XXI]

tbf if one attack is really strong enough, one can reduce another to atoms, it would need to be stupidly strong sure, but it can be done with AP alone

Well yeah, but that isn't Baby's case, not against SS4 Goku at least

This seems like hyperbole

Such an specific quote being discarded as hyperbole like that ? Unlikely, Baby literally emphasized the exact effect of his attack while hyperboles are more exaggerated and less detail-oriented

 

[Damage3245]

Remember when Frieza said that his attack against Top had the energy to destroy a planet?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

In fact, this phrase from Piccolo is a translation error like the others, there is already a translation of them here

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

Hey, hey, fanta here. Back again. Can somebody translate these pages? Controversial novel statements that are very important to a verse's scaling.

vsbattles.com

In all these statements about Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza, it's a translation error, but baby's translation is unique, it's right here.

Spoiler: Scan 1

Goku: T--that bastard!!



As ever, they do the most absurd things...!!



Roshi: Phew...



Had Goku not done that, everyone here would be smashed into pieces.



Goku: Now I'll be returning the favor with this!!



The Super Kamehameha!!

Spoiler: Scan 2

Goku: Hah...hah...



Freiza(?): ......why won't this persistent wrench just die already?



Fine then!! I'll just smash you into pieces like I did to that earthling!!!

Spoiler: Scan 3

Piccolo:



Reduced into pieces!!!



Not even Shenron (Divine Dragon/Shenlong) can restore him now!!!

For people who are still in doubt about whether it's hyperbole or not, keep in mind that all those previous quotes from villains claiming that they're destroying at the atomic level is a translation error, so those phrases are not linked to the one in my Op, because that's the only phrase that really makes sense in it and is reaffirmed by Baby and in addition to the genkidama being able to manipulate cells, so any argument based on it being hyperbole falls flat.

 

[Omegabronic]

Well yeah, but that isn't Baby's case, not against SS4 Goku at least

........yeah? the statement is when Baby is about to trow it at beaten base Goku pre SSJ4

Such an specific quote being discarded as hyperbole like that ?

i wouldn't call the quote "specific" in any particular way

Unlikely, Baby literally emphasized the exact effect of his attack while hyperboles are more exaggerated and less detail-oriented

1 the after effect of the attack can be simply done with AP alone, which we even have examples in the series of such, so even if he was being literal it wouldn't need to be Matter hax

2 in the same phrase after the atoms part he says he will reduce Goku to dust, so, yeah

 

[Omegabronic]

For people who are still in doubt about whether it's hyperbole or not, keep in mind that all those previous quotes from villains claiming that they're destroying at the atomic level is a translation error, so those phrases are not linked to the one in my Op, because that's the only phrase that really makes sense in it and is reaffirmed by Baby and in addition to the genkidama being able to manipulate cells, so any argument based on it being hyperbole falls flat.

the Genki Dama can't manipulate cells, any blast strong enough can destroy cells, it just had enough AP above Buu to destroy him at that level and beyond(since buu could regen from Vapor), it doesn't need to be hax for baby's word to be true, AP alone is enough to reduce one to atoms

 

[Lightning_XXI]

i wouldn't call the quote "specific" in any particular way

Then what it takes for you to someone be specific ? Must any matter hax come alongside a science book ? Baby was in the middle of a fight and described how his attack works while most of the other quotes either don't go into details or are based on translation errors apparently, he corrected himself so that he would have a chance to explain the effect of his attack, how does that sound like a mere hyperbole ?

The statement itself being considered a hyperbole has no basis, it comes from an unreasonable burden of proof from you. I'd understand the AP gap excuse given Baby had a less specific description for his attack, but that wasn't what happened, and in Dragon Ball, afaik no villain said this even when they were ready to blast Goku with a higher powerlevel, so I'll keep in agreement for now

 

[GarrixianXD]

This was the exact translation so far.

He said Molecules first, but then corrected himself with the "Down to your individual atoms". Basically, he said something that would confirm molecular level destruction but corrected himself to say atomic level destruction in the same sentence.

Still sounds rather bit vague to me for it to be completely certain, gonna have to put some thought.

@LuffyRuffy46307 I’d be fine with possibly Atomic Manipulation.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Still sounds rather bit vague to me for it to be completely certain, gonna have to put some thought.

@LuffyRuffy46307 I’d be fine with possibly Atomic Manipulation.

Thank you very much for your contribution.

 

[Omegabronic]

Then what it takes for you to someone be specific ? Must any matter hax come alongside a science book ?

context among other things

Baby was in the middle of a fight and described how his attack works

no, he threatened Goku on what would happen to him, which as i explained, can all be done with AP alone

while most of the other quotes either don't go into details or are based on translation errors apparently

i am discussing this scene, not other ones, also what other scenes from the fight are you talking about

he corrected himself so that he would have a chance to explain the effect of his attack, how does that sound like a mere hyperbole ?

he corrected himself? for me it looks more like he just changed the wording to get his poing acrossed better, specially when he does it again when he says Goku would be reduced to dust instead in the words immediately following

The statement itself being considered a hyperbole has no basis, it comes from an unreasonable burden of proof from you.

not unreasonable when putting the context(Baby's hatred) and the phrase that would contradict the atomization part in the picture, weird how you ignored the dust part of the phrase you know

I'd understand the AP gap excuse given Baby had a less specific description for his attack, but that wasn't what happened

tell me what in the phrase makes it specific that it would be hax rather than AP, the attack is a vague "i will reduce you to atoms" which doesn't specify the means at all

, and in Dragon Ball, afaik no villain said this even when they were ready to blast Goku with a higher powerlevel

your point? also Piccolo did just that against Goku

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Wait, I'm stupid; why didn't I process that? Why wouldn't it just be destruction?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Is destroying Cell or Kid Buu at the cellular level an example of Biological Manipulation?

 

[Omegabronic]

Is destroying Cell or Kid Buu at the cellular level an example of Biological Manipulation?

no, it is just AP high enough to destroy them at that level

 

[Damage3245]

I disagree with Atomic Manipulation. That statement would just be AP.

 

[RenderGK]

your point? also Piccolo did just that against Goku

Piccolo never said that he will destroy Goku at the atomic level with a higher power.

 

[RenderGK]

In fact, this phrase from Piccolo is a translation error like the others, there is already a translation of them here

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

Hey, hey, fanta here. Back again. Can somebody translate these pages? Controversial novel statements that are very important to a verse's scaling.

vsbattles.com

In all these statements about Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza, it's a translation error, but baby's translation is unique, it's right here.

Spoiler: Scan 1

Goku: T--that bastard!!



As ever, they do the most absurd things...!!



Roshi: Phew...



Had Goku not done that, everyone here would be smashed into pieces.



Goku: Now I'll be returning the favor with this!!



The Super Kamehameha!!

Spoiler: Scan 2

Goku: Hah...hah...



Freiza(?): ......why won't this persistent wrench just die already?



Fine then!! I'll just smash you into pieces like I did to that earthling!!!

Spoiler: Scan 3

Piccolo:



Reduced into pieces!!!



Not even Shenron (Divine Dragon/Shenlong) can restore him now!!!

here

 

[Deleted member 40688]

destroy atoms to obliterate targets -- from the matter manipulation page
I'm not sure what's the disagreement is for?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

destroy atoms to obliterate targets -- from the matter manipulation page
I'm not sure what's the disagreement is for?

Lol

 

[Damage3245]

destroy atoms to obliterate targets -- from the matter manipulation page
I'm not sure what's the disagreement is for?

Nowhere in the OP does it actually say destroy atoms. It says scatter to atoms.

 

[GarrixianXD]

destroy atoms to obliterate targets -- from the matter manipulation page
I'm not sure what's the disagreement is for?

There is no instances of atoms being destroyed here.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Keeping aside the whole atom manipulation thing shouldn't this qualify for soul destruction

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The only quote about atomic manipulation to be taken seriously is where Trunks chops Frieza into several parts and then atomizes him without leaving anything behind.

he repeatedly conducted planetary invasions, collecting the outstanding warriors from various planets. He sold the beautiful planets, and his hobby was collecting them. What's more, he acted as a land shark. Feared by his terrible band of followers, he was also the one who destroyed Planet Vegeta. He and his men came to Planet Namek, and there they were forced to suffer for the first time. Even after bringing in the superior squad known as the Ginyu Special Squad, the tide of battle worsened. During his battle with Vegeta, he voluntarily transformed for the first time. After transforming, he used much more power than he had before his transformation, and made Vegeta suffer severely, killing him cruelly after reaching his final form. As he defeated his opponents one after the other, he killed Kuririn, and was only surpassed by the Super Saiyan Goku. Although he died when Planet Namek was wiped out, he was revived as a mecha. But he was reduced to atoms by a boy who came from the future, coming to a miserable end. (Daizenshuu 2, pp.190-193)

What really happened in the work, Trunks turns Frieza into a steak and then vaporizes him



And Dragon Ball Super shows us the same thing, where Trunks is chopped up and vaporized so that there are no atoms left to tell the story



Sheylong reused Freeza when Trunks chopped him up, even before he was atomized by Trunks ( with his body all atomized Sheylong couldn't bring his body back, but he did before Trunks was atomized ).

 

[Deleted member 40688]

Molecular manipulation then!
Tear opponents apart by severing the molecular bonds that make up their bodies. --From wiki

 

[Omegabronic]

Piccolo never said that he will destroy Goku at the atomic level with a higher power.

he blasted Goku with pure power then he said that Goku was "blasted to atoms"

yes, yes he did

and even if he didn't, the fact that you can in fact reduce something to atoms with pure AP is still a thing

 

[Killerdrone123]

he blasted Goku with pure power then he said that Goku was "blasted to atoms"

yes, yes he did

and even if he didn't, the fact that you can in fact reduce something to atoms with pure AP is still a thing

That was a translation error luffy mentioned it above linking the thread

 

[Omegabronic]

Keeping aside the whole atom manipulation thing shouldn't this qualify for soul destruction

nah, at best resurrection negation, and even then the context and phrasing makes it more of using the limitation of needing a body to resurrect more than anything

 

[Omegabronic]

That was a translation error luffy mentioned it above linking the thread

i don't see that scan anywhere in the OP at all

the Genki Dama we know must have destroyed buu to a atomic level due to his regen making his come back even from vapor, so if you must you can use that example as well

regardless, example in verse or not, the point doesn't change, you can destroy someone to an atomic level with AP alone

 

[Killerdrone123]

nah, at best resurrection negation, and even then the context and phrasing makes it more of using the limitation of needing a body to resurrect more than anything

Here



When goku said this baby corrected goku and said don'tbe absurd saiyan he would make sure he doesn't live again

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the Genki Dama we know must have destroyed buu to a atomic level

"At last Boo is eradicated… every cell of his body obliterated completely…"
"Majin Boo has finally been wiped out…He has literally been completely wiped out, without even a single cell remaining…"
"ついに魔人ブウは消え去った･･････それは文字通り細胞ひとつ残さずかんぜん完全に消え去ったのである･･････" ("At last, Majin Buu had been vanquished… completely and utterly, leaving not a single cell behind…") (細胞, saibō = "cell") (消え去った, kiesatta = "to disappear; to vanish"; のである, nodearu = nominalizes previous phrase)

 

[Killerdrone123]

i don't see that scan anywhere in the OP at all

the Genki Dama we know must have destroyed buu to a atomic level due to his regen making his come back even from vapor, so if you must you can use that example as well

regardless, example in verse or not, the point doesn't change, you can destroy someone to an atomic level with AP alone

Here

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

Hey, hey, fanta here. Back again. Can somebody translate these pages? Controversial novel statements that are very important to a verse's scaling.

vsbattles.com

 

[Omegabronic]

Here



When goku said this baby corrected goku and said don'tbe absurd saiyan he would make sure he doesn't live again

.....yeah, i know, i was referencing that

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Here



When goku said this baby corrected goku and said don'tbe absurd saiyan he would make sure he doesn't live again

I will add

 

[Omegabronic]

@Nullflowerblush can't quote you in that comment, but it saying that it destroyed his cells doesn't really limit the destruction to just the cells, Buu regened from being reduced to vapor, merely destroying his cells won't stop him from regenerating back

 

[Nullflowerblush]

What really happened in the work, Trunks turns Frieza into a steak and then vaporizes him

How odd. Despite there being "no atoms left to tell the story", we can SEE FRIEZA'S SMOKING ASHES.

destroy atoms to obliterate targets -- from the matter manipulation page
I'm not sure what's the disagreement is for?

The disagreement exists because Baby is NOT destroying atoms, he claimed he could scatter Goku's atoms.
Which,

Atomization: Applied only if clearly stated. It describes the energy to separate all atoms in a chemical substance. The value is 30852.2 (J/cc).

yeah.

 

[Omegabronic]

Here

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

Hey, hey, fanta here. Back again. Can somebody translate these pages? Controversial novel statements that are very important to a verse's scaling.

vsbattles.com

thank you, but as i said, my point doesn't really change

 

[Chariot190]

I disagree because dog wtf

 

[Omegabronic]

How odd. Despite there being "no atoms left to tell the story", we can SEE FRIEZA'S SMOKING ASHES.

The disagreement exists because Baby is NOT destroying atoms, he claimed he could scatter Goku's atoms.
Which,

yeah.

btw this summarizes my point very well if anyone is in doubt of what it is

 

[Nullflowerblush]

but it saying that it destroyed his cells doesn't really limit the destruction to just the cells

Actually, "それは文字通り" (sore wa mojidōri) indicates that Majin Buu's destruction (the previous segment of the sentence) is literally as the second segment of the sentence clarifies; i.e., he only disappeared because the Super Spirit Bomb left behind not a single cell.

That, or the "literally" is a descriptor of his cells disappearing.
Either way, he was destroyed. That is, his cells were vanquished completely.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I disagree with Atomic Manipulation. That statement would just be AP.

I share sentiment on the matter. This can be done with AP and is more than likely a hyperbolic death threat.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I share sentiment on the matter. This can be done with AP and is more than likely a hyperbolic death threat.

About the hyperbole stuff i already refuted those parts anyway

 

[pineappleman]

This is the same attack that proceeded to affect Kibito Kai and Goku through the subspace and in the midst of instantaneous teleportation by the way, but apparently people find verbatim stated atomic manipulation too farfetched for it.