Removing Frisk's Resistance to Absorption + A minor Asgore fix

[StrymULTRA]

Original Thread here. Making this as the Staff didn't remotely read my arguments, so I'll make this CRT so they'll be forced to read them this time.

The thing is that Frisk has now resistance to Soul Absorption due to them apparentely not being affected from Photoshop Flowey trying to absorb their SOUL with the "light" (link on the profile is broken so here's the fixed one), which seems pretty clear on-paper... if you do not look at the context.

The thing has several problems:

• Flowey has planned in advance to take just the 6 Human SOULs and the Monsterkind ones to achieve his true form, he never has involved Frisk in this.
• Flowey said he planned to use the power of 7 SOULs to play with Frisk forever.
• He implied that he could take Frisk's SOUL if he wanted to when he was Photoshop Flowey.
• The light he used to absorb the SOULs can be manipulated, as it literally was used to knock a door. That wouldn't have happened if it was automatic.
• A human explicitly needs to be defeated in order to take their SOUL, so of course Frisk was not affected from this.
• And most importantly, Asriel never said anything about "Chara" resisting his supposed soul succ.

Basically the SOUL absorption resistance is bad and it must go.

The arguments against this were made in the thread I linked, and are pretty poor in themselves. Let's see them all:

• "Asriel planned to take Frisk's SOUL and then release it when his plan was achieved."

Asriel has never said he wanted Frisk's SOUL. He wanted only the power of 7 Human SOULs, and he got it thanks to 6 SOULs and all the monster's ones, which all together equate to the lacking 7th SOUL. He planned to take Frisk's SOUL only in the Photoshop Flowey fight when their soul was the 7th aviable at the moment, but in the Pacifist he never needed it, he had all means to make Frisk surrender, aka the godly power he'd get with the power of 7 SOULs.

Plus is a massive reaching to say that, he only wanted to beat up Frisk over and over until they surrender and their control of the timeline gets to Asriel as he would be the one with higher DT if he won. Not such complicated shit, he already had the power to TRUE RESET after all.

• "He could absorb the monsters without defeating them, meaning he'd be able to absorb Frisk's SOUL in a similar manner."

Monsters' SOULs are not like Human ones. They are physically linked to their bodies, and thus both body and SOUL disappears when they die, unlike the human ones which still exist after their death. And to extract a Monster's SOUL, you explicitly need an immense amount of power (which, guess what, it happened with Photoshop Flowey, given he has 6 SOULs). You can make an argument with him being able to extract Frisk's SOUL as well, and that would be correct, but he just didn't want to for the aforementioned reasons, given he did not need Frisk's SOUL at all for his plans, as he already was able to as Photoshop Flowey, yet he never did.

Bonus: Asgore has this on his profile:

Official promotional material suggests that Asgore killing Frisk is one possible outcome

That's not canon, so yeet that from his AP justification, thank you.

 

[ShionAH]

LOL

 

[StrymULTRA]

I told you I would do this if it gets through. There's nothing to lol-ing here.

 

[ShionAH]

I told you I would do this if it gets through. There's nothing to lol-ing here.

I know. Its funni, I agree with the Asgore part

I am neutral towards this. I gotta ask though since humans can only be absorbed after dying wouldn't that be a resistance anyway? (The wiki takes monsters as base)

 

[StrymULTRA]

I am neutral towards this. I gotta ask though since humans can only be absorbed after dying wouldn't that be a resistance anyway? (The wiki takes monsters as base)

I do not understand why they're treated as base then? I mean, souls from default are not reliant on the body, unlike the monsters' who explicitly are not.

So the human souls are baseline, not the monsters.

 

[ShionAH]

I do not understand why they're treated as base then? I mean, souls from default are not reliant on the body, unlike the monsters' who explicitly are not.

Pretty sure you need your soul to live in general



This seems to actually prove he cannot absorb frisk. He talks about his main goal being a god by absorbing 7 souls but instead of absorbing frisk he fights with them. Unless you are saying flowey is a idiot this means Frisk cannot be absorbed

 

[StrymULTRA]

Pretty sure you need your soul to live in general

That's your average soul in fiction. Not just Undertale's.

 

[ShionAH]

That's your average soul in fiction. Not just Undertale's.

Yes thats why Monster souls are baseline. They break after the body is gone unlike humans who have longevity on their souls.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Now downgrade Asriel's AP to Low 2-C
Anyway, seems pretty straightforward

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes thats why Monster souls are baseline. They break after the body is gone unlike humans who have longevity on their souls.

But souls in fiction do exactly what the human souls do. This is why Low Godly regen exist in the first place.

 

[ShionAH]

But souls in fiction do exactly what the human souls do. This is why Low Godly regen exist in the first place.

You do know this means no one in fiction can be soul absorbed unless they are defeated because their soul are like humans right?

 

[StrymULTRA]

You do know this means no one in fiction can be soul absorbed unless they are defeated because their soul are like humans right?

I mean, monsters explicitly have to kill humans first before getting their SOUL, so there's nothing wrong with this claim.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Monsters SOULs being the baseline is probably due to human SOULs being 8-B

 

[StrymULTRA]

Monsters SOULs being the baseline is probably due to human SOULs being 8-B

That's just about AP anyway given that soul and body for monsters is the same, if one dies, the other does as well, unlike humans whose soul can exist without the body,

 

[ShionAH]

I mean, monsters explicitly have to kill humans first before getting their SOUL, so there's nothing wrong with this claim.

Which means humans are resistant to soul absorbtion right? I don't think everyone in fiction has baseline resistance to soul absorbtion

 

[Shmooply]

Hard agree.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Which means humans are resistant to soul absorbtion right? I don't think everyone in fiction has baseline resistance to soul absorbtion

No, because the condition to absorb their soul is to kill them first. It's a weak hax, not a resistance from the humans,

 

[ShionAH]

No, because the condition to absorb their soul is to kill them first. It's a weak hax, not a resistance from the humans,

How do you know its a hax weakness and not a human resistance?

 

[ShionAH]

@Tural2004

We should wait for Tural

 

[StrymULTRA]

How do you know its a hax weakness and not a human resistance?

Is literally said that if a monster defeats a human they can take their soul, not that they can do that at whim.

 

[thetechmaster36]

I agree with this, especially on the account that a human must first be defeated in order for their SOUL to be taken and/or absorbed. At most, it would be limited resistance.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I agree with this, especially on the account that a human must first be defeated in order for their SOUL to be taken and/or absorbed. At most, it would be limited resistance.

Why even limited though :x

 

[ShionAH]

Is literally said that if a monster defeats a human they can take their soul, not that they can do that at whim.

"Monsters have to defeat the human to absorb them because humans are resistant"
"Monsters are so weak that they have to defeat the human to absorb their souls"

both of those work in the context

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Soul absorption shouldn't have been applied in the first place. Only crab agreed with it. I agreed with Roach and stayed neutral.

 

[ShionAH]

Why even limited though :x

Bro has a beef with this resistance

 

[StrymULTRA]

"Monsters have to defeat the human to absorb them because humans are resistant"
"Monsters are so weak that they have to defeat the human to absorb their souls"

both of those work in the context

Absolutely not. If a hax has a limitation in its applications, we rate that hax as limited, not because everyone in the verse has some unmentioned resistance.

But no, every human in UT has this secret resistance to absorption because we need to wank Undertale as hard as we can, right?

 

[ShionAH]

Absolutely not. If a hax has a limitation in its applications, we rate that hax as limited, not because everyone in the verse has some unmentioned resistance.

Humans souls are like thousand times stronger than monsters in general so.

But no, every human in UT has this secret resistance to absorption because we need to wank Undertale as hard as we can, right?

**** off

 

[StrymULTRA]

Humans souls are like thousand times stronger than monsters in general so.

Monsters' SOULs are weaker than baseline anyways, as they cannot exist without the physical body. That does not happen with your average soul.

 

[ShionAH]

Soul absorption shouldn't have been applied in the first place. Only crab agreed with it. I agreed with Roach and stayed neutral.

He was leaning towards agreeing so.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@ShionAH you were explicitly told only to add what was clearly accepted and not being debated. This resistance not only had no full staff support (being a controversial verse, only one agree is not enough), but it was still being debated.

Humans souls are like thousand times stronger than monsters in general so.

**** off

I suggest you cool it. You're already on thin ice.

 

[ShionAH]

Monsters' SOULs are weaker than baseline anyways, as they cannot exist without the physical body. That does not happen with your average soul.

I dont know enough about souls so I will stay neutral

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

He was leaning towards agreeing so.

That's not an agreement.

 

[Roachman40]

ngl I completely lost track of the original thread, I didnt even know absorption was added

 

[ShionAH]

I suggest you cool it. You're already on thin ice.

Sorry but getting called a wanker twice for no reason is just not fun.

@ShionAH you were explicitly told only to add what was clearly accepted and not being debated. This resistance not only had no full staff support (being a controversial verse, only one agree is not enough), but it was still being debated.

It can be removed from the profile. I read roachmans comment wrong while applying (I mixed it up.)

 

[ShionAH]

That's not an agreement.

My bad I read it wrong while adding it. (Mixed it up with aura and emphathic because brain hurty)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Anyways, Strym, you can ask the profile be opened to remove the resistance.

 

[ShionAH]

Anyways, Strym, you can ask the profile be opened to remove the resistance.

Isnt it already open?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Isnt it already open?

it shouldn't be imo, but if it's open, then even better

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyways, Strym, you can ask the profile be opened to remove the resistance.

What about the Asgore thing?

 

[ShionAH]

it shouldn't be imo, but if it's open, then even better

Pretty sure it is open still. Yeah I should ask dereck to close it

What about the Asgore thing?

Tell me when you remove the resistance