Reid VS Kenshiro (Re:Zero VS Fist of the North Star) (7-7-2)

[Robo432343]

you cannot be telling me Reid is better at reading an opponent than Kenshiro after reading Fezzih's post + this
- Information Analysis (Hokuto users such as Kasumi can see a martial art’s blind spot and perceive the split second in which the user focuses energy to throw an attack and use that knowledge to predict the attack, effectively negating the martial art as a whole. This martial art had no conventional blind spots the user could even punch and kick behind his back. Like Juza, Hokuto fighters can read a martial art so well that they can predict every move from it)
-Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction, Energy Projection, Information Analysis and Paralysis Inducement (With the Tenha Kassatsu, Kenshiro was able to hit Souther, despite being unable to touch Souther’s intangible body with his bare hands. The Tenha Kassatsu technique also allows its user to hit an opponent's pressure points without even making physical contact with them, and it’s able to reveal the locations of one's vital points. After being hit by the Tenha Kassatsu the victim becomes paralyzed)

• Information Analysis (Kaiser could see every possible blind spot an opponent has as dots which light up when said blind spot is available. Fodder bandits have an instinct that warns them when someone is stronger than them)
• Instinctive Action (Musou Insatsu allows the user to subconsciously read and attack the opponent. Ken is capable of unleashing a "subconscious strike". Raoh states that he fights without thinking. Kenshiro can instinctively use Hokuto Shinken and target an opponent's hidden attack in order to counter it, even though he was memory wiped to the point of not even remembering his name)

Maybe it's just me, but I feel with Ken's fate hax, stuff like this would go hand and hand. (Toki, with his sheer skill and talent, bent Raoh's fate and manifested his harbinger of death. conversely, those who experience his wrath are fated to die in accordance to the fact that the Big Dipper (IE, Hokuto) “presides over the fate of all living beings” and “governs death”)

Never mind the fact that Hokuto Ryuken users also have fate stuff going on and Ken also beats Kaioh who uses Hokuto Ryuken and is more powerful than Raoh, but it is similar to the Hokuto Shinken stuff tbf

ong bro
even technique mimicry is enough to solo the verse
it's stated multiple times in the series that Kenshiro just needs to see a martial art in action once to completely master it. Kasumi even says that this is what makes Hokuto Shinken the ultimate martial art, Hokuto users not only steal your martial art, they can instantly do it better than you and understand it on a much deeper level than you ever could, Kenshiro for example surpassed Solia's prowess in Gento Kō Ken, after only seeing a single move of said style. Other Hokuto fighters besides Kenshiro could also copy martial arts, Raoh for example, even before setting on his quest to summon all kenpo users, had already mastered almost every martial art. After starting his quest, Raoh goes out of his way to summon masters of all martial arts and “steal their secrets”. Kasumi Kenshiro copied Hokuto Sonka Ken's Ki manipulation to create the Tenha Kassatsu. And even Jagi, who is an absolute fodder compared to EOS Kenshiro, could copy a Nanto style)

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

snip

(I wish FANDOM wouldn't display images as blanks because oml I hate having to change the link slightly just so I can see the images)

 

[MasterOwOgay]

I dont think i know enough about fate hax aside from the absolute godly ones that can basically do everything but shouldn't the observers and stargazers also qualify for fate hax if this is the case?
I also read in another thread that Reid can bypass Reinhard's probability hax with skill. Assuming its better than Iihiko’s luck, couldnt Reid also bypass any fate hax?

 

[Robo432343]

I also read in another thread that Reid can bypass Reinhard's probability hax with skill. Assuming its better than Iihiko’s luck, couldnt Reid also bypass any fate hax?

yes thats why Reid>Reinhard

 

[Zabazab]

you cannot be telling me Reid is better at reading an opponent than Kenshiro after reading Fezzih's post + this

Reid abilityslop:

• Analytical Prediction (As the Sword Saint, like Theresia, he can predict his opponent's future attacks[32] from the stance they take, from where their eyes are trained, and from the very air that hangs above them, and can see, read, and feel paths of hostility[32] raining down upon him. Sword Saints see a floating white ray of battle that they need only trace with their blade to unquestionably kill their opponent.[32] He is unfathomably superior to Emilia who dodged a rain of arrows faster than her eyes could track by reading the shooters' intent[33]. Far superior to Old Wilhelm who, invisible or not, can anticipate his opponents attacks[8] by watching the movement of their eyes, feeling their hostility, reading how they breathe as they aim. He is superior to Cecilus, who is constantly aware of everything in his surroundings, analyzing other's physical abilities, conduct, and sounds,[26] to always have a grasp the positions of everyone and everything nearby. Unfathomably superior to Roswaal, who when faced with an invisible attack, cast out of sync with the caster's gaze and breathing, all with a feint attack added for good measure,[34] easily pinpointed and neutralized it)
• Information Analysis (Far superior to Grimm Fauzen, who could perfectly judge the speed and trajectory of Carol's attack,[3] and Kurgan, who can judge a person’s abilities at a glance.[35] As the Sword Saint, like Theresia, he can tell at a glance the strength of a person's muscles and bones,[35] as well as see white rays which show the optimal path to victory[32], as they can intuitively grasps their opponents most vulnerable points.[35] The Sword Saint can see flaws in even the most polished of fighting styles[32])
• Instinctive Action (Far above Garfiel Tinsel's level, where fights are immediate, with no delay between decision making and action[36], as even the slightest delay is exploited by their opponent.[36] Superior to Old Wilhelm, who has superhuman, god-like combat capabilities[8] that make it possible to dodge 30+ invisible arms– which even Julius, who can dodge invisible attacks on instinct, was unable to detect– just by reacting to the effect the arms had on the dirt in the air)

• Martial Arts & Attack Reflection (Reid is a master of martial arts.[4] He can use a technique that redirects the power of blunt attacks out of his body into the ground[11] or back at his opponent[20])
• Power Mimicry (As the most talented warrior to have ever lived, Reid would be a child of battle, a being that readily absorbs and uses[21] the martial techniques of others)
• Reactive Evolution (By merely stepping forth with the thought of performing an action, he can readily invent and realize a new style of doing so,[5] such as inventing an optimal gait for a situation. The same technique never works twice[22] on the likes of Elsa and Ley, who are unfathomably inferior to Reid)
• Pressure Points (With a kick, his nails dig into the gaps between internal organs,[23] causing intense pain. Caused a Witchbeast to explode with a light movement of his chopstick[14])
• Acrobatics & Free Movement (Hypermobility, All-Terrain Movement, Self-Momentum, & Surface-Running; Reid can run through a barrage of light-rays while carrying & beating another person with his chopsticks.[4] He can stand upside-down on,[5] and jump off of a block of ice. Superior to Reinhard, who can weave through a barrage of water droplets and grains of dirt, with each projectile being deadly, even in extreme close-quarters,[24] as well as run through a rainstorm while avoiding every raindrop.[25] He is superior to Cecilus, who as a child was able to; avoid numerous projectiles compared to[26] the raindrops in a storm or the grains in a sandstorm, with such precision that he could intentionally lead the projectiles to form[26] the shape of Tokyo Tower, maneuver through a collapsing building[27] while carrying another person, run on boiling magma,[28] use even a single grain of gravel, wood splinters, shards of glass, and even individual cinders of ash as a foothold[26] to leap off of, and run along a wall of ice[29] with ease)

Reid Skillslop:

Reid is the greatest swordsman recorded in history,[47] being dubbed "The Heavenly Sword". If longing for the uttermost sword power is envy for the Sword Saint, then longing for the uttermost sword technique is envy for the Heavenly Sword.[3] Reid has reached the pinnacle of swordplay; cutting intangible light, and cutting that which does not exist materially.[11] His skill is to such a level that a casual swing of his chopsticks is described as the most beautiful slash that can ever be performed, such that even an amateur would be stunned by it's beauty, this very slash cutting through the atmosphere, space and even concepts.[7] Reid has six thousand consecutive victories[48] in Ginunhive's Gladiator Arena. The difference between the likes of Cecilus Segmunt and the Heavenly Sword is considered akin to the gap between "finite" and "infinity".[26]

Reid's martial skill stands head-and-shoulders above Reinhard's, who is a natural genius[42] and a master of martial arts, swordsmanship, and countless other styles.[42] Reinhard's intuition is incredible, so even while taking a test, he’ll get full marks from answering normally, even if it’s not multiple choice.[49] Reinhard’s sword technique captures every ounce of performance that can be extracted by any weapon he uses, even a throwaway sword at its end of life, sleeping away in a cellar, shines like some treasured sword passed on by legend across generations.[50] Reinhard's swordsmanship is unparalleled even when compared to past Sword Saints such as Theresia van Astrea, who stood at the pinnacle of swordsmanship, and saw flaws in even the most polished fighting styles.[32] Wilhelm van Astrea stated that despite being able to surpass Theresia in swordsmanship, which is ordinarily impossible even with a lifetime or eternity of training,[51] Reinhard's skill is not even remotely in the realm of achievable,[52] in a different world from everyone and everything else. This same Wilhelm developed such sword skill that Theresia's ability to intuitively grasp her opponents most vulnerable point, and see white rays of battle which she need only trace to inevitably kill her opponent, had no effect on Wilhelm[32], as his superior skill caused Theresia's predictive rays to be constantly severed.

He is far beyond Cecilus's level of skill, a swordsman who by watching Al fight just a single time, was able to correctly guess that he possessed an Authority and what that Authority does through sheer intuition,[27] and his intuition also correctly informed him that killing too many Zombies would be a bad idea.[53] Cecilus is a transcendant being that stands at the top of the Nine Divine Generals, as a child he single-handedly defeated every soldier in a Vollachian Fortress with just his bare-hands, all while ensuring he didn't kill anyone,[45] and he was also able to weave through a rain of invisible sniper-fire by sheer guesswork.[27]

That very same Cecilus, who dreams of reaching the Heavenly Sword,[26] even as a child is constantly taking in information from his surroundings in order to grasp the location of everyone and everything nearby,[26] and his analysis of physicality and behaviour allows him to accurately predict the location of everyone in the vicinity without focusing on them. His mastery of the Flow Method allows him to actively control each and every one of his senses,[26] as well as accelerate his own thoughts in order to process the world in extreme slow-motion;[26] such that in the middle of avoiding a flurry of deadly projectiles, he was able to mull over his feelings regarding the current battle, cause a second Cecilus to be born from his accelerated thoughts,[26] conversate with the second Cecilus, and then battle with the second Cecilus to determine which will return to regular time as the true Cecilus.[26] His mental processing even allowed him to, upon wielding a sword for the very first time, train with the blade for days upon days within his mind, swinging it hundreds of millions of times, all within a fraction of a second in reality,[26] and then utilize the fruits of his efforts immediately in combat.

Other far less skilled individuals can; can brush off magic which severs all of their senses[54] with skill, fight even with all of their senses severed,[55] react to and dodge invisible attacks on instinct,[56] and easily deflect countless attacks with sheer battle instinct.[50]

 

[VortechsTG]

you cannot be telling me Reid is better at reading an opponent than Kenshiro after reading Fezzih's post + this
- Information Analysis (Hokuto users such as Kasumi can see a martial art’s blind spot and perceive the split second in which the user focuses energy to throw an attack and use that knowledge to predict the attack, effectively negating the martial art as a whole. This martial art had no conventional blind spots the user could even punch and kick behind his back. Like Juza, Hokuto fighters can read a martial art so well that they can predict every move from it)
-Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction, Energy Projection, Information Analysis and Paralysis Inducement (With the Tenha Kassatsu, Kenshiro was able to hit Souther, despite being unable to touch Souther’s intangible body with his bare hands. The Tenha Kassatsu technique also allows its user to hit an opponent's pressure points without even making physical contact with them, and it’s able to reveal the locations of one's vital points. After being hit by the Tenha Kassatsu the victim becomes paralyzed)

• Information Analysis (Kaiser could see every possible blind spot an opponent has as dots which light up when said blind spot is available. Fodder bandits have an instinct that warns them when someone is stronger than them)
• Instinctive Action (Musou Insatsu allows the user to subconsciously read and attack the opponent. Ken is capable of unleashing a "subconscious strike". Raoh states that he fights without thinking. Kenshiro can instinctively use Hokuto Shinken and target an opponent's hidden attack in order to counter it, even though he was memory wiped to the point of not even remembering his name)

ong bro
even technique mimicry is enough to solo the verse
it's stated multiple times in the series that Kenshiro just needs to see a martial art in action once to completely master it. Kasumi even says that this is what makes Hokuto Shinken the ultimate martial art, Hokuto users not only steal your martial art, they can instantly do it better than you and understand it on a much deeper level than you ever could, Kenshiro for example surpassed Solia's prowess in Gento Kō Ken, after only seeing a single move of said style. Other Hokuto fighters besides Kenshiro could also copy martial arts, Raoh for example, even before setting on his quest to summon all kenpo users, had already mastered almost every martial art. After starting his quest, Raoh goes out of his way to summon masters of all martial arts and “steal their secrets”. Kasumi Kenshiro copied Hokuto Sonka Ken's Ki manipulation to create the Tenha Kassatsu. And even Jagi, who is an absolute fodder compared to EOS Kenshiro, could copy a Nanto style)

I don't think I can really do justice to his ability to predict but Ley is a skill God in his own right who has layers upon layers of prediction and resisting prediction and yet Ram can still read his moves "with greater ease than reading the mind" before he even begins to think of what his next action may be. And Ram is still nowhere near Reid’s level.

High level martial artists in ReZero can instantly copy techniques and use them better than their opponent and still never be able to begin to even dream of reaching the Heavenly sword. It is a dream within a dream that every martial artist aims for but only Reid has ever reached. It's not something that can simply be mimicked.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I also read in another thread that Reid can bypass Reinhard's probability hax with skill. Assuming its better than Iihiko’s luck, couldnt Reid also bypass any fate hax?

I don't even know if Reinhard's probability stuff is even better than even the abnormal's luck (but that's for another day)

 

[Fezzih_007]

Not really. They're just skilled in different areas.

Not sure what i said is incorrect, since i am refering in combat skill in close range.
Like, I saying Reid is inferior in most areas than Ken, and If they fight in close range, Ken would be on top for the majority of fights that could have.

The range is admittedly a big help but even that comes from his skill sooooo uh...

I would say that splitting clouds is more a strenght feat than a skill one, but yeah sure.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I don't even know if Reinhard's probability stuff is even better than even the abnormal's luck (but that's for another day)

I would say that making somebody's attack change direction is a better feat than making them think "hmmm, maybe i will use smth else this time"

 

[Robo432343]

wait
isn't Reid's conceptual manip getting a downgrade?

Another Reid downgrade

Continuation of this thread. It seems like this either wasn't applied despite being accepted or it got added again for the same shitty reasons to be frank. Right now Reid has CM Type 2 via bringing in the concept of the "sword", however I still fail to see how this is Type 2 Conceptual...

vsbattles.com

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

wait
isn't Reid's conceptual manip getting a downgrade?

Another Reid downgrade

Continuation of this thread. It seems like this either wasn't applied despite being accepted or it got added again for the same shitty reasons to be frank. Right now Reid has CM Type 2 via bringing in the concept of the "sword", however I still fail to see how this is Type 2 Conceptual...

vsbattles.com

That got cancelled because of Od Laguna physiology, so no

 

[Zabazab]

wait
isn't Reid's conceptual manip getting a downgrade?

Thread already ended pretty sure. He's getting updated too.

Reid Astrea Profile Changes

Made a sandbox for a shiny new Reid profile. Some abilities have been added, some have been removed, and his intelligence section is bigger now. Old Profile New Profile Sandbox That's about it. Let me know if I should edit it at all, thank you.

vsbattles.com

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

wait
isn't Reid's conceptual manip getting a downgrade?

Another Reid downgrade

Continuation of this thread. It seems like this either wasn't applied despite being accepted or it got added again for the same shitty reasons to be frank. Right now Reid has CM Type 2 via bringing in the concept of the "sword", however I still fail to see how this is Type 2 Conceptual...

vsbattles.com

Okay, now we're just reaching

 

[Lynieryz]

Concept manipulation cannot interact with NEP without having evidence about it, and the only evidence was someone linking about CM being metaphysical???This isn't evidence; it's just the literal definition of anything related to concepts.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Concept manipulation cannot interact with NEP without having evidence about it, and the only evidence was someone linking about CM being metaphysical???This isn't evidence; it's just the literal definition of anything related to concepts.

Watch Reid cut the concept of ken's existence

 

[Robo432343]

Watch Reid cut the concept of ken's existence

he would need to cut NEP to do that

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

he would need to cut NEP to do that

Yeah i know

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

NEP needs to have the concept aspect nonexistent (that being aspect type 2)

Concept hax being a metaphysical hax would render being physically nonexistent irrelevant

 

[VortechsTG]

Concept manipulation cannot interact with NEP without having evidence about it, and the only evidence was someone linking about CM being metaphysical???This isn't evidence; it's just the literal definition of anything related to concepts.

The evidence given is that he cut an object which doesn't exist. I have no idea how you missed that.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I was going to bring what Twellas brought up in the Kenshiro VS Naruto thread. But since Reid can cut space time from what I can see, So I doubt it would matter.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I was going to bring what Twellas brought up in the Kenshiro VS Naruto thread. But since Reid can cut space time from what I can see, So I doubt it would matter.

He actually described Mt to be similar to Lions heart which Reid explicitly can cut in verse
Just more evidence for why Reid is the goat

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

With all this being said. I legit don't know who I would even vote for still, it is that close of a match. (Well, to me at least.) I'm thinking Incon tbh

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

With all this being said. I legit don't know who I would even vote for still, it is that close of a match. (Well, to me at least.) I'm thinking Incon tbh

Make it balanced, vote for reid 6-6 gg

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Kenshiro skill wank is strong but is it stronger than the wank of the ReZero pages?

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

For all the arguments given in this thread. I have decided to go for incon. Both seem equally skilled and both have multiple ways of just finishing each other off for good. (No, I am not buying the entire Reid cannot affect Muso Tensei thing because Kenshiro is still there conceptually).

 

[VortechsTG]

For all the arguments given in this thread. I have decided to go for incon. Both seem equally skilled and both have multiple ways of just finishing each other off for good. (No, I am not buying the entire Reid cannot affect Muso Tensei thing because Kenshiro is still there conceptually).

You do still need to change the distance though.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Changed the distance to 20 meters, hope this helps

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Predicting that this thread will now get to 10 pages of sheer skill slop

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Since fight conditions have been changed people will now need to revote
Voting Reid for

1. better precog
2. power mimicry resistance and his own adaption and power mimicry
3. cm based AoE that will one shot
4. the ability to dodge all of Ken's attack, while he cant do the same

Btw, running 20 meters is still slower than swinging your sword

 

[Robo432343]

reid does not have better precog than kenshiro or adaption
get outta here with that shi

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Still incon for me lowkey. And I think the Precog actually has even better chances working here for Ken then it did at a 4km distance. Because the fights can straight up play in there heads before it happens (see Raoh VS Rei)

(Also Ken has like, four different types of precog via Hokuto Shinken, Muso Tensei, Nanto, Hokuto Ryuken. Just thought I'd mention that.)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

reid does not have better precog than kenshiro or adaption
get outta here with that shi

As i stated above, the feats you showed have all been performed by characters who are infinitely below Reid's skill level and reaching the heavenly sword is impossible for characters that are already an eternity of training above them.

Still incon for me lowkey. And I think the Precog actually has even better chances working here for Ken then it did at a 4km distance. Because the fights can straight up play in there heads before it happens (see Raoh VS Rei)

I already mentioned this before but Cecilus did much more than just thinking 2 steps ahead
he straight up :
1. predicted the entire fight
2. Had the time to fight himself
3, stole his own sword from his adults self (in his mind btw)
4. Mulled over the entire fight
5. Swing a sword hundreds of millions of times in the span of him touching a sword
6. Saw light move at a snails pace in his MH+ key

(Also Ken has like, four different types of precog via Hokuto Shinken, Muso Tensei, Nanto, Hokuto Ryuken. Just thought I'd mention that.)

Reid has all of that and more

 

[Robo432343]

Reid will passively collapse from Kens aura
change the distance

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Reid will passively collapse from Kens aura
change the distance

Wtf no he won't. Pretty sure Reid's handled some insane auras before, he can handle it.

 

[VortechsTG]

Voting for Reid for better analytical prediction and intuition, better mobility and dodging skills that can dodge what is physically impossible to dodge, being able to think so fast that he can run years worth of simulations in an instant, and huge aoe attacks that can one-shot.

 

[Robo432343]

As i stated above, the feats you showed have all been performed by characters who are infinitely below Reid's skill level and reaching the heavenly sword is impossible for characters that are already an eternity of training above them.

I already mentioned this before but Cecilus did much more than just thinking 2 steps ahead
he straight up :
1. predicted the entire fight
2. Had the time to fight himself
3, stole his own sword from his adults self (in his mind btw)
4. Mulled over the entire fight
5. Swing a sword hundreds of millions of times in the span of him touching a sword
6. Saw light move at a snails pace in his MH+ key


Reid has all of that and more

Reid doesn't have precognition on his profile

 

[Robo432343]

Wtf no he won't. Pretty sure Reid's handled some insane auras before, he can handle it.

resistance to status effect is not on Reid's profile
- Status Effect Inducement (Ken’s aura causes an army of people to collapse)

 

[VortechsTG]

resistance to status effect is not on Reid's profile
- Status Effect Inducement (Ken’s aura causes an army of people to collapse)

If that counts as a status effect than so ******* many ReZero characters would have that

 

[Robo432343]

If that counts as a status effect than so ******* many ReZero characters would have that

yes
currently Ken stomps coz resistance to status effect isn't on their profile
if you make a CRT for it and it gets accepted then we can have a fair match

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

yes
currently Ken stomps coz resistance to status effect isn't on their profile
if you make a CRT for it and it gets accepted then we can have a fair match

I understand Reid being able to at least feel Ken's aura, but he's not gonna collapse from it.